WestEddy Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Odd rumblings of Jesus Luzardo and Framber Valdez being looked at by teams needing pitching. I'm wondering if that's just smoke being thrown up by teams seeing if they can create the illusion of more market supply to bring down the price of Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Odd rumblings of Jesus Luzardo and Framber Valdez being looked at by teams needing pitching. I'm wondering if that's just smoke being thrown up by teams seeing if they can create the illusion of more market supply to bring down the price of Cease. Probably. I don't see why MIA or HOU for that matter would move either of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Probably. I don't see why MIA or HOU for that matter would move either of those guys. In the same way questions about Bieber health and the difficulties of getting Burnes to extend. Works both ways. Doesn't make sense for Astros to do a teardown with their current roster and salary commitments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 The Braves are going to need those young pitchers...beyond the ones they alteady dumped off on the White Sox. "Frankly, I think the Braves are entering a sneaky period of pitching vulnerability and are about a year behind the 2024 Dodgers in this regard. They haven’t played in the free agent market, partly because they haven’t needed to but partly by design, and that frugality could be a 2025 and beyond issue. Fried is likely gone next year, Morton will retire at some point and has been declining, and Elder had a 17% K rate. You really have to buy Smith-Shawver to think this will be ok without a legitimate FA signing soon. Then you have the high likelihood of a Strider UCL with how hard he throws the ball." from fangraphs comment boards...following citing miserable lack of Sox replacement fWAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 23 hours ago, Heads22 said: I'll say that Dylan's held up healthwise far better than most and that should be worth something. Cease leads MLB in starts since he debuted in the majors. I don't believe he's missed a single turn through the rotation. He gets nitpicked constantly for the 5ish inning starts, but him always taking the ball isn't something that's talked about enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 It's been oddly quiet, for the White Sox in general, not just Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 As for Atlanta and pitching, didn't Spencer Strider already have had UCL surgery already? They seem to be lacking pitching depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: As for Atlanta and pitching, didn't Spencer Strider already have had UCL surgery already? They seem to be lacking pitching depth. Yes but the second/revision ones are becoming more and more common. Ohtani and his agent still won't agree that it was a reconstruction like his first procedure. 2019 Clemson https://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/before-and-after-how-braves-spencer-strider-evolved-after-tommy-john-surgery/ZYEZSP2U2FHARBJ7I6Q5KM55D4/ Edited December 16, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 It appears that coming back from second TJS surgery is much less common than the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: It appears that coming back from second TJS surgery is much less common than the first. We can get them back 85% of the time after the first one. Less than 40% after the second. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: It appears that coming back from second TJS surgery is much less common than the first. Especially starting pitchers. Everything points to Ohtani having 3-4 years left, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Especially starting pitchers. Everything points to Ohtani having 3-4 years left, period. If he gets back to his prior level of function. Definitely not guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 Shane McClanahan may have difficulty coming back with his violent pitching motion. Dylan Cease had one as well, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 35 minutes ago, ptatc said: We can get them back 85% of the time after the first one. Less than 40% after the second. Why is this the case after a second surgery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, ron883 said: Why is this the case after a second surgery? Some of it has to do with the age of some of the guys having a 2nd one. Ptatc can handle the medical reasons. There's only so much wear and tear human joints and muscles can endure before they are permanently weakened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 4 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Probably. I don't see why MIA or HOU for that matter would move either of those guys. I can see why: to stay ahead of things. To keep the org fresh. Their farm system is less than exemplary at this point. Probably a smart move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 57 minutes ago, ron883 said: Why is this the case after a second surgery? Much of it is that if they haven't changed their mechanics or pitch selection after the first they just cause too much damage. The other is the the reconstruction necessitates drilling and boring out of bone and it's really tough to get a good anchor for the second. With the newer augmentation devices the second one should have better results but we haven't done them enough to get a good sample size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Snowy Demon said: Shane McClanahan may have difficulty coming back with his violent pitching motion. Dylan Cease had one as well, right? Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 Russell Dorsey was on Foul Territory today and he said everything he’s heard is the Sox are desperate to get a lot of pitching back in any Cease trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 Just now, fathom said: Russell Dorsey was on Foul Territory today and he said everything he’s heard is the Sox are desperate to get a lot of pitching back in any Cease trade. Yeah who cares about offense! It’s not like you need that to win any games or anything! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 Just now, fathom said: Russell Dorsey was on Foul Territory today and he said everything he’s heard is the Sox are desperate to get a lot of pitching back in any Cease trade. Sigh.... I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, fathom said: Russell Dorsey was on Foul Territory today and he said everything he’s heard is the Sox are desperate to get a lot of pitching back in any Cease trade. Pitching is the most important part of the game. While they have Montgomery and Ramos who look really good for position players, I'm not sure they have that with pitchers. Of course this is coming from the person who ruined the team in 2022 by insisting they had enough offense. Edited December 16, 2023 by ptatc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, fathom said: Russell Dorsey was on Foul Territory today and he said everything he’s heard is the Sox are desperate to get a lot of pitching back in any Cease trade. Suppose it would make some sense why the Braves keep being mentioned as "favorites" then, despite me thinking that that's an extremely dumb use of resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said: Suppose it would make some sense why the Braves keep being mentioned as "favorites" then, despite me thinking that that's an extremely dumb use of resources. Braves and Reds, whereas Orioles don’t have the pitching to give up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 21 minutes ago, fathom said: Braves and Reds, whereas Orioles don’t have the pitching to give up Correct, I'd much prefer bats that you could plug in every day into your lineup over a pitching based return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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