Sox trade Cristian Mena to Arizona for OF Dominic Fletcher

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Well then Fletcher can slide to CF in that theoretical scenario and his lack of power is less concerning. We’re dealing with like a quarter deck of cards here as far as 25-26 and beyond are concerned. 

There’s a decent chance Robert isn’t on the team to start the 2025 season so Fletcher fits both a short term need (RF) and long term need (CF).

[ron883]

Getz is getting good defenders so that Cease looks good and can be traded at the deadline. Real life picture of Getz at work. 

[Chicago White Sox]

56 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's a trade to solve RF now and OF depth , future 4th OF, backup CF and another LH bat with enough hitting, pop, defense and OBP potential because the Sox were woefully short on all those things. That's a lot of things the Sox needed immediately and for the next 6 years.

I don't know if you are overestimating Mena or underestimating just how little talent and money Getz has to work with now.

No doubt the OF is a problem, but we also need a ton of pitching for the next six years is my point.  And if I were trading a prospect like Mena, I’d prefer a younger, higher variance OF prospect who offers more ceiling and better fits the timeline.  But your point on “just how little talent” Getz has to work is the key thing here.  We have limited prospect currency and just traded one of our better ones to improve our major league OF depth when we’re still a few years out from winning.  This is simply not how I would have utilized my resources and it’s the not player I personally would have targeted.  But the good news is I’m not a major league GM or scout and don’t have the knowledge of the player that Barfield does, so hopefully my read here is wrong and this works out well.

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…we have a surplus of SP?  I’m going to need you to walk me through that because by my count we don’t have a single SP who is controllable beyond the 2025 season and we have two pitching prospects who are generally considered to be 50 FV or above.  I think there are quite a few 40 to 45 FV arms who could ascend upwards in the coming years, but I wouldn’t use the word “surplus” to describe of collection of pitching prospects.  And Mena is a part of that second tier and certainly has question marks…I have never once said otherwise.  I just think we need a mass of prospects with MOR ceilings or above to eventually fill out a rotation and he was part of that numbers game.

And feeling like a 100 plate appearance sample size has any real predictive value is humorous to me, especially when the batted ball data suggests he got super lucky.  Regardless, that’s besides the point.  I don’t like the move because I think the upside of Fletcher is limited and I don’t see how it moves the needle enough to actually accelerate things.  Never once did I say Fletcher was a bad player or should come free, so no idea why you’re making that jab.  Ultimately, I want to win a championship and not just win a crappy AL Central and trading a 21 year arm with some upside for a lower ceiling, 26 year old, platoon RF when the rest of puzzle won’t be ready for a few years screams the latter.

Ho hum. 

You're making a bunch of assertions, then backing off of them, so it's like you want to complain about this trade for engagement, but you don't really want to own any of the things you're typing. 

I'm not sure how you find the phrase "surplus of pitching" funny, how you asserted all along that Mena has question marks, and is only in the "2nd tier" of a laughable collection of .... ha-ha, get this .... starting pitchers!! LOL. ... but we can't trade a guy who is in the 2nd tier of a bunch of laughable "pitching prospects", because he's part of a numbers game. 

You're playing word games. But hey, that's besides the point. 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

No doubt the OF is a problem, but we also need a ton of pitching for the next six years is my point.  And if I were trading a prospect like Mena, I’d prefer a younger, higher variance OF prospect who offers more ceiling and better fits the timeline.  But your point on “just how little talent” Getz has to work is the key thing here.  We have limited prospect currency and just traded one of our better ones to improve our major league OF depth when we’re still a few years out from winning.  This is simply not how I would have utilized my resources and it’s the not player I personally would have targeted.  But the good news is I’m not a major league GM or scout and don’t have the knowledge of the player that Barfield does, so hopefully my read here is wrong and this works out well.

Yes the Sox definitely need more pitching but I also think you will see that addressed more too. A lot more . The Cease trade probably will prove it.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Ho hum. 

You're making a bunch of assertions, then backing off of them, so it's like you want to complain about this trade for engagement, but you don't really want to own any of the things you're typing. 

I'm not sure how you find the phrase "surplus of pitching" funny, how you asserted all along that Mena has question marks, and is only in the "2nd tier" of a laughable collection of .... ha-ha, get this .... starting pitchers!! LOL. ... but we can't trade a guy who is in the 2nd tier of a bunch of laughable "pitching prospects", because he's part of a numbers game. 

You're playing word games. But hey, that's besides the point. 

 

For whatever reason...the White Sox didnt/don't perceive him as a premium prospect and would rather trade him than spend any more money in FA.

We shall see who turns out to be right.

As you noted...could have looked at a number of possibilities after Nastrini and gotten five different favorites like Eder and Bush or even Martin on rehab.

Edited February 4 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

For whatever reason...the White Sox didnt/don't perceive him as a premium prospect and would rather trade him than spend any more money in FA.

We shall see who turns out to be right.

As you noted...could have looked at a number of possibilities after Nastrini and gotten five different favorites like Eder and Bush or even Martin on rehab.

It sure looks like after Baltimore got Burnes for that slight package, Getz pivoted, and picked up a couple RFs that were being dangled, because a young RF was his plan all along. 

Mena's an interesting prospect, and it sure would have been nice for him to star here. Maybe dude's right, and this is a trade could have been pulled off next offseason. But while we're calling Baltimore's Elias a prospect-hugger, nobody else seems to be throwing their left-handed RF slugger who fields the position flawlessly, at AA or AAA, yet - at us for Dylan Cease. 

Just like everybody had been saying to the Baltimore guys, a good trade's going to hurt for both teams. 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, SkokieSox said:

In that scenario, it makes sense due to Fletcher’s ability to play CF.

That’s a fair call-out and if he’s above average in CF then I can dig the move a lot more.  I guess I’m skeptical his CF defense would be that good given the lack of speed, but would love to be wrong on that because the bat would profile much better in CF.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

We have a surplus of starting pitching. We have a dearth of outfield talent. If you don't see how a "useful player" fits into some broader strategy, I'm not sure what you're even asking. You can't assume that a player who has been successful in a short run in the majors has too many question marks, but a guy who has had a sketchy track record in the minors, even while ascending quickly at a young age - doesn't. 

I get that you don't like the trade. I wish the D-backs just gave us Fletcher for cash considerations. That would have been cool. 

The Sox don’t have a surplus of anything beyond Brooks Boyer’s 50 ticket agents, and 79 year old hall of fame person consultants.
 

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

They picked up an OF who appears to be able to catch and hit the ball with 6 years of control. That's how he fits into the long term puzzle. I'm not sure what you're struggling with. If there are only 26 players on the planet who can play for the next White Sox championship team, please point them out. 

The White Sox seem to have assembled a surplus of starting pitching, both through a couple of pitching heavy drafts, and a series of trades. They dealt a guy whom they felt his arsenal might not play as well in the majors. They don't appear to have faith in Colas to break some bad habits. 

Again, I don't see what the struggle is. 

The struggle is we suffered a decade with Hahn’s poor roster construction, and this seems like old times.

You’re going the wrong direction trading a solid 21 year old prospect for a 27 year old this September, who even if he is good will be in his 30s before the team is in contention. And he is a poor man’s Benintendi you are are already stuck with for four more years.

People here are more worried about Jerry dying with $20M more in his pocket by Getz spending on one year FA signings than they are giving up prospects for guys who best case scenario will be on the decline by the time the Sox ever have built a competitive core.

I’ve supported most of what Getz has done, but this and Maldonado are redundant with other existing players and a step in the wrong direction. You don’t need five DHs on the roster and you don’t need five no power fungible starters either, especially in a year that doesn’t matter based on your spending cuts and existing roster.

Edited February 4 by South Side Hit Men

[fathom]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s a fair call-out and if he’s above average in CF then I can dig the move a lot more.  I guess I’m skeptical his CF defense would be that good given the lack of speed, but would love to be wrong on that because the bat would profile much better in CF.

He was excellent defensively in CF at Arkansas

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Plus defender in all three spots and he smashes righties. Why do people think he’s just a sloppy guy? My god this is frustrating. It’s like political discourse is. Read, research, then comment. Everyone seems to reverse that order on too many topics. 

You keep saying he isn’t “slappy” but he’s probably a 10 to 15 HR guy max and that’s below average for a corner OF.  I’m not worried he’s Nick Madrigal, I’m worried he’s another Benintendi type who provides sub-optimal power in one of our few corner spots.  Is that really not a fair take?

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

We have a surplus of starting pitching. We have a dearth of outfield talent. If you don't see how a "useful player" fits into some broader strategy, I'm not sure what you're even asking. You can't assume that a player who has been successful in a short run in the majors has too many question marks, but a guy who has had a sketchy track record in the minors, even while ascending quickly at a young age - doesn't. 

I get that you don't like the trade. I wish the D-backs just gave us Fletcher for cash considerations. That would have been cool. 

I’d hesitate to call what the Sox have a surplus of starting pitching. What they have are a lot of bodies, and they need a lot of bodies because pretty much all of their starting pitchers are questionable.

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

People here are more worried about Jerry not dying with $20M more in his pocket spending on one year FA signings than they are giving up prospects for guys who best case scenario will be on the decline by the time the Sox ever have built a competitive core.

What RF is on the market right now for a one year, $20 million deal? I don't care about Reinsdorf's money. 

I'm not sure how a guy who can hit and play the field well lends itself to poor roster construction. I'd take 3 season's of Benintendi's 2021, if that's what Fletcher turns into. Everybody screamed about giving up Hector Santiago for Adam Eaton. Santiago had exactly one league-average season after leaving the Sox. 

I can't remember who's who, because half the people here have "white sox" in their name. But it seems like the general complaint was that all Getz was pursuing was glove-only ballplayers with one year of control. They got 6 years of a player who can hit and catch the ball. And it was for a guy that Chicago White Sox dude called "2nd tier" of a collection of starting pitchers he thought laughable. 

I always find it weird how each player in our minor league system sucks until we trade one of them, then it's a freakin' tragedy and we paid too much. Jake Peter all over again. LOL. 

[WestEddy]

Just now, Snopek said:

I’d hesitate to call what the Sox have a surplus of starting pitching. What they have are a lot of bodies, and they need a lot of bodies because pretty much all of their starting pitchers are questionable.

We sure have a lot more starting pitching prospects than we have starting OF prospects. If it costs one of the lower ceiling pitchers we have to cover a position with what looks like a full time hitter who can field, then that's what it costs. 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

What RF is on the market right now for a one year, $20 million deal? I don't care about Reinsdorf's money. 

I'm not sure how a guy who can hit and play the field well lends itself to poor roster construction. I'd take 3 season's of Benintendi's 2021, if that's what Fletcher turns into. Everybody screamed about giving up Hector Santiago for Adam Eaton. Santiago had exactly one league-average season after leaving the Sox. 

I can't remember who's who, because half the people here have "white sox" in their name. But it seems like the general complaint was that all Getz was pursuing was glove-only ballplayers with one year of control. They got 6 years of a player who can hit and catch the ball. And it was for a guy that Chicago White Sox dude called "2nd tier" of a collection of starting pitchers he thought laughable. 

I always find it weird how each player in our minor league system sucks until we trade one of them, then it's a freakin' tragedy and we paid too much. Jake Peter all over again. LOL. 

$20M is in reference to Getz’ collective off-season FA signings (could be slightly more or less, just approximating plus Pillar won’t be known until OD).

I posted the 1937 star because this isn’t segregation era baseball, and you can’t sacrifice power at both OF corners and expect to have a winning team.

Losing Mena for similarly aged or younger prospects, even this guy, wouldn’t concern me. The lack of logic or big picture thinking concerns me.

[WhiteSox2023]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What RF is on the market right now for a one year, $20 million deal? I don't care about Reinsdorf's money. 

I'm not sure how a guy who can hit and play the field well lends itself to poor roster construction. I'd take 3 season's of Benintendi's 2021, if that's what Fletcher turns into. Everybody screamed about giving up Hector Santiago for Adam Eaton. Santiago had exactly one league-average season after leaving the Sox. 

I can't remember who's who, because half the people here have "white sox" in their name. But it seems like the general complaint was that all Getz was pursuing was glove-only ballplayers with one year of control. They got 6 years of a player who can hit and catch the ball. And it was for a guy that Chicago White Sox dude called "2nd tier" of a collection of starting pitchers he thought laughable. 

I always find it weird how each player in our minor league system sucks until we trade one of them, then it's a freakin' tragedy and we paid too much. Jake Peter all over again. LOL. 

The Diamondbacks just signed Joc Pederson for one year and $9.5 million dollars, but he’s evidence that you can find a replaceable short-term LF on the cheap almost annually, which is a good argument for not throwing $75 million at Benintendi.  But I do like this trade.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

They picked up an OF who appears to be able to catch and hit the ball with 6 years of control. That's how he fits into the long term puzzle. I'm not sure what you're struggling with. If there are only 26 players on the planet who can play for the next White Sox championship team, please point them out. 

The White Sox seem to have assembled a surplus of starting pitching, both through a couple of pitching heavy drafts, and a series of trades. They dealt a guy whom they felt his arsenal might not play as well in the majors. They don't appear to have faith in Colas to break some bad habits. 

Again, I don't see what the struggle is. 

 

Let’s agree to disagree here.  If you feel we have a surplus of starting pitching, then I don’t think fundamentally we see eye to eye on where things currently stand.

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What RF is on the market right now for a one year, $20 million deal? I don't care about Reinsdorf's money. 

I'm not sure how a guy who can hit and play the field well lends itself to poor roster construction. I'd take 3 season's of Benintendi's 2021, if that's what Fletcher turns into. Everybody screamed about giving up Hector Santiago for Adam Eaton. Santiago had exactly one league-average season after leaving the Sox. 

I can't remember who's who, because half the people here have "white sox" in their name. But it seems like the general complaint was that all Getz was pursuing was glove-only ballplayers with one year of control. They got 6 years of a player who can hit and catch the ball. And it was for a guy that Chicago White Sox dude called "2nd tier" of a collection of starting pitchers he thought laughable. 

I always find it weird how each player in our minor league system sucks until we trade one of them, then it's a freakin' tragedy and we paid too much. Jake Peter all over again. LOL. 

Jake Paul or Burger?

Did the same thing coming up with Hector Mendoza instead of Santiago in another thread.

 

As far as results with other teams, it’s because so few Sox prospects ever hit the ground running…yet seem to make bigger impacts across the majors on other teams.

Then when guys like Beckham or Viciedo had decent rookie years, the sophomore slump got them.  Nearly every young hitter but TA, Robert and possibly Burger..

That and the almost total dearth of prospects the last 2-3 years to look forward to. 

[Sambuca]

14 hours ago, fathom said:

This trade seems way better to me than the Santos one

Same. 

Although I am also good with cashing in on one good year of relief, but not completely sold on the return beyond turning one thing into three (plus bonus pool).

Overall, these trades gave me a little pep in my step, and I’ll admit I am a little excited to see what a new front office can do, even if it’s not the one we wanted.

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Let’s agree to disagree here.  If you feel we have a surplus of starting pitching, then I don’t think fundamentally we see eye to eye on where things currently stand.

Quality >>> Quantity

[pcq]

19 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I agree on Benintendi, he had a bad wrist last year, batting second I’d pencil him in for close to a .300 BA with 10-15 homers and 60 ribbies, .770+ OPS.

The issue is two non-sluggers in the corners hosting teams in a home run park. The Sox are vary gracious to their guests. If the visitors are hitting more HR we can guess the results. 

[caulfield12]

Just now, Sambuca said:

Same. 

Although I am also good with cashing in on one good year of relief, but not completely sold on the return beyond turning one thing into three (plus bonus pool).

Overall, these trades gave me a little pep in my step, and I’ll admit I am a little excited to see what a new front office can do, even if it’s not the one we wanted.

Reminiscent of 2012 under rookie manager Ventura feel…hopefully…but even that team had Sale and Q, a bundle of rookies with Reed closing, and then the last vestiges of the 2005 team holding on for dear life.

Of course we also managed to overlook Marcus Semien being in that mix somehow.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, pcq said:

The issue is two non-sluggers in the corners hosting teams in a home run park. The Sox are vary gracious to their guests. If the visitors are hitting more HR we can guess the results. 

Rudy Law and Tom Paciorek and LeFlore worked in the old stadium…definitely will require lots of winning ugly like 1983.  Still need power guys like Kittle Baines Fisk Luzinski though.

[Timmy U]

Here’s my hope for this trade:  Bannister came in and looked at the Sox pitching inventory and Getz got rid of two guys he didn’t like that much. If their veal on Mena is that he’s gonna be a 2 or a 3, this is a terrible trade. But if they think he’s a 5/up and down guy, then I can see why they did it. At this time, I want to trust them.

[WestEddy]

31 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I posted the 1937 star because this isn’t segregation era baseball, and you can’t sacrifice power at both OF corners and expect to have a winning team.

Losing Mena for similarly aged or younger prospects, even this guy, wouldn’t concern me. The lack of logic or big picture thinking concerns me.

Fletcher has power. His first 3 seasons will be during his peak. Nobody's claiming they can win with no power at the corners. You've staked out a ridiculous strawman to be right about.