Lip Man 1 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Let's take the Sox front office at face value when they say they are going to be competitive next year. (That doesn't even mean by the way that they'll even have a winning record...) OK...to be "competitive" this is what they appear to need: Catcher 2nd base Right Field at least 2 starting pitchers 3 bullpen arms A closer Maybe a new shortstop Now how anybody thinks they can do this with a reduced payroll and a mediocre/poor farm system is beyond my limited intelligence. But that's what they are going to try to continue to sell the fan base...that and "hoping" things work out. Odds are really, really, really small of that happening. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: Let's take the Sox front office at face value when they say they are going to be competitive next year. (That doesn't even mean by the way that they'll even have a winning record...) OK...to be "competitive" this is what they appear to need: Catcher 2nd base Right Field at least 2 starting pitchers 3 bullpen arms A closer Maybe a new shortstop Now how anybody thinks they can do this with a reduced payroll and a mediocre/poor farm system is beyond my limited intelligence. But that's what they are going to try to continue to sell the fan base...that and "hoping" things work out. Odds are really, really, really small of that happening. It’s turn back the clock year. They will find some old and hurt guys like Jimmy Rollins, Brett Lawrie, Austin Jackson, and dinner Navarro p, and call themselves a contender. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuban_sammiches Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Kevin Plawecki, Jonathan Schoop and Dexter Fowler are available...see you at the parade. --- Rick Hahn (probably) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: It’s turn back the clock year. They will find some old and hurt guys like Jimmy Rollins, Brett Lawrie, Austin Jackson, and dinner Navarro p, and call themselves a contender. Dioner…although Dinner might be more appropriate in retirement now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 It will be great. We've hit bottom, now it's time to rebuild. New faces, new stories. It's a return to 2017 when we had a highly rated farm system. This front office did it once, they can do it again. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontierDayz Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 All good points Lip....'24 appears doomed even before '23 crashes and burns....another point could be added to your list, Sox need GM and Manager...can't listen to either any more...particularly post game comments by Grifol...what he'd say after another debacle this time at Wrigley...Nice day to play two...whatever baseball acumen he possessed at KC if any was lost on the flight to Chicago.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) The team also has a massive hole at third base. Moncada simply can't hit. Last night he came up to bat 3 times with men on base and did nothing, I wasn't surprised. The only reason why he's on the team is because of his big contract. If he didn't have the big money contract he would be gone. The Cubs released Jason Heywood this past off season. They ate his big contract. The White Sox should have done the same thing with Moncada. We're stuck with Moncada for another year. Hahn traded Tatis Jr, Madrigal and Burger. If they hadn't been traded this team would look alot better. Its bad enough they were traded but they received nothing in return for them. I remember during the 2017 season Hahn traded David Robertson to the Yankees for absolutely nothing. Some people said that he saved the team money by trading him. The problem with that arguement is look at the millions of dollars Hahn has spent and wasted on players who never produced. Its almost as if Hahn is destroying the team intentionally. Edited August 17, 2023 by WBWSF 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Texsox said: It will be great. We've hit bottom, now it's time to rebuild. New faces, new stories. It's a return to 2017 when we had a highly rated farm system. This front office did it once, they can do it again. Not if they’re trying to compete and not focused on rebuilding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 The Sox should be the overwhelming favorites to finish last in the Central next season. The Tigers have been better all year, and the Royals are starting to show some juice: when young players come together, improvement happens quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Its only sobering if you were buying what the FO was selling. Which, if you’ve followed this team for any period of time, you really should know better. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Statistically and emotionally, we are not a sober fanbase. But to answer the question: They're fucked They should have sold off Cease, TA, and (I guess?) Bummer But here we go! Catcher Free Agents you could try and sign as a bridge to Quero: Gary Sánchez, Yan Gomes, Victor Caratini, Martin Maldonado Internal: The second Seby is healthy, Grandal needs to be DFA'd so Korey Lee can get some big league burn to see if he can be a big league backup. But Pedro's whole "won't sacrifice wins" schtick is fucking stupid. Second Base Literally just play Sosa the end of this season. Stop playing Andrus. This is catastrophically stupid. See what you've got in a young player that always performs after he adjusts to each level. Otherwise I guess there's Adam Frazier. Right Field This is Colas. Young players don't develop if you jettison them. Starting Pitchers With his current Angels performance, Giolito might be the best bet. Then take a shot at Montgomery, Lorenzen, Wacha, Nola, etc. - the B-tier of pitchers. Closer Pretty clear this is Santos. Last night was his worst night - you can let a rookie closer build stamina and confidence heading into year two. Bullpen arms Please don't spend heavy. Please don't spend heavy. I'm willing to give Jordan Leasure and his 14.4K/9 more than 5 innings at a new level to prove he can get in there. Otherwise, see what you can put together. Shortstop This is clearly TA and they're hoping for a bounceback to bridge to Montgomery. They should have punted 2024 and waited till 2025 to see if Montgomery, Ramos, Sosa, Rodriguez and the new acquisitions could be ready, but nooooooo, "compete in 2024." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) This isn't really news to most people that honestly assesed the trade deadline commentary. They aren't competing next year. They don't have the upper level depth or impact in the minors. It's going to be another season of hoping they bolster the farm and develop some players as the big league club flounders. Edited August 17, 2023 by DirtySox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Quin said: Statistically and emotionally, we are not a sober fanbase. But to answer the question: They're fucked They should have sold off Cease, TA, and (I guess?) Bummer But here we go! Catcher Free Agents you could try and sign as a bridge to Quero: Gary Sánchez, Yan Gomes, Victor Caratini, Martin Maldonado Internal: The second Seby is healthy, Grandal needs to be DFA'd so Korey Lee can get some big league burn to see if he can be a big league backup. But Pedro's whole "won't sacrifice wins" schtick is fucking stupid. Second Base Literally just play Sosa the end of this season. Stop playing Andrus. This is catastrophically stupid. See what you've got in a young player that always performs after he adjusts to each level. Otherwise I guess there's Adam Frazier. Right Field This is Colas. Young players don't develop if you jettison them. Starting Pitchers With his current Angels performance, Giolito might be the best bet. Then take a shot at Montgomery, Lorenzen, Wacha, Nola, etc. - the B-tier of pitchers. Closer Pretty clear this is Santos. Last night was his worst night - you can let a rookie closer build stamina and confidence heading into year two. Bullpen arms Please don't spend heavy. Please don't spend heavy. I'm willing to give Jordan Leasure and his 14.4K/9 more than 5 innings at a new level to prove he can get in there. Otherwise, see what you can put together. Shortstop This is clearly TA and they're hoping for a bounceback to bridge to Montgomery. They should have punted 2024 and waited till 2025 to see if Montgomery, Ramos, Sosa, Rodriguez and the new acquisitions could be ready, but nooooooo, "compete in 2024." Gomes is a guy I would like them to target at catcher but he has a $6 million team option that should be picked up by the Cubs. I was thinking Austin Hedges as a backup to Korey Lee. Basically no bat but great defensively. It makes no sense that Sosa isn't here playing every day. These games are meaningless. Lose with rookies gaining experience over losing with old veterans on their way out. Edited August 17, 2023 by Bob Sacamano 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said: Gomes is a guy I would like them to target at catcher but he has a $6 million team option that should be picked up by the Cubs. I was thinking Austin Hedges as a backup to Korey Lee. Basically no bat but great defensively. It makes no sense that Sosa isn't here playing every day. These games are meaningless. Lose with rookies gaining experience over old veterans on their way out. At least we're getting to see it with Schlotens, Colas, Remillard, Ramsey, and others (who aren't performing hot). And while not rookies, Touki and Honeywell are getting auditions for their spots. But Lee (give me defense! and power!) and Sosa ... there's no reason to keep Andrus or Yaz. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 The Sox just did a total teardown and tank job. They have jack s%*# to show for it except two first round exits in the playoffs. Another teardown is a foll's errand as long as JR is the owner and the front office remains the same. The Sox do not have the brains nor the infrastructure to successfully tank and rebuild. The only way forward is going back to the 2006 through 2016 model. Load up on cheap veteran contracts and trade away some young bucks in the minors and hope for the best. There is no other way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 This seems like a “no duh” type of thing. The front office can say whatever they want, but I doubt even the biggest homer Sox fans believe it. Clearly the team stinks and there’s 0 path out anytime soon. Rebuild the rebuild and maybe we get lucky and Jerry is no longer the owner in 3-5 years. Might be able to push for a playoff run by then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: The Sox just did a total teardown and tank job. They have jack s%*# to show for it except two first round exits in the playoffs. Another teardown is a foll's errand as long as JR is the owner and the front office remains the same. The Sox do not have the brains nor the infrastructure to successfully tank and rebuild. The only way forward is going back to the 2006 through 2016 model. Load up on cheap veteran contracts and trade away some young bucks in the minors and hope for the best. There is no other way. Ok, so the first option resulted in Two first round exits Trading away Madrigal, Dunning, Heuer, Narvaez The second option resulted in Missing the playoffs as the World Series favorite Trading away Tatis, Bassitt, Semien, Escobar, Montas, and Thompson One first round exit What the s%*#? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Quin said: At least we're getting to see it with Schlotens, Colas, Remillard, Ramsey, and others (who aren't performing hot). And while not rookies, Touki and Honeywell are getting auditions for their spots. But Lee (give me defense! and power!) and Sosa ... there's no reason to keep Andrus or Yaz. Yeah they do have some interesting former top 100 guys, like you mention, in the pen. Will be nice when Leasure gets a look at some point and hopefully Garcia and Patino as well. Edited August 17, 2023 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Quin said: Ok, so the first option resulted in Two first round exits Trading away Madrigal, Dunning, Heuer, Narvaez The second option resulted in Missing the playoffs as the World Series favorite Trading away Tatis, Bassitt, Semien, Escobar, Montas, and Thompson One first round exit What the s%*#? The first option also resulted in years of tanking and completely unwatchable baseball. 2006 through 2016 wasn't much fun either but at least there was a few seasons where the Sox made the playoffs and/or were still playing meaningful baseball in September. 2005 was also a sort of rebuild on the fly season and the Sox were longshots to win the World Series that year. Tanking will never ever work as long as JR is the owner and RH is the GM. Catching lightining in a bottle is the only way for them to have any chance for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said: The first option also resulted in years of tanking and completely unwatchable baseball. 2006 through 2016 wasn't much fun either but at least there was a few seasons where the Sox made the playoffs and/or were still playing meaningful baseball in September. 2005 was also a sort of rebuild on the fly season and the Sox were longshots to win the World Series that year. Tanking will never ever work as long as JR is the owner and RH is the GM. Catching lightining in a bottle is the only way for them to have any chance for now. Yep, we will definitely see some sort of patchwork roster next year. Find the 2 most likely free agent starters to sign for one year, about $10-$15 mill and there's your rotation, along with Cease, Kopech and Touki/starter from minors. And I bet Rick Hahn is just licking his lips at the thought of spending large dollar amounts on a reliever or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 If they're not cutting payroll, Nola fits the Benintendi mold of a guy they loved in the draft that becomes available. If they are cutting payroll, then obviously Nola is out of their price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said: The first option also resulted in years of tanking and completely unwatchable baseball. 2006 through 2016 wasn't much fun either but at least there was a few seasons where the Sox made the playoffs and/or were still playing meaningful baseball in September. 2005 was also a sort of rebuild on the fly season and the Sox were longshots to win the World Series that year. Tanking will never ever work as long as JR is the owner and RH is the GM. Catching lightining in a bottle is the only way for them to have any chance for now. 2007, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 were all horrendous. The bolded in particular were particularly unwatchable laughingstocks. At least 2017, 2018 and 2019 had young guys to follow. Then 2020 and 2021 were fun as s%*# until Ricky and LaRussa got embarrassed in the playoffs. And 2005 wasn't rebuilding on the fly. They started in 2004 with the Freddy and Contreras trades, building off of a strong 2000 farm system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 8 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: Let's take the Sox front office at face value when they say they are going to be competitive next year. (That doesn't even mean by the way that they'll even have a winning record...) OK...to be "competitive" this is what they appear to need: Catcher 2nd base Right Field at least 2 starting pitchers 3 bullpen arms A closer Maybe a new shortstop Now how anybody thinks they can do this with a reduced payroll and a mediocre/poor farm system is beyond my limited intelligence. But that's what they are going to try to continue to sell the fan base...that and "hoping" things work out. Odds are really, really, really small of that happening. Also if the current shortstop is still in Chicago next year they will still need a new shortstop if they want to be competitive. Among the other massive issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 It will be worse if they try to compete in 2024. Will be same results as 2013-2016. Robert and Cease are the two legitimate pieces, have a couple other good players and that is it. Need a new FO, assess what they have during 2024, make adjustments, acquire prospects, attempt to legitimately compete for the first time since 2005 in 2026. If they keep Hahn and or Clevinger, I'll take another sabbatical away from White Sox baseball. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 And don’t worry, I’m sure the guys who will be relied upon to be the core will stay healthy and productive all year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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