Sox Acquire All-Star 3B Todd Frazier from Reds in 3 team deal

[Dam8610]

I find it humorous that Frazier's closest offensive comp at age 29 is Joe Crede, because I've often thought that Crede's steady .250ish average, 20-30 HRs, and 70-80 RBIs with extremely solid defense would be a perennial all-star in today's game.

[chitownsportsfan]

I find it humorous that Frazier's closest offensive comp at age 29 is Joe Crede, because I've often thought that Crede's steady .250ish average, 20-30 HRs, and 70-80 RBIs with extremely solid defense would be a perennial all-star in today's game.

 

everything is relative. Crede probably would hit 220 in today's MLB. Lotta gas out there and specialized relievers.

 

that said, if Frazier is f***ing Joe Crede in his prime that would be great for '16.

[Dam8610]

everything is relative. Crede probably would hit 220 in today's MLB. Lotta gas out there and specialized relievers.

 

that said, if Frazier is f***ing Joe Crede in his prime that would be great for '16.

 

Possibly, but as I recall, Crede was a good low ball hitter, and the low strike is what has caused a good deal of the attrition of offense in MLB recently.

[Vance Law]

Where does this leave Mike Olt?

 

He was always going to be AAA or on another team.

[dasox24]

Frazier Audio

 

https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/status/...241763959042049

Good stuff. Thanks for posting that.

[mmmmmbeeer]

There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter.

 

JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things.

 

Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender.

 

Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise.

[caulfield12]

There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter.

 

JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things.

 

Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender.

 

Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise.

 

 

Not only that, but there's the huge elephant in the room, that media rights negotiation in 3-4 years.

 

Typically, teams are doubling their existing rights fees and ending up in the $100-150 million range per year, on average (obviously the Dodgers are an outlier and the net effect won't be as positive as first believed by the new owners because of all the households that can't watch the Dodgers or ESPN, either).

 

With the White Sox likely losing the Cubs from the Comcast deal (as they go independent), that would make it 50% Reinsdorf's Bulls and White Sox, 25% Blackhawks and 25% Comcast/NBC/Universal or whoever the corporate parent these days.

 

One way or the other they need to be as well-positioned as possible to take advantage of that impending situation.

 

The last thing they can afford to do is half-ass it for the next two seasons and then end up tearing it down again before 2018 (Lawrie, Frazier and Cabrera leaving at the same time, the Boras/Rodon impending free agency distractions like you're already seeing with Fernandez in Miami, etc.)

 

If there's going to be ANY time in the next 4-5 years to tear it down or continue building/sustaining, it's going to be between the 2017 and 2018 seasons...with another important consideration being the fact that after 2018 there's going to be HUGE free agency class in terms of potential impact.

[OmarComing25]

Yeah, this idea we need a flawless team in order to compete is beyond stupid.

The way some posters talk you'd think we need 3 WAR players at every position on the roster or you might as well blow it up.

[caulfield12]

No, but you need for the more average or semi-casual fan to believe that your team has at least a 50/50 chance to compete for a playoff spot.

 

Those fans could care less about WAR or payroll obligations...they only care about wins and losses, and the team's place in the standings.

 

 

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb...-reds/77444506/

Good article from Cincy paper about Frazier and the team's need to trade him, very laudatory...

 

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb...-fans/75682648/

How will the Reds sell rebuilding to the fans?

 

Worthwhile reading. Lots of examples (Cubs, Astros, Pirates, Royals, etc.) with plenty of quotes. Like the White Sox situation, the Reds held on too long with too many veteran players for "one last shot" at it and it has come back to bite them a bit, especially with the likes of Chapman, Frazier, Bruce and Phillips.

 

They really don't have a whole lot to promote. Joey Votto. Billy Hamilton was a dud. Mesoraco and Cozart were hurt or didn't perform nearly as well as 2014. A Tigers' castoff (Suarez) was your main offensive highlight amongst the youngsters, and a batch of young rookie pitchers took a beating in the 2nd half.

Edited December 17, 2015 by caulfield12

[Jerksticks]

No, but you need for the more average or semi-casual fan to believe that your team has at least a 50/50 chance to compete for a playoff spot.

 

Those fans could care less about WAR or payroll obligations...they only care about wins and losses, and the team's place in the standings.

 

 

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb...-reds/77444506/

Good article from Cincy paper about Frazier and the team's need to trade him, very laudatory...

 

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb...-fans/75682648/

How will the Reds sell rebuilding to the fans?

 

Worthwhile reading. Lots of examples (Cubs, Astros, Pirates, Royals, etc.) with plenty of quotes. Like the White Sox situation, the Reds held on too long with too many veteran players for "one last shot" at it and it has come back to bite them a bit, especially with the likes of Chapman, Frazier, Bruce and Phillips.

 

They really don't have a whole lot to promote. Joey Votto. Billy Hamilton was a dud. Mesoraco and Cozart were hurt or didn't perform nearly as well as 2014. A Tigers' castoff (Suarez) was your main offensive highlight amongst the youngsters, and a batch of young rookie pitchers took a beating in the 2nd half.

At least the white sox didnt hold on too long. Thankfully Rick & Kenny were smart enough to know when it was time to flip the core. Incredible job all around. If Davidson woulda panned out this trade could have been for our cornerstone catcher. Oh well, only an idiot would expect 100% success with trades. Keep up the good work KW, RH & JR!

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter.

 

JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things.

 

Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender.

 

Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise.

 

I seriously don't think you understand the difference between cash flow and a non-liquid asset. Just because you have something worth a billion dollars doesn't mean you have a billion dollars to spend.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Not to poo-poo on this trade whatsoever, because I am extremely excited we got Frazier today, but the trade DID hurt us defensively in 2 different positions.

 

The offensive boost is tremendous from Frazier over Saladino and Lawrie over Sanchez, but Saladino and Sanchez both do appear to be better defensive options. Basically my point is that this team better find a way to improve it's defense in other areas like SS and RF if it plans to be any better than they were last year on D.

 

Obviously for the totality of 2015, our 2016 shapes up to be better, because 58 games were manned at 3B by Conor Gillaspie and his laughably bad -10 DRS in 69 games at 3B (last 11 with Angels), and Micah Johnson's poor defense for the first 5 or 6 weeks or whatever, but just purely from the 2nd half of last year to 2016, we will see a regression on infield defense.

[Lillian]

There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter.

 

JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things.

 

Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender.

 

Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise.

 

If your assessment of the financial condition of this organization is correct, then I want Erick Davis and a World Series.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just for the record on the surface, I think this was a fair trade. I've always said the Sox need more talent and you can't knock Frazier's talent is All Star worthy. In a different framework I am as worried about it as some of the other posters.

 

Whether you agree with it or see flaws in it ,the continual gathering of NL players has not worked. Besides the Sox examples you had Scherzer going from a very good pitcher to a crazy good pitcher throwing complete games and no hitters in the NL. Nick Markakis almost hit .300 in the NL . Gerrado Parra was hitting very well in the NL and then tailed off a lot once he got to Baltimore. Admittedly this is not a science and I haven't done a lot of research into it. It's an observation based on the Sox "bad Luck" and checking out some stats of Parra and reading things about Markasis and being a general baseball observer in the case of Scherzer,

 

I am more confident Lawrie will repeat his numbers more so than Frazier for this very reason. Of course I am hoping for the best and would love to be surprised. You can even throw Cespedes in the example between his time with the Tigers and Mets with his OPS+ ,OPS and slugging rising in the NL. 1 less HR in the NL in 175 less AB's. Of course Cespedes numbers with the Tigers weren't too shabby either and for that reason if the Sox go after an OF I would prefer Cespedes. However that would leave Eaton in CF and I was hoping for Thompson in CF with a RF upgrade over Avi .

 

Admittedly sometimes I let my heart rule my head but I really liked Montas but am continually surprised that even our Minor league experts talk about him as if he is a finished product or cite his minor knee surgeries as some big problem. I think he has or will develop top of the rotation skills meaning a 1 or 2 starter. He has good mechanics and a compact delivery which should continue to help his command .

 

Like I said it was a fair trade but if in the next few years Montas becomes a top starter or Frazier stumbles in the AL it becomes another example of the Sox trusting the NL to improve the team and giving up on our young talent too early.

 

On the plus side if he does well the Sox have a good trade chip for when he elects free agency , they are not handicapped by his salary, 30-35 HR's is a significant offensive upgrade , and he should provide adequate defense at 3rd.

[LDF]

There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter.

 

JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things.

 

Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender.

 

Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise.

 

the total value of the company does really help and hurt. but that will be done on the calendar yr and with the accts. it does provide some positive cash to play with as long the numbers at the end are equal, mean profit and lost. but again that the acct side of the business.

 

i will make this a little plainer, since the late 90's, the sox have stated that they do not have the money like other companies, so they were looking at 120-130 room.... for this, i will use 125 mil as the 1/2 point. since then, the sox have pickup adv companies and until recently lost adv companies and yet that 125 as been constant / unfluctuating. now with the tv deals that been announce and many org spending more b/c of it, the sox again has been constant at 125 mil.

 

this is a strange event where those numbers are always unfluctuating when the org gets another boost of money incoming.

[BlackSox13]

The only real downside I see to this trade is the Sox just took one of the better NLC power hitters out of the division. You're welcome Pirates, Cards and cubs.

 

I wonder if Cinci will be able to win 50 games in '16.

[103 mph screwball]

Part of me really wants to LOVE this deal. But I also loved the Adam Dunn and Adam Laroche signings. A power bat from the NL makes me nervous. I think Frazier makes the Sox better, I'm just trying to keep my expectations down.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Part of me really wants to LOVE this deal. But I also loved the Adam Dunn and Adam Laroche signings. A power bat from the NL makes me nervous. I think Frazier makes the Sox better, I'm just trying to keep my expectations down.

Oh come on. Not ever NL player is going to hit like Dunn and LaRoche. He's not like them at all.

[southsider2k5]

There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter.

 

JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things.

 

Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender.

 

Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise.

 

Ugh. This just hurts. There is a difference between being worth something on paper, and actually having the cash in hand to do it.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I seriously don't think you understand the difference between cash flow and a non-liquid asset. Just because you have something worth a billion dollars doesn't mean you have a billion dollars to spend.

 

You're missing my point....they can go in the red for a season or two without catching too much flack from the investors considering the ROI since purchase. I understand that the franchise's book value isn't a liquid asset, nor is any other business' value....but if that potential value is secure enough (can't get more secure than an MLB franchise), you'll never have an issue finding cash in any number of ways.

[caulfield12]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/white-sox-get...-181722163.html

 

Passan article on the deal

[SCCWS]

Frazier is not mediocre at 3B defensively, he's very good.

 

Based on what??? He made a lot of errors last year ( 19) and his range factor is pretty limited.

 

[LDF]

 

ok, the trade for frazier may have been the far from perfect trade, or frazier is the far from perfect 3b, but it fixes a major hole in this team now and will fix it in the next 2 yrs left on his contract. while at the same time providing a nice bat to help this team. this is a nice stop gap, temp fix until the minor league system the sox has, will start producing.

 

plus like it or not, he will help this team become competitive again, esp in chicago.

[BlackSox13]

An added benefit of Frazier is that he can play first base. If the Sox like what Frazier does over the next two years and Frazier likes the South Side, the Sox could look into an extension and move him to first base if Michalczewski pushes his way onto the team in the next year or two.

[RockRaines]

Based on what??? He made a lot of errors last year ( 19) and his range factor is pretty limited.

I feel like I just jumped into a time machine