Ohtani's interpreter fired for stealing money

[Autumn Dreamin]

[Tony]

3 hours ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

I think the problem stems from, if he made the bet, and then influenced the outcomes of games in some way by paying officials or other players. That's where we as fans of the game should probably care. If he didn't influence the game in any way through the bet making (or his interpreter...whatever the situation is), then you're right, who cares. But...we are talking about the 700 million dollar man here.

Said all along, in previous posts in this thread, if he bet on baseball, or even if it wasn't Ohtani but his interpreter was, the story totally changes and we're talking about much bigger implications. I totally agree, and have been on the same page this whole time. I'm also good and have no issue with MLB or whoever else doing a bigger investigation. Find out the real story. 

My whole point was, at this point, there has been zero evidence of that, or that it was even Ohtani making the bets. Because of that, I don't care. If more details emerge and there are links to bets on baseball, my opinion will drastically change. 

[WhiteSox2023]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:37 AM, bmags said:

lmao reporting is that one of the reasons there was such confusion and backtracking is they were initially still relying on the interpreter to tell ohtani what was happening as they were explaining it.

No conflict of interest there.  Perhaps the Dodgers could have hired a second translator?

[Autumn Dreamin]

[Tony]

18 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

So dumb. They are basically going to have him read a press release to cameras. Just release a statement then

[Big Hurtin]

 

 

[WhiteSox2023]

He isn’t wrong, haha.

[South Side Hit Men]

His statements today are unequivocal, no lawyerly parsing of words.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/ohtani-adamant-about-never-betting-on-sports-says-interpreter-stole-money/ar-BB1kwd8V

"I never bet on baseball or any other sports or never have asked somebody to do it on my behalf, and I have never gone through a bookmaker to bet on sports, and was never asked to assist betting [payment for anyone else],"

[soxfan49]

On 3/21/2024 at 12:52 PM, bmags said:

you probably know banks more than me but I can't imagine merely having access to an account would allow you to WIRE millions without it setting off some checks that would have found their way to Ohtani.

I work in banking so let me give me two cents (I may be late but I'm too lazy to read the rest of the thread):

What you posted isn't out of the ordinary at all. Most celebrities, athletes, people of high net worth don't have their money in personal accounts. Most create corporations/LLC's and have direct deposits to fund their personal accounts which also helps them not spend as much (ideally). It'd be very unsurprising if Ohtani didn't have some type of LLC set up with a few "signers" on it who can essentially do anything on an account with the exception of close it, open another inside of the entity, or add more signers. I'd assume in this case Ohtani's lawyer, financial advisor, and (apparently) his translator were signers, and therefore Ippei could've easily sent a 4.5M wire on his own

 

On 3/21/2024 at 1:05 PM, southsider2k5 said:

I would 100% agree with that.  All of the AML laws and post 9/11 banking changes were made around knowing exactly who was moving around large sums of money.  Really everything over 10k is reportable, as are repeated transfers under individual 10k, but adding up to more than that when they are all added up.  I can't see any bank just taking their word for it.  I find the idea that Shohei didn't know anything about this the least likely scenario vs he knew and was trying to bail out a buddy, or he was gambling himself.

My assumption is what's already been posted: Ohtani signed off on the wire or gave the approval for Ippei to send it and then retracted his statement when he realized there are laws against wiring money for illegal gambling

FWIW, anything over 10k is reported, yes, but wires don't fall in that category. It's only if it's physical cash being withdrawn or deposited from an account. Even a $20k check/cashiers check/20 money orders totaling $20k ($1k max per money money is the rule) isn't reported unless the person getting the cashiers check/MO is giving paper cash in exchange 

Keep in mind in business accounts it's a lot more laid back. In a personal account I can't go to a bank and deposited paper cash into your account unless I'm on the account as an owner. It would have to be a check/MO/cashiers check. In a business though, anyone can deposit cash into an account. 

The only thing that prompts the report is over $10k of cash in a single day. If I went to a Bank of America now and took out $6k and then another branch tonight and did it again, that is reported, but if I wait for tomorrow for the other $6k, I'm good. Of course doing $9k one day and $8k the next and $9500 the next day is called layering/structing and is just as bad, but again, a wire for 4.5M is not reported 

Edited March 26 by soxfan49

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

I work in banking so let me give me two cents (I may be late but I'm too lazy to read the rest of the thread):

What you posted isn't out of the ordinary at all. Most celebrities, athletes, people of high net worth don't have their money in personal accounts. Most create corporations/LLC's and have direct deposits to fund their personal accounts which also helps them not spend as much (ideally). It'd be very unsurprising if Ohtani didn't have some type of LLC set up with a few "signers" on it who can essentially do anything on an account with the exception of close it, open another inside of the entity, or add more signers. I'd assume in this case Ohtani's lawyer, financial advisor, and (apparently) his translator were signers, and therefore Ippei could've easily sent a 4.5M wire on his own

 

My assumption is what's already been posted: Ohtani signed off on the wire or gave the approval for Ippei to send it and then retracted his statement when he realized there are laws against wiring money for illegal gambling

FWIW, anything over 10k is reported, yes, but wires don't fall in that category. It's only if it's physical cash being withdrawn or deposited from an account. Even a $20k check/cashiers check/20 money orders totaling $20k ($1k max per money money is the rule) isn't reported unless the person getting the cashiers check/MO is giving paper cash in exchange 

Keep in mind in business accounts it's a lot more laid back. In a personal account I can't go to a bank and deposited paper cash into your account unless I'm on the account as an owner. It would have to be a check/MO/cashiers check. In a business though, anyone can deposit cash into an account. 

The only thing that prompts the report is over $10k of cash in a single day. If I went to a Bank of America now and took out $6k and then another branch tonight and did it again, that is reported, but if I wait for tomorrow for the other $6k, I'm good. Of course doing $9k one day and $8k the next and $9500 the next day is called layering/structing and is just as bad, but again, a wire for 4.5M is not reported 

Thanks for the clarification.  I had no idea of the split in treatment of funds.  That is wild as hell.

[Milkman delivers]

4 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

I work in banking so let me give me two cents (I may be late but I'm too lazy to read the rest of the thread):

What you posted isn't out of the ordinary at all. Most celebrities, athletes, people of high net worth don't have their money in personal accounts. Most create corporations/LLC's and have direct deposits to fund their personal accounts which also helps them not spend as much (ideally). It'd be very unsurprising if Ohtani didn't have some type of LLC set up with a few "signers" on it who can essentially do anything on an account with the exception of close it, open another inside of the entity, or add more signers. I'd assume in this case Ohtani's lawyer, financial advisor, and (apparently) his translator were signers, and therefore Ippei could've easily sent a 4.5M wire on his own

 

My assumption is what's already been posted: Ohtani signed off on the wire or gave the approval for Ippei to send it and then retracted his statement when he realized there are laws against wiring money for illegal gambling

FWIW, anything over 10k is reported, yes, but wires don't fall in that category. It's only if it's physical cash being withdrawn or deposited from an account. Even a $20k check/cashiers check/20 money orders totaling $20k ($1k max per money money is the rule) isn't reported unless the person getting the cashiers check/MO is giving paper cash in exchange 

Keep in mind in business accounts it's a lot more laid back. In a personal account I can't go to a bank and deposited paper cash into your account unless I'm on the account as an owner. It would have to be a check/MO/cashiers check. In a business though, anyone can deposit cash into an account. 

The only thing that prompts the report is over $10k of cash in a single day. If I went to a Bank of America now and took out $6k and then another branch tonight and did it again, that is reported, but if I wait for tomorrow for the other $6k, I'm good. Of course doing $9k one day and $8k the next and $9500 the next day is called layering/structing and is just as bad, but again, a wire for 4.5M is not reported 

Soxtalk gotta be the only site where you can discuss the White Sox and get tips on how to  correctly commit fraud. Gotta love it.

[chitownsportsfan]

I take his words at face value. I've read a little bit than in Japan a lot of rich people give their assistants access to their finances that we'd probably consider too trustworthy. At least that's what a couple people have said on twitter, not sure how accurate it is but makes sense as they do have a high trust society compared to ours.

And of course it's not exactly unheard of in the US for greedy associates of athlete and entertainers to defraud them.

All that said, would it surprise me one bit if Ohtani was placing bets? Not one bit.

[southsider2k5]

35 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

Soxtalk gotta be the only site where you can discuss the White Sox and get tips on how to  correctly commit fraud. Gotta love it.

And you guys thought Reddit was good.

[fathom]

Also, who’s to say that Ippei wasn’t the one getting calls from the bank and answering as if he was Shohei?

[soxfan49]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Also, who’s to say that Ippei wasn’t the one getting calls from the bank and answering as if he was Shohei?

If Shohei was the authorizing individual on the account (once again assuming this was a business), they would have called him to question the wire even if Ippei had the capability of sending them AND if he was the one who did it. So, the only way your proposition is possible would be is if Ippei had Ohtani's phone and answered it to act as him. Even then, normally the compliance team just won't ask "is this ok?" but they would ask answers for other security questions, like maybe the 3 digit code on the back of one of his cards (possible Ippei would have that), to send a notification to his device via text (again possible) or for Shohei to sign into his banking and approve a push notification (less possible because Ippei would have his own log in credentials in this scenario & wouldn't need Ohtani's)

[soxfan49]

5 hours ago, Milkman delivers said:

Soxtalk gotta be the only site where you can discuss the White Sox and get tips on how to  correctly commit fraud. Gotta love it.

Don't mistake reports to the IRS and fraud. Depositing or withdrawing over $10k in cash isn't illegal or fraudulent, rather the government just wants to see if there's a pattern or something that doesn't make sense based on AML. If someone's employer is ComEd and they're receiving direct deposits of $10k biweekly from a Costa Rican company and the funds are being withdrawn in cash, that'll be a much bigger red flag than another individual withdrawing $20k to give to their son as assistance for their first home

From my experience true bank fraud is very difficult. I see people falling for scams often and regular "I woke up and my debit card was used" all the time, but this kind of stuff we're discussing here takes so much time and effort and honestly pure back stabbing

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

If Shohei was the authorizing individual on the account (once again assuming this was a business), they would have called him to question the wire even if Ippei had the capability of sending them AND if he was the one who did it. So, the only way your proposition is possible would be is if Ippei had Ohtani's phone and answered it to act as him. Even then, normally the compliance team just won't ask "is this ok?" but they would ask answers for other security questions, like maybe the 3 digit code on the back of one of his cards (possible Ippei would have that), to send a notification to his device via text (again possible) or for Shohei to sign into his banking and approve a push notification (less possible because Ippei would have his own log in credentials in this scenario & wouldn't need Ohtani's)

The fact it’s his interpreter makes it more possible than if it was just a colleague, etc.   What if Ohtani gave Ippei permission to talk to the bank on the phone for him because it was in English?

[nrockway]

On 3/22/2024 at 5:07 PM, Tony said:

 

Guys, I get all of that. I’m not confused by the case. He used a bookie, which is illegal. I understand. 

Again, how does that impact what I think of Ohanti? Does anyone think he is a bad person because of this? Ideal situation? No. Not a great look. But if Ohtani decided he wanted to use a small portion of his mega contract to lay big money on an NFL Sunday with a bookie? 
 

I just don’t care. 

I think there is a question about ethics when it comes to funding a criminal, vice-peddling enterprise. I think there are questions about whether or not Mizuhara's "access" to Ohtani influenced the betting market or that Mizuhara was extended that line of credit because he could provide information on the Angels that would influence bets.

That being said, I think Ohtani's involvement is the least interesting component of this story, I'm just glad it has to do with him because it shines a brighter light on a major problem developing in this country than if it was Shintaro Fujinami's interpreter. 

Maybe you guys heard about Jontay Porter in the NBA, he allegedly took the "under" on himself in two games and faked injuries so that he would be pulled early on. He (allegedly) placed an $80,000 bet on himself which paid out $1.2million or something thereabout. It's amusing because, although he's a "two-way" player (minor league call up basically), he's skilled enough that he would've probably gotten offered a multi-year, multi-million AAV contract this coming offseason. 

So if a guy who has a proper NBA future ahead of him is throwing games, why wouldn't other, less-talented players be doing this? It calls into question the entire legitimacy of the NBA. Who is throwing games and who isn't? If this is happening in a league where players are paid very handsomely, why wouldn't it be happening in college or the WNBA or what have you? Why should we think this isn't already happening in minor league baseball or god forbid the big leagues? It frankly seems easier to do this in baseball than any other sport and not get caught. Just throw a meatball pitch or "get fooled" by a pitch in the dirt and strike out. It's especially egregious that you can bet on every single player's stat line rather than just the outcome of a game.

I'm prepared for every professional sport to go the way of horse racing. What a shame. Again, I don't think Ohtani is betting, I think he was negligent and naïve. This is wholly a result of Murphy v NCAA and the leagues' collective greed and lack of morals, I don't really care who's getting caught for it, the system is corrupt and this will obviously happen. 

Edited March 26 by nrockway

[soxfan49]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

The fact it’s his interpreter makes it more possible than if it was just a colleague, etc.   What if Ohtani gave Ippei permission to talk to the bank on the phone for him because it was in English?

It's certainly possible. Once again talking to compliance about a 4.5M wire isn't enough. Is it out of the realm of possibility he asked Ohtani for his expiration of his debit card and saw the security code that was texted? Of course not but again normally it requires something else like a sign into your online banking and/or lexus nexus (sp?) answers (what is your height according to your ID, what is the current loan amount on your home, etc). In my line of work I've dealt with a few athletes who are mostly dumb as hell but one thing they care about is money. If those questions were asked by Ippei and Ohtani answered without saying "wait what do you need those answers for"... yikes

I hope I'm not implying this was Ohtani. People are slick as hell and I see it daily. It's just with wires *this size* it's not as simple as "Hi Shohei? This is Robert from Wells Fargo. Did you send this wire? Yes? Ok goodnight"

Edited March 26 by soxfan49

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

It's certainly possible. Once again talking to compliance about a 4.5M wire isn't enough. Is it out of the realm of possibility he asked Ohtani for his expiration of his debit card and saw the security code that was texted? Of course not but again normally it requires something else like a sign into your online banking and/or lexus nexus (sp?) answers (what is your height according to your ID, what is the current loan amount on your home, etc). In my line of work I've dealt with a few athletes who are mostly dumb as hell but one thing they care about is money. If those questions were asked by Ippei and Ohtani answered without saying "wait what do you need those answers for"... yikes

I hope I'm not implying this was Ohtani. People are slick as hell and I see it daily. It's just with wires *this size* it's not as simple as "Hi Shohei? This is Robert from Wells Fargo. Did you send this wire? Yes? Ok goodnight"

How about “this is super weird as presented and for it to go this way a whole lot of safeguards have to break down in a very peculiar way.”

Between the bookie giving a $4.5 million credit line to a guy who probably wouldn’t make that much in 10 years and these transfers not setting off alarms with Ohtani or anyone he employs, it seems worth some real skepticism to me that this is the whole story. Is that fair?

[caulfield12]

https://sports.yahoo.com/adam-silver-nba-dealing-with-serious-consequences-from-fast-changing-landscape-223331355.html

Not directly baseball-related, but certainly quite relevant to the discussion...if MLB continues to go in the direction they are (Sox tie-in with Cesar's SportsBook, etc.) with gambling, then they will continue to lose their way just like the NBA is currently experiencing under Adam Silver.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Just found this thread... I believe Ohtani totally bet on sports.. Too fishy.

My guess is the MLB will do all they can to bury this and then later this year they'll let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame to try and help cover it up.

Edited March 27 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[Snopek]

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Just found this thread... I believe Ohtani totally bet on sports.. Too fishy.

My guess is the MLB will do all they can to bury this and then later this year they'll let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame to try and help cover it up.

Letting Pete Rose in later this year feels like the opposite of covering it up.

[soxfan49]

12 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

How about “this is super weird as presented and for it to go this way a whole lot of safeguards have to break down in a very peculiar way.”

Between the bookie giving a $4.5 million credit line to a guy who probably wouldn’t make that much in 10 years and these transfers not setting off alarms with Ohtani or anyone he employs, it seems worth some real skepticism to me that this is the whole story. Is that fair?

Very fair

[hi8is]

6 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

Very fair

And how about the stuff we've seen come out about the alleged bets that coincide with poor Othani performances? 💩