this reddit user was on to something four years ago
Reddit? The place you can go to for uncensored shark attack videos that are in the news? God knows what else is on that hell hole. Not the best site to use to make your point.
I have a hard time believing there's a more negative fanbase out there. I'm over on the Mets subreddit (red-headed step child franchises need to stick together) and even with all the s%*# they go through every year they still have fun. Lighten the f*** up people. Like Steve says, "This is supposed to be fun"
Agreed. Obviously most fans weren’t happy with last night, but it’s baseball. It’s one game out of 162. The Sox were 7-3 in their last 10 before last night.
As for the fanbase, I remember reading a post on that site, where a guy was serious that he was going to move his wife and kids from Illinois to a different state (Nashville, TN) in light of Machado signing with the Padres. If you’re living in a particular place because of a baseball team that you root for, please seek help.
Wasn’t that always just a joke???
Yes I remember that poster here on Soxtalk. I felt so sorry for him. Maybe the team will in fact end up moving to Nashville and the laugh will be on the rest of us.
Yes I remember that poster here on Soxtalk. I felt so sorry for him. Maybe the team will in fact end up moving to Nashville and the laugh will be on the rest of us.
Wasn’t that @Chicago White Sox? I don’t want to speak for him but I always assumed he moved for a job opportunity or something and just threw in that side part about the Sox as a joke.
OMG! You are not being persecuted. We are all Sox fans. You choose to think that tomorrow will be better than today. Rock on, positive attitude. Most of us see the SOS.
Most fanatics all have one thing in common wether its sports or religion. They place blame. Thats what separates the angry fan from the non angry fan. I will readily admit I am ignorant enough of the inner workings of the team so I don't pass judgement on them. The money the man at the top decides to spend or not spend affects every decision the organization makes. You may question Getz, team physicians and coaches and make things up , have outlandish theories to put the blame someplace . You will not admit that your ignorance prevents you from seeing the whole picture and in fact you see very little. Just like you can say a person getting a few posts deleted is not being persecuted. Im not being persectued . I and others are being treated unfairly or censored. If you read the tread at all you have seen others speak up about being accused of gaslighting. How often is Gregg775 called a troll ? How often has Caulfield been made fun of . I feel that if there are going to be posts censored or deleted there must be some kind of due process and those decisions should not be made by one mod who routinely treats peiple poorly. I have seen this behavior for over 20 years. I dont like bringing other pisters name into this but Im sure our resident medical expert Ptatc who used to be universally respected on this website for his medical knowledge has seen how things have regressed and he has felt the sting for his open and objective opinions for just the enjoyment of the game. I understand the nature of sports produces fanatical behavior but I also feel a mod must divorce himself from his fanaticism and let it cloud his judgement on being fair. Isn't that what a moderator is supposed to be above all else when you sit in a position of power ? If posts get censored shouldn't it be a group decision and perhaps a message sent to the alleged offender who should have a chance to defend himself and point of incidents of inconsistencies in passing out punishments ? Im trying to be as level headed about this as possible. You dont think I know its an uphill battle when people like you just chime in with OMG you're not being persecuted, basically telling me I'm paranoid. If one mod can decide all by himself to censor and delete posts because I fight back against the overwhelming tide of ignorant fanaticism then how does one actually stop religious persecution, racism, sexism, ageism, nazism, genocide before it spreads ? History shows these injustice starts with oppression on a smaller scale. I know this is a small world here at Soxtalk but if there is going to be a system of laws here I'd like there to be a fair process to it, not a bunch of voices from the peanut gallery with no knowledge of the situation passing judgement because they are angry fans too. I'll lighten up when you all do. I'm not the one starting threads that say I'm getting tired of the bar of enjoyment of the team being set so low.
If that was me starting a thread that said Im getting tired of how the majority of fans are a little too fanatical about calling for heads to roll I think it would have been shut down or Id be called a troll for making the majority angry by deliberately stirring the pot of fan angst.
Wasn’t that @Chicago White Sox? I don’t want to speak for him but I always assumed he moved for a job opportunity or something and just threw in that side part about the Sox as a joke.
Reddit? The place you can go to for uncensored shark attack videos that are in the news? God knows what else is on that hell hole. Not the best site to use to make your point.
Too true....I get all my information from reputable places like 4Chan.
Most fanatics all have one thing in common wether its sports or religion. They place blame. Thats what separates the angry fan from the non angry fan. I will readily admit I am ignorant enough of the inner workings of the team so I don't pass judgement on them. The money the man at the top decides to spend or not spend affects every decision the organization makes. You may question Getz, team physicians and coaches and make things up , have outlandish theories to put the blame someplace . You will not admit that your ignorance prevents you from seeing the whole picture and in fact you see very little. Just like you can say a person getting a few posts deleted is not being persecuted. Im not being persectued . I and others are being treated unfairly or censored. If you read the tread at all you have seen others speak up about being accused of gaslighting. How often is Gregg775 called a troll ? How often has Caulfield been made fun of . I feel that if there are going to be posts censored or deleted there must be some kind of due process and those decisions should not be made by one mod who routinely treats peiple poorly. I have seen this behavior for over 20 years. I dont like bringing other pisters name into this but Im sure our resident medical expert Ptatc who used to be universally respected on this website for his medical knowledge has seen how things have regressed and he has felt the sting for his open and objective opinions for just the enjoyment of the game. I understand the nature of sports produces fanatical behavior but I also feel a mod must divorce himself from his fanaticism and let it cloud his judgement on being fair. Isn't that what a moderator is supposed to be above all else when you sit in a position of power ? If posts get censored shouldn't it be a group decision and perhaps a message sent to the alleged offender who should have a chance to defend himself and point of incidents of inconsistencies in passing out punishments ? Im trying to be as level headed about this as possible. You dont think I know its an uphill battle when people like you just chime in with OMG you're not being persecuted, basically telling me I'm paranoid. If one mod can decide all by himself to censor and delete posts because I fight back against the overwhelming tide of ignorant fanaticism then how does one actually stop religious persecution, racism, sexism, ageism, nazism, genocide before it spreads ? History shows these injustice starts with oppression on a smaller scale. I know this is a small world here at Soxtalk but if there is going to be a system of laws here I'd like there to be a fair process to it, not a bunch of voices from the peanut gallery with no knowledge of the situation passing judgement because they are angry fans too. I'll lighten up when you all do. I'm not the one starting threads that say I'm getting tired of the bar of enjoyment of the team being set so low.
If that was me starting a thread that said Im getting tired of how the majority of fans are a little too fanatical about calling for heads to roll I think it would have been shut down or Id be called a troll for making the majority angry by deliberately stirring the pot of fan angst.
The Nazis started by telling people what they were allowed to say and think and who their enemies were in fanatical terminology, much like you just did here. The problem has never been disagreements. It has always been the personal attacks embedded in them, such as where you get a post deleted and you connect it to fascism, instead of personal responsibility. If you are really worried about radicalism, there is plenty in the world you COULD be doing to ACTUALLY help real people in real life, non-internet situations.
And no, Soxtalk isn't a democracy, it is a privately owned entity who answers to said owner. You've been here long enough to know what triggers problems, but instead chooses to ignore it.
then how does one actually stop religious persecution, racism, sexism, ageism, nazism, genocide before it spreads ? History shows these injustice starts with oppression on a smaller scale.
Most fanatics all have one thing in common wether its sports or religion. They place blame. Thats what separates the angry fan from the non angry fan. I will readily admit I am ignorant enough of the inner workings of the team so I don't pass judgement on them. The money the man at the top decides to spend or not spend affects every decision the organization makes. You may question Getz, team physicians and coaches and make things up , have outlandish theories to put the blame someplace . You will not admit that your ignorance prevents you from seeing the whole picture and in fact you see very little. Just like you can say a person getting a few posts deleted is not being persecuted. Im not being persectued . I and others are being treated unfairly or censored. If you read the tread at all you have seen others speak up about being accused of gaslighting. How often is Gregg775 called a troll ? How often has Caulfield been made fun of . I feel that if there are going to be posts censored or deleted there must be some kind of due process and those decisions should not be made by one mod who routinely treats peiple poorly. I have seen this behavior for over 20 years. I dont like bringing other pisters name into this but Im sure our resident medical expert Ptatc who used to be universally respected on this website for his medical knowledge has seen how things have regressed and he has felt the sting for his open and objective opinions for just the enjoyment of the game. I understand the nature of sports produces fanatical behavior but I also feel a mod must divorce himself from his fanaticism and let it cloud his judgement on being fair. Isn't that what a moderator is supposed to be above all else when you sit in a position of power ? If posts get censored shouldn't it be a group decision and perhaps a message sent to the alleged offender who should have a chance to defend himself and point of incidents of inconsistencies in passing out punishments ? Im trying to be as level headed about this as possible. You dont think I know its an uphill battle when people like you just chime in with OMG you're not being persecuted, basically telling me I'm paranoid. If one mod can decide all by himself to censor and delete posts because I fight back against the overwhelming tide of ignorant fanaticism then how does one actually stop religious persecution, racism, sexism, ageism, nazism, genocide before it spreads ? History shows these injustice starts with oppression on a smaller scale. I know this is a small world here at Soxtalk but if there is going to be a system of laws here I'd like there to be a fair process to it, not a bunch of voices from the peanut gallery with no knowledge of the situation passing judgement because they are angry fans too. I'll lighten up when you all do. I'm not the one starting threads that say I'm getting tired of the bar of enjoyment of the team being set so low.
If that was me starting a thread that said Im getting tired of how the majority of fans are a little too fanatical about calling for heads to roll I think it would have been shut down or Id be called a troll for making the majority angry by deliberately stirring the pot of fan angst.
Somebody started a thread called something like, "how about we stop engaging in these two disproven narratives", and it's still brought up that some people think apologies were demanded for being angry.
Somebody started a thread called something like, "how about we stop engaging in these two disproven narratives", and it's still brought up that some people think apologies were demanded for being angry.
People think and say anything they want but until they start quoting actual posts as far as Im concerned it's just rumor mongering and gossip.
As someone who would never ask to have a post removed, ill agree with Cali for once and say we're all adults or enough of one that we shouldn't need censorship to save us from meanies who disagree.
I personally enjoy it a bit when I get someone so fired up they gotta resort to personal jobs instead of refuting the point at hand.
So years ago, when I was still a youth, I started a fire someone on the sox .com website. I think it was RV. Firerobinventura.com. I pointed the site to steer traffic to Soxtalk thinking sure why not they won't mind the traffic. I was quickly told in so many words to shut that crap down, at least the link here.
I took it a little personal at the time but now I just realize it's their site, they can do whatever they want. That extends to the mods. It might be fair, but hey, that's how it goes when you're working out of rented real estate, as most of us are here.
I didn't expect to read through this thread thinking there'd be philosophical debates and what not but here we go.
People can look at glasses half empty, half full or at 50% capacity. However they want to view the Sox is up to them, but to expect everyone in our fanbase to be optimistic is bonkers. I was an eternal optimist until Getz's hiring did me in because it showed that Jerry Reinsdorf had an opportunity to maybe take things seriously but instead broke Selig rule to prove that he is an unserious man and hired the baseball embodiment of the Peter Principle.
If Getz is fired tomorrow he might get hired as a baseball operations grunt, but he's not getting any time of executive role because so far, despite being the Ecksteinian Wunderkind, his organizational renovations have resulted in:
He is still, statistically, one of (if not the) worst general managers in the history of major league baseball. Improving from "piece of s%*# that's on fire" to "steaming pile of s%*#" doesn't absolve him of that.
A middle of the pack farm system led by question marks, top prospects losing their luster, and blockbuster trade acquisitions that will drop the system once they graduate (cue: The Who).
He's shown that he struggles negotiating with other GMs.
Cease trade was horrid at the time, but the prospects have aged poorly, Wilson is Wilson (sometimes good, most times bad) and De Vries ascension makes it painful.
Crochet trade: Braden-Teel-Meidroth is a good return! No complaints.
Booser trade was stupid at the time and still makes no sense. Tyler Gilbert, I see the vision, but also dumb. Dude found Rick Hahn's book of "give up young arms for old relievers" sitting around and blitzed through it.
The Kopech/Fedde/Pham trade is aging better thanks to Vargas going from horrid to average and Jeral Perez balling.
Curtis Mead TBD. Looks better this year as a Sox player than a Ray, but Former Top Prospect™ is a term we are deeply familiar with.
Dude held onto Robert too long. The argument that other teams couldn't meet his price...just means that he held onto an asset with the intent of it depreciating in value.
I'm both in and out on development.
Lord have mercy I dunked on Ryan Fuller but that dude might have saved Colson Montgomery and for that we are thankful.
At the same time, I really liked Brian Bannister and suddenly this year every arm in the system has started dealing with soreness, Oprah was hired to hand out Tommy John surgeries, and Schultz/Smith - the prize duo - are looking less and less like Sale/Crochet - or even good version of Rodon - that the team needs.
If Grant Taylor is converted to a reliever full-time in the future, that's just a massive, depressing L.
If you take 2 steps back and look at this team, there's a lot to like. If you're a glass half-full person, this is probably what you're jazzed about and focusing on the most — and I get it. It's more fun to look at the ups than downs, especially if sports is your form of escape.
The Montgomery Brothers.
Having two young, exciting catchers.
I feel like Korey Lee is worth mentioning but also not really?
Meidroth, Sosa and Vargas all look like they can contribute to the infield.
Shane Smith and Mike Vasil are massive Rule 5 wins.
There are really fun names in the farm system.
If the org gets smoke for Hagen Smith, they deserve a lot of flowers for Caleb Bonemer. Smoke-Flower ratio can always change, but right now Bonemer looks like an absolute steal.
Billy Carlson is apparently S-Tier at defense. I'm begging for highlights.
McDougal is finally alive, Oppor is dealing.
Some guys look really really fun, but aren't screaming off the page.
Antonacci, Wolkow, Taylor (if kept as a starter), LaCombe, Shane Murphy
Luis Reyes, please, be a successful big LatAm signing.
If LatAm guys start turning around soon, that's a definitive Getz win since he (at least very, very visibly) was instituting those changes before KW/Hahn were fired.
Venable is smarter and more likable than Pedro.
If you take 10 steps back:
They are still horrible at the Major League level
If Colson and Co. form another small but mighty core that has no depth coming from the minors, then we're gonna see this fall apart like the 2016 core and like the TLR's teams. Watching Colson for 5 years and then seeing him get traded and sign a $1 billion deal with the Yankees in 2030 will hurt.Venable
Venable still makes a lot of mistakes we've seen from recent Sox managers - but he deserves grace considering he's a rookie.
Under normal ownership, Year 3 of a rebuild should at least be the year where you aspire to hit .500. Getz needs the team to be at least a mid-70 win team next year or the Sox fanbase will continue to wither and wither closer to extinction.
Here's a TL;dr of my ramblings: We all still argue and discuss this team cause we, for one reason or another, care about them. The longer that they continue to be horrid, the more glass half-full people will begin to feel deluded and eventually stop watching and the more glass half-empty people will finally decide the team generating negative emotions for them isn't worth it.
Go back 4 years: There were more posters on this board because the fanbase was vibing. Tons of people were out on Colson months ago and now we all feel like he is must-see TV. If Getz succeeds at making the Sox a sustainable winning team, I'm sure tons of people will eat crow. But if he doesn't, he just becomes the embodiment of everything wrong with the Reinsdorf era as it goes out with a whimper, and after decades of frustration, no one will not want to hear about how Chris Getz optimized workflow when he couldn't get wins.
If you think about all the excitement for Rodon, Giolito, Cease, Moncada, Kopech, Jimenez and Luis Robert Jr.'s White Sox debuts individually...that might be comparable to the collective excitement for all the debuts this year.
Lots of talent, but Colson Montgomery is still the only one with true star talent (if absolutely everything went right)...and that certainly was far from the case over the past 18 months, to the point many had already given up on him as a prospect.
Lenyn Sosa has also taken 2-3 years to get to the point where he's at as well...and it's just a completely different feeling with this rebuild right now on the pitching front as well.
The glass half full side still doesn't quite understand the width and breadth of anger still remaining out there.
Ofc it's a lot easier to target the GM than the owner (see Pitt or Sac/Oakland/LV)...maybe if Getz wasn't around for those previous years and came in with a completely fresh start, there might be more willingness to give him a "fair" shot but Reinsdorf has made that next to impossible for many.
I didn't expect to read through this thread thinking there'd be philosophical debates and what not but here we go.
People can look at glasses half empty, half full or at 50% capacity. However they want to view the Sox is up to them, but to expect everyone in our fanbase to be optimistic is bonkers. I was an eternal optimist until Getz's hiring did me in because it showed that Jerry Reinsdorf had an opportunity to maybe take things seriously but instead broke Selig rule to prove that he is an unserious man and hired the baseball embodiment of the Peter Principle.
If Getz is fired tomorrow he might get hired as a baseball operations grunt, but he's not getting any time of executive role because so far, despite being the Ecksteinian Wunderkind, his organizational renovations have resulted in:
He is still, statistically, one of (if not the) worst general managers in the history of major league baseball. Improving from "piece of s%*# that's on fire" to "steaming pile of s%*#" doesn't absolve him of that.
A middle of the pack farm system led by question marks, top prospects losing their luster, and blockbuster trade acquisitions that will drop the system once they graduate (cue: The Who).
He's shown that he struggles negotiating with other GMs.
Cease trade was horrid at the time, but the prospects have aged poorly, Wilson is Wilson (sometimes good, most times bad) and De Vries ascension makes it painful.
Crochet trade: Braden-Teel-Meidroth is a good return! No complaints.
Booser trade was stupid at the time and still makes no sense. Tyler Gilbert, I see the vision, but also dumb. Dude found Rick Hahn's book of "give up young arms for old relievers" sitting around and blitzed through it.
The Kopech/Fedde/Pham trade is aging better thanks to Vargas going from horrid to average and Jeral Perez balling.
Curtis Mead TBD. Looks better this year as a Sox player than a Ray, but Former Top Prospect™ is a term we are deeply familiar with.
Dude held onto Robert too long. The argument that other teams couldn't meet his price...just means that he held onto an asset with the intent of it depreciating in value.
I'm both in and out on development.
Lord have mercy I dunked on Ryan Fuller but that dude might have saved Colson Montgomery and for that we are thankful.
At the same time, I really liked Brian Bannister and suddenly this year every arm in the system has started dealing with soreness, Oprah was hired to hand out Tommy John surgeries, and Schultz/Smith - the prize duo - are looking less and less like Sale/Crochet - or even good version of Rodon - that the team needs.
If Grant Taylor is converted to a reliever full-time in the future, that's just a massive, depressing L.
If you take 2 steps back and look at this team, there's a lot to like. If you're a glass half-full person, this is probably what you're jazzed about and focusing on the most — and I get it. It's more fun to look at the ups than downs, especially if sports is your form of escape.
The Montgomery Brothers.
Having two young, exciting catchers.
I feel like Korey Lee is worth mentioning but also not really?
Meidroth, Sosa and Vargas all look like they can contribute to the infield.
Shane Smith and Mike Vasil are massive Rule 5 wins.
There are really fun names in the farm system.
If the org gets smoke for Hagen Smith, they deserve a lot of flowers for Caleb Bonemer. Smoke-Flower ratio can always change, but right now Bonemer looks like an absolute steal.
Billy Carlson is apparently S-Tier at defense. I'm begging for highlights.
McDougal is finally alive, Oppor is dealing.
Some guys look really really fun, but aren't screaming off the page.
Antonacci, Wolkow, Taylor (if kept as a starter), LaCombe, Shane Murphy
Luis Reyes, please, be a successful big LatAm signing.
If LatAm guys start turning around soon, that's a definitive Getz win since he (at least very, very visibly) was instituting those changes before KW/Hahn were fired.
Venable is smarter and more likable than Pedro.
If you take 10 steps back:
They are still horrible at the Major League level
If Colson and Co. form another small but mighty core that has no depth coming from the minors, then we're gonna see this fall apart like the 2016 core and like the TLR's teams. Watching Colson for 5 years and then seeing him get traded and sign a $1 billion deal with the Yankees in 2030 will hurt.Venable
Venable still makes a lot of mistakes we've seen from recent Sox managers - but he deserves grace considering he's a rookie.
Under normal ownership, Year 3 of a rebuild should at least be the year where you aspire to hit .500. Getz needs the team to be at least a mid-70 win team next year or the Sox fanbase will continue to wither and wither closer to extinction.
Here's a TL;dr of my ramblings: We all still argue and discuss this team cause we, for one reason or another, care about them. The longer that they continue to be horrid, the more glass half-full people will begin to feel deluded and eventually stop watching and the more glass half-empty people will finally decide the team generating negative emotions for them isn't worth it.
Go back 4 years: There were more posters on this board because the fanbase was vibing. Tons of people were out on Colson months ago and now we all feel like he is must-see TV. If Getz succeeds at making the Sox a sustainable winning team, I'm sure tons of people will eat crow. But if he doesn't, he just becomes the embodiment of everything wrong with the Reinsdorf era as it goes out with a whimper, and after decades of frustration, no one will not want to hear about how Chris Getz optimized workflow when he couldn't get wins.
I don't think anyone, certainly me, expects everyone to look at the team as 'glass half full'. I don't actually give a s%*#, it's a ball game and it's supposed to be fun, a form of entertainment. I make the point that, one, it's too early to even indicate success based on past evidence of how sports teams rebuild and that the predictive discussion is simply fun banter and a worthwhile endeavor to better gain understanding. The debate is fun, it's less fun when people don't back up their perspectives beyond base emotion and just act rudely to the people they disagree with. It's a lesson I could learn myself. I like when people disagree with me because it's something to talk about and learn from. I change my mind all the time. It's not like we're discussing the merits of Nazism, it's a fuckin ball game.. Some philosopher I sometimes like, Jurgen Habermas, put forward the concept of 'communicative action', essentially that groups of people can arrive at a clearer idea of the truth through debate. Debate and argumentation is a good thing, but there ought to be some structure to it and rules of civility that everyone plays by. It leads to new insights, a common understanding. It's in essence a 'pragmatic' approach which strikes me as a pretty good philosophy. It is a method not without its critics.
Regarding the Chicago White Sox, a team we all seem to like talking about, and to the topic at hand, I try to argue my point of view that we should feel heartened about the future. I don't want to beat a dead horse and say why, I don't say with 100% confidence that I'm correct, but I feel as though it's a reasonable point of view and is open to critique. Some of the remarks, like, "you're trying to force your views on other people and produce a groupthink" or whatever is simply untrue. It seems like an ironic statement coming from a few different posters, frankly. Many of the remarks make me reevaluate my perspective though.
With that background in mind, to the actual topic, I think looking at present W/L record during a rebuild is a fruitless measure of future success. It's pretty obvious that if a team that trades major leaguers for minor leaguers, it's not conducive to immediate improvement. Baseball players take time to develop, seemingly more so than in any other sport (besides maybe hockey). There might be better baseball team-building strategies, but 'tanking' is not necessarily a bad one. Things that we fans have complained about in the past, namely organizational deficiencies, are seemingly being addressed (discussed ad nauseam). Will they actually work? Can't say for certain. Depends if the biomechanists, if the pitching and hitting advisor, if the new DR complex, if the new international scout are actually good at their jobs. Maybe Getz hired a bunch of buffoons, but it's one of those things that 'winning' organizations seem to do that the White Sox did not previously do.
To go point by point (briefly, I want to go to bed), the "middling farm system" was a top farm system until players graduated, and those graduates have shown some success already in the majors. Colson was allegedly a bust, look at him now (so far, I think KLaw's recent points are fair and I'm personally skeptical about his fastball hitting). Crochet was a doomed reliever until he wasn't. Brooks Baldwin, someone we didn't think about at all two years ago, is maybe an actual good ball player. Bonemer, Antonacci, McDougal, that French guy, that guy who went to my high school are showing actual promise as major leaguers, among other players. The farm is deep, but no longer stacked at the top.
On the trades, I agree with you about the Cease trade, but I also wonder if he was ever considered to be that valuable by other teams. SDP couldn't really trade him and he has a 5 ERA right now. I think it's a similar story with Snell who didn't get the big contract he desired, these guys have great stuff but can't actually go deep into games. Think we probably could've gotten more nonetheless. Jury is still out on Thorpe and Sammy (the only guy I liked in the trade) but he is actually producing the last month. Can he continue it? Dubious. Iriarte looks like a bust. The Booser, Mena, Bummer (adding in those last two) trade look like total failures to me. The Mena trade is particularly disappointing, it made no sense, but I suspect Barfield made a good pitch for Fletcher. Probably could've done better with the Greg Santos trade too, but Berroa looked nice before the injury. Maybe the guy we selected 68th, Blake Larson, turns into something good, but I have no opinion on the 19-year-old. Ultimately, they're relief pitcher trades. Mead, I think, was a worthy venture but I'm losing faith. We'll see. Houser is also at a 5.32 ERA with the Devil Rays and is a guy picked up off the scrap heap. Fedde is another guy picked up off the scrap heap and that trade is actually something (Fedde just had an OK game with the Brewers in relief, but tagged with the L...bet they wish they had Shane Smith instead of him).
Getz being "fired tomorrow" is not a reasonable perspective. He's not going to be fired tomorrow. I give it until 2027 to bear fruit then I might change my mind. I've been pretty consistent about this. If he fails over a longer period, I'll absolutely eat crow. I'm on record thinking last year's team might've been OK if every player played to their potential, anticipating Yoan or Benintendi or Eloy might've done something. That was pretty dumb in hindsight.
I can't quibble with the rest of your "ramblings" 😆. My own post is rambly and I'm not going to edit it because I'm sleepy. Probably there are some glaring errors in my logic or I skipped things worth replying to. I'd simply say, it's a fun discussion and it's not fun when everybody agrees with each other one way or the other. "Groupthink" and conformity is boring. Critiquing ideas and not people is, in my opinion, a good way to be.
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WhiteSox2023
Reddit? The place you can go to for uncensored shark attack videos that are in the news? God knows what else is on that hell hole. Not the best site to use to make your point.
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FloydBannister1983
Yes I remember that poster here on Soxtalk. I felt so sorry for him. Maybe the team will in fact end up moving to Nashville and the laugh will be on the rest of us.
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WhiteSox2023
Wasn’t that @Chicago White Sox? I don’t want to speak for him but I always assumed he moved for a job opportunity or something and just threw in that side part about the Sox as a joke.
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CaliSoxFanViaSWside
Most fanatics all have one thing in common wether its sports or religion. They place blame. Thats what separates the angry fan from the non angry fan. I will readily admit I am ignorant enough of the inner workings of the team so I don't pass judgement on them. The money the man at the top decides to spend or not spend affects every decision the organization makes. You may question Getz, team physicians and coaches and make things up , have outlandish theories to put the blame someplace . You will not admit that your ignorance prevents you from seeing the whole picture and in fact you see very little. Just like you can say a person getting a few posts deleted is not being persecuted. Im not being persectued . I and others are being treated unfairly or censored. If you read the tread at all you have seen others speak up about being accused of gaslighting. How often is Gregg775 called a troll ? How often has Caulfield been made fun of . I feel that if there are going to be posts censored or deleted there must be some kind of due process and those decisions should not be made by one mod who routinely treats peiple poorly. I have seen this behavior for over 20 years. I dont like bringing other pisters name into this but Im sure our resident medical expert Ptatc who used to be universally respected on this website for his medical knowledge has seen how things have regressed and he has felt the sting for his open and objective opinions for just the enjoyment of the game. I understand the nature of sports produces fanatical behavior but I also feel a mod must divorce himself from his fanaticism and let it cloud his judgement on being fair. Isn't that what a moderator is supposed to be above all else when you sit in a position of power ? If posts get censored shouldn't it be a group decision and perhaps a message sent to the alleged offender who should have a chance to defend himself and point of incidents of inconsistencies in passing out punishments ? Im trying to be as level headed about this as possible. You dont think I know its an uphill battle when people like you just chime in with OMG you're not being persecuted, basically telling me I'm paranoid. If one mod can decide all by himself to censor and delete posts because I fight back against the overwhelming tide of ignorant fanaticism then how does one actually stop religious persecution, racism, sexism, ageism, nazism, genocide before it spreads ? History shows these injustice starts with oppression on a smaller scale. I know this is a small world here at Soxtalk but if there is going to be a system of laws here I'd like there to be a fair process to it, not a bunch of voices from the peanut gallery with no knowledge of the situation passing judgement because they are angry fans too. I'll lighten up when you all do. I'm not the one starting threads that say I'm getting tired of the bar of enjoyment of the team being set so low.
If that was me starting a thread that said Im getting tired of how the majority of fans are a little too fanatical about calling for heads to roll I think it would have been shut down or Id be called a troll for making the majority angry by deliberately stirring the pot of fan angst.
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T R U
lmao, yes it was him.
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Kyyle23
I absolutely love that rajah is in there BIG mad at me. 😂
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wegner
Too true....I get all my information from reputable places like 4Chan.
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southsider2k5
The Nazis started by telling people what they were allowed to say and think and who their enemies were in fanatical terminology, much like you just did here. The problem has never been disagreements. It has always been the personal attacks embedded in them, such as where you get a post deleted and you connect it to fascism, instead of personal responsibility. If you are really worried about radicalism, there is plenty in the world you COULD be doing to ACTUALLY help real people in real life, non-internet situations.
And no, Soxtalk isn't a democracy, it is a privately owned entity who answers to said owner. You've been here long enough to know what triggers problems, but instead chooses to ignore it.
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southsider2k5
Was he? Because said poster faced consequences for the post, despite some calling that fascist.
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DoUEvenShift
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
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WestEddy
Somebody started a thread called something like, "how about we stop engaging in these two disproven narratives", and it's still brought up that some people think apologies were demanded for being angry.
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CaliSoxFanViaSWside
People think and say anything they want but until they start quoting actual posts as far as Im concerned it's just rumor mongering and gossip.
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caulfield12
The inability to resolve/discuss the aforementioned list of vexing issues amicably is one of the primary reasons for the dissolution of Filibuster.
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Look at Ray Ray Run
As someone who would never ask to have a post removed, ill agree with Cali for once and say we're all adults or enough of one that we shouldn't need censorship to save us from meanies who disagree.
I personally enjoy it a bit when I get someone so fired up they gotta resort to personal jobs instead of refuting the point at hand.
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chitownsportsfan
So years ago, when I was still a youth, I started a fire someone on the sox .com website. I think it was RV. Firerobinventura.com. I pointed the site to steer traffic to Soxtalk thinking sure why not they won't mind the traffic. I was quickly told in so many words to shut that crap down, at least the link here.
I took it a little personal at the time but now I just realize it's their site, they can do whatever they want. That extends to the mods. It might be fair, but hey, that's how it goes when you're working out of rented real estate, as most of us are here.
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Quin
I didn't expect to read through this thread thinking there'd be philosophical debates and what not but here we go.
Here's a TL;dr of my ramblings: We all still argue and discuss this team cause we, for one reason or another, care about them. The longer that they continue to be horrid, the more glass half-full people will begin to feel deluded and eventually stop watching and the more glass half-empty people will finally decide the team generating negative emotions for them isn't worth it.
Go back 4 years: There were more posters on this board because the fanbase was vibing. Tons of people were out on Colson months ago and now we all feel like he is must-see TV. If Getz succeeds at making the Sox a sustainable winning team, I'm sure tons of people will eat crow. But if he doesn't, he just becomes the embodiment of everything wrong with the Reinsdorf era as it goes out with a whimper, and after decades of frustration, no one will not want to hear about how Chris Getz optimized workflow when he couldn't get wins.
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caulfield12
If you think about all the excitement for Rodon, Giolito, Cease, Moncada, Kopech, Jimenez and Luis Robert Jr.'s White Sox debuts individually...that might be comparable to the collective excitement for all the debuts this year.
Lots of talent, but Colson Montgomery is still the only one with true star talent (if absolutely everything went right)...and that certainly was far from the case over the past 18 months, to the point many had already given up on him as a prospect.
Lenyn Sosa has also taken 2-3 years to get to the point where he's at as well...and it's just a completely different feeling with this rebuild right now on the pitching front as well.
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caulfield12
https://www.southsidesox.com/2025/4/9/24404284/chris-getz-and-the-chicago-white-sox-the-aggressive-arrogance-of-the-mediocre
The glass half full side still doesn't quite understand the width and breadth of anger still remaining out there.
Ofc it's a lot easier to target the GM than the owner (see Pitt or Sac/Oakland/LV)...maybe if Getz wasn't around for those previous years and came in with a completely fresh start, there might be more willingness to give him a "fair" shot but Reinsdorf has made that next to impossible for many.
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nrockway
I don't think anyone, certainly me, expects everyone to look at the team as 'glass half full'. I don't actually give a s%*#, it's a ball game and it's supposed to be fun, a form of entertainment. I make the point that, one, it's too early to even indicate success based on past evidence of how sports teams rebuild and that the predictive discussion is simply fun banter and a worthwhile endeavor to better gain understanding. The debate is fun, it's less fun when people don't back up their perspectives beyond base emotion and just act rudely to the people they disagree with. It's a lesson I could learn myself. I like when people disagree with me because it's something to talk about and learn from. I change my mind all the time. It's not like we're discussing the merits of Nazism, it's a fuckin ball game.. Some philosopher I sometimes like, Jurgen Habermas, put forward the concept of 'communicative action', essentially that groups of people can arrive at a clearer idea of the truth through debate. Debate and argumentation is a good thing, but there ought to be some structure to it and rules of civility that everyone plays by. It leads to new insights, a common understanding. It's in essence a 'pragmatic' approach which strikes me as a pretty good philosophy. It is a method not without its critics.
Regarding the Chicago White Sox, a team we all seem to like talking about, and to the topic at hand, I try to argue my point of view that we should feel heartened about the future. I don't want to beat a dead horse and say why, I don't say with 100% confidence that I'm correct, but I feel as though it's a reasonable point of view and is open to critique. Some of the remarks, like, "you're trying to force your views on other people and produce a groupthink" or whatever is simply untrue. It seems like an ironic statement coming from a few different posters, frankly. Many of the remarks make me reevaluate my perspective though.
With that background in mind, to the actual topic, I think looking at present W/L record during a rebuild is a fruitless measure of future success. It's pretty obvious that if a team that trades major leaguers for minor leaguers, it's not conducive to immediate improvement. Baseball players take time to develop, seemingly more so than in any other sport (besides maybe hockey). There might be better baseball team-building strategies, but 'tanking' is not necessarily a bad one. Things that we fans have complained about in the past, namely organizational deficiencies, are seemingly being addressed (discussed ad nauseam). Will they actually work? Can't say for certain. Depends if the biomechanists, if the pitching and hitting advisor, if the new DR complex, if the new international scout are actually good at their jobs. Maybe Getz hired a bunch of buffoons, but it's one of those things that 'winning' organizations seem to do that the White Sox did not previously do.
To go point by point (briefly, I want to go to bed), the "middling farm system" was a top farm system until players graduated, and those graduates have shown some success already in the majors. Colson was allegedly a bust, look at him now (so far, I think KLaw's recent points are fair and I'm personally skeptical about his fastball hitting). Crochet was a doomed reliever until he wasn't. Brooks Baldwin, someone we didn't think about at all two years ago, is maybe an actual good ball player. Bonemer, Antonacci, McDougal, that French guy, that guy who went to my high school are showing actual promise as major leaguers, among other players. The farm is deep, but no longer stacked at the top.
On the trades, I agree with you about the Cease trade, but I also wonder if he was ever considered to be that valuable by other teams. SDP couldn't really trade him and he has a 5 ERA right now. I think it's a similar story with Snell who didn't get the big contract he desired, these guys have great stuff but can't actually go deep into games. Think we probably could've gotten more nonetheless. Jury is still out on Thorpe and Sammy (the only guy I liked in the trade) but he is actually producing the last month. Can he continue it? Dubious. Iriarte looks like a bust. The Booser, Mena, Bummer (adding in those last two) trade look like total failures to me. The Mena trade is particularly disappointing, it made no sense, but I suspect Barfield made a good pitch for Fletcher. Probably could've done better with the Greg Santos trade too, but Berroa looked nice before the injury. Maybe the guy we selected 68th, Blake Larson, turns into something good, but I have no opinion on the 19-year-old. Ultimately, they're relief pitcher trades. Mead, I think, was a worthy venture but I'm losing faith. We'll see. Houser is also at a 5.32 ERA with the Devil Rays and is a guy picked up off the scrap heap. Fedde is another guy picked up off the scrap heap and that trade is actually something (Fedde just had an OK game with the Brewers in relief, but tagged with the L...bet they wish they had Shane Smith instead of him).
Getz being "fired tomorrow" is not a reasonable perspective. He's not going to be fired tomorrow. I give it until 2027 to bear fruit then I might change my mind. I've been pretty consistent about this. If he fails over a longer period, I'll absolutely eat crow. I'm on record thinking last year's team might've been OK if every player played to their potential, anticipating Yoan or Benintendi or Eloy might've done something. That was pretty dumb in hindsight.
I can't quibble with the rest of your "ramblings" 😆. My own post is rambly and I'm not going to edit it because I'm sleepy. Probably there are some glaring errors in my logic or I skipped things worth replying to. I'd simply say, it's a fun discussion and it's not fun when everybody agrees with each other one way or the other. "Groupthink" and conformity is boring. Critiquing ideas and not people is, in my opinion, a good way to be.
edit: ok I edited one thing
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T R U
lmao yeah I read that too and got a good chuckle out of it
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