Sox trade Andrew Vaughn to acquire Aaron Civale

[Kyyle23]

33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How did they immediately transform his eye at the plate?  Fixing the mechanics of one’s swing is something that new orgs can do fast, but teaching plate discipline to a veteran player in just several weeks seems incredibly far fetched to me.

I’m willing to believe he just tanked to get out.  Which, f*** him if that’s true, but people do people things 

[WhiteSox2023]

47 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How did they immediately transform his eye at the plate?  Fixing the mechanics of one’s swing is something that new orgs can do fast, but teaching plate discipline to a veteran player in just several weeks seems incredibly far fetched to me.

Good point.  Still a very small sample size but Vaughn had only 7 walks and 43 strikeouts in 193 plate appearances with the Sox this year.  He now already has 7 walks and only 7 strikeouts in only 57 plate appearances with the Brewers.  Once again, still a very small sample size but WTH was the guy doing at the plate for the Sox?  Swinging at everything because he didn’t give a s%*#?

[Chicago White Sox]

27 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I’m willing to believe he just tanked to get out.  Which, f*** him if that’s true, but people do people things 

The rumors were he was resistant to change and leveraging analytics, so not too surprised to see if him get better once he left.  That being said, him turning into Aaron Judge in like a month after leaving screams fluke.

[Kyyle23]

22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The rumors were he was resistant to change and leveraging analytics, so not too surprised to see if him get better once he left.  That being said, him turning into Aaron Judge in like a month after leaving screams fluke.

The thing i keep reading and hearing is “oh he is on a competitive team now so he is playing harder” and that s%*# doesn’t hold up for me because his first couple years the Sox were competitive and he still scuffled and was up and down a lot.  I agree this is likely one of his hot streaks and he will level out 

[T R U]

This is crazy

With the Sox in 48 games: 7 Walks, 48 K's

With the Brewers in 14 games: 7 Walks, 6 K's

I know its just a hot streak and he's not good, but damn this wasn't like a slow start then he heated up he basically got traded and was immediately awesome. Even his minor league numbers before his callup were solid.

I think you have to assume the Brewers had him make some sort of adjustment that has just taken off. He was not just struggling with us, he was downright atrocious.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

This is crazy

With the Sox in 48 games: 7 Walks, 48 K's

With the Brewers in 14 games: 7 Walks, 6 K's

I know its just a hot streak and he's not good, but damn this wasn't like a slow start then he heated up he basically got traded and was immediately awesome. Even his minor league numbers before his callup were solid.

I think you have to assume the Brewers had him make some sort of adjustment that has just taken off. He was not just struggling with us, he was downright atrocious.

I posted this stat earlier.  Small sample size with the Brewers but that walk to strikeout rate is so drastically different that you have to question if the dude was just flailing at pitches with the Sox cuz he just didn’t give a damn.

[Tnetennba]

We heard rumors that he was lazy and didn't work on his game, and was resistant to analytics and change. Maybe getting sent down then traded was the wake up call he needed? Not saying he's gonna be Aaron Judge-eque for the rest of his playing days, but even great coaching/instruction will fail if the student isn't open to learning.

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

We heard rumors that he was lazy and didn't work on his game, and was resistant to analytics and change. Maybe getting sent down then traded was the wake up call he needed? Not saying he's gonna be Aaron Judge-eque for the rest of his playing days, but even great coaching/instruction will fail if the student isn't open to learning.

Or he isn't lazy, and the Brewers just made it make more sense.  Sometimes it isn't the message, but the messenger.  That doesn't even mean it is a White Sox problem, but sometimes just hearing the same thing a different way just works.

[chw42]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The rumors were he was resistant to change and leveraging analytics, so not too surprised to see if him get better once he left.  That being said, him turning into Aaron Judge in like a month after leaving screams fluke.

No, he will continue to hit like prime Barry Bonds with a .342 BABIP when he has like 0 percentile sprint speed. 

Seriously though, if he ends up being good enough for MIlwaukee that it costs the Cubs the division, the trade will be worth it in my eyes. 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Or he isn't lazy, and the Brewers just made it make more sense.  Sometimes it isn't the message, but the messenger.  That doesn't even mean it is a White Sox problem, but sometimes just hearing the same thing a different way just works.

This is true. For some players, how the message is presented matters just as much as the message itself. 

[Snopek]

I imagine it’s some combination of wake up call, change of scenery, different messaging and absurd hot streak.

[Tnetennba]

10 minutes ago, Snopek said:

I imagine it’s some combination of wake up call, change of scenery, different messaging and absurd hot streak.

An absurd hot streak no doubt, and probably a combo of the above, but it will be interesting to see where he's at once the tear he is on levels out.

[scotty22hotty]

watching the daily brewers story just to see how vaughn helped them win is my new favorite hobby

[nrockway]

If Vaughnie can keep the cubs out of the playoffs, he’s the most useful player the Sox have had in years. Keep up the good work, AV!

[Lip Man 1]

51 minutes ago, nrockway said:

If Vaughnie can keep the cubs out of the playoffs, he’s the most useful player the Sox have had in years. Keep up the good work, AV!

Even if the Cubs don't win the division they'd have to have a complete collapse to not make the playoffs as a wild card. 

[nrockway]

44 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Even if the Cubs don't win the division they'd have to have a complete collapse to not make the playoffs as a wild card. 

Just the sort of thing they're known to do, innit.

But you're right, the path to the NL Wild Card is pretty easy this year. 

[vilehoopster]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Even if the Cubs don't win the division they'd have to have a complete collapse to not make the playoffs as a wild card. 

You mean like being up 6 games in the division on June 16th and now that's it's July 30th, they're down two games. Would it take a collapse like that?

I'm not sure of the numbers, but best I can remember from seeing them in an article on MLB.com this morning. (Too lazy to fine the article again.)

[Sox guy]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Even if the Cubs don't win the division they'd have to have a complete collapse to not make the playoffs as a wild card. 

Yup, that's why people shouldn't get too ahead of themselves here.  WC teams have had much success lately, division titles really don't mean much.

 

Some speculated that the loss of momentum from a bye is actually a disadvantage.  It depends on the team, but I wouldn't rule the flubs out even if they ended up at WC3.  If you're good, you will win, extra rest or not.  Some teams do perform better under higher pressure.

[nrockway]

14 minutes ago, Sox guy said:

Yup, that's why people shouldn't get too ahead of themselves here.  WC teams have had much success lately, division titles really don't mean much.

 

Some speculated that the loss of momentum from a bye is actually a disadvantage.  It depends on the team, but I wouldn't rule the flubs out even if they ended up at WC3.  If you're good, you will win, extra rest or not.  Some teams do perform better under higher pressure.

I don't really care for the baseball postseason because I don't think this is necessarily true. If you're a good team, you'll have a great record over 162 games. Just about any team can get hot over the course of several weeks and the "best" team often does not win the World Series. Aaron Judge is thought of as kind of a "choker" in the playoffs because his OPS of .752 is far lower than his career regular season OPS of 1.025 (nuts. had to check, didn't think it was that high). The 1.000 OPS comes from 4800 plate appearances whereas the .750 is across just 262. Is Judge actually a choker or is it not enough of a sample size to make a determination?

On the other hand, the baseball postseason is fun because every team that makes it has a shot unlike in the NBA or arguably NHL. "Cindarella runs" only happen in sports where there isn't a 5/7 game series or in sports where 'randomness' is a major factor that has to be accounted for. Again, arguably, why baseball is a fun sport...it's pretty random but the data starts to take shape after 160 or so games.

To the point about 'extra rest', I have to imagine it's more beneficial to just have a couple days off to rest and recover after a long, arduous season. A week of good sleep has to help, right? Maybe you develop a little bit of rust, but is there any evidence of this happening after, say, the All-Star Break? Are players extra rusty or does it average out because everyone took the same amount of time off? I'm sure you could take all of the all stars in the history of the sports and look at their week before/week after splits and see if there's anything significant there. I doubt it.

So basically, I agree with you that 'rest' isn't hurting teams, but I disagree that the 'good' teams always win in the playoffs. 

[Sox guy]

31 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I don't really care for the baseball postseason because I don't think this is necessarily true. If you're a good team, you'll have a great record over 162 games. Just about any team can get hot over the course of several weeks and the "best" team often does not win the World Series. Aaron Judge is thought of as kind of a "choker" in the playoffs because his OPS of .752 is far lower than his career regular season OPS of 1.025 (nuts. had to check, didn't think it was that high). The 1.000 OPS comes from 4800 plate appearances whereas the .750 is across just 262. Is Judge actually a choker or is it not enough of a sample size to make a determination?

On the other hand, the baseball postseason is fun because every team that makes it has a shot unlike in the NBA or arguably NHL. "Cindarella runs" only happen in sports where there isn't a 5/7 game series or in sports where 'randomness' is a major factor that has to be accounted for. Again, arguably, why baseball is a fun sport...it's pretty random but the data starts to take shape after 160 or so games.

To the point about 'extra rest', I have to imagine it's more beneficial to just have a couple days off to rest and recover after a long, arduous season. A week of good sleep has to help, right? Maybe you develop a little bit of rust, but is there any evidence of this happening after, say, the All-Star Break? Are players extra rusty or does it average out because everyone took the same amount of time off? I'm sure you could take all of the all stars in the history of the sports and look at their week before/week after splits and see if there's anything significant there. I doubt it.

So basically, I agree with you that 'rest' isn't hurting teams, but I disagree that the 'good' teams always win in the playoffs. 

Your take has been disproven time and again across the internet, and in real life discussions.

 

The point of the season is to win the World Series, so if you win it, you definitely are the best team, regardless of other stats.  You can't judge teams solely by the regular season, it's only a path to the playoffs, nothing more.  Countless teams throughout history have eased up in the RS, saving themselves for the playoffs.  The playoffs define the season, so that's what you judge them by.  If you don't really care for the postseason, then you don't really care for the entire season, since it's all a road to the postseason anyway.  Everything a team does before October is to get there.

 

Judge, and other players, do deserve criticism for October choking.  You played the whole year to get there, you need to perform when you're there.  a playoff HR is worth  a ton of RS homers, it's not even close.  Judge, and others, have no excuse.  If they blow it on the big stage, then they did choke.  If you KO everyone in sparring fights, then get cooked for the title, you're not as good as you thought you were.

 

Baseball is fun because it's action mixed with strategy, so we get both worlds, which is great.  But the playoffs aren't random.  They're won by the teams who were better.

 

Different teams respond to rest differently, and to home field differently.  Some teams rust out too much, but oh well, they still prefer the bye than not.  In few cases, teams do worse at home too, which is why it wouldn't be a bad idea for MLB to give teams the option to defer home field, woulda done the Stros some good.  If a team defers, then they get the 1st 2 games at home, then no more.  Imagine the fan reaction to that, would be bonkers if it backfired.

[Dominikk85]

It still might be just a short hot streak that comes down but it seems the brewers made some changes to him.

 

https://x.com/enosarris/status/1951364504555757941?t=1Fud_4OpHeWM0U7Gq3c-bA&s=19

[whitesoxfan99]

On 7/30/2025 at 2:27 PM, vilehoopster said:

You mean like being up 6 games in the division on June 16th and now that's it's July 30th, they're down two games. Would it take a collapse like that?

I'm not sure of the numbers, but best I can remember from seeing them in an article on MLB.com this morning. (Too lazy to fine the article again.)

They haven't collapsed, the Brewers have been unbeatable for an extended stretch.

[Falstaff]

4 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

It still might be just a short hot streak that comes down but it seems the brewers made some changes to him.

 

https://x.com/enosarris/status/1951364504555757941?t=1Fud_4OpHeWM0U7Gq3c-bA&s=19

Vaughn is definitely on a heater as of late.

Back in March/April Carson Kelly of the Cubs started the season on fire. In 17 games he hit .360 7 hrs  21 rbi with an OPS of 1.347 

[southsider2k5]

5 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

It still might be just a short hot streak that comes down but it seems the brewers made some changes to him.

 

https://x.com/enosarris/status/1951364504555757941?t=1Fud_4OpHeWM0U7Gq3c-bA&s=19

This is really interesting that some of the changes might be more than "luck"  Thanks for sharing.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is really interesting that some of the changes might be more than "luck"  Thanks for sharing.

It's because the introduced an exaggerated leg kick / hover mechanism for him. He now has his foot basically completely off the ground until he drops his hands into the hitting slot. It's working for him now you can def see he has his hands in a much better position to pull for power than he did he last few seasons with the Sox. 

As I said in the other thread I don't think Vaughn was ready to make any changes until he hit rock bottom.