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Keep checking this thread for Bauer updates and all I'm getting is hearty helpings of Mazara. No thank you.

STOP 👏 TALKING 👏 ABOUT 👏 NOMAR 👏 MAZARA 👏 IN 👏 THE 👏 TREVOR 👏 BAUER 👏 UPDATE 👏 THREAD 👏. Factoring in the eye test, he's still below average. Let's move on, yes?

Man, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... This is still Mazara talk??? Holy moly.

I'm still trying to figure out why they eliminated the curveball from Lopez's repertoire. Because it worked with giolito is not a good reason but that's the only one I can come up with. It clearly didnt work out with Lopez. It was his best pitch when he came up with the Nats. I'd like to see if he can bounce back employing it before giving up on him.

Couple things: 1. Are you related to Mazara? I ask this because overall, he kinda sucks. 2. With respect to the bolded, if you don't like DRS, look at the Inside Edge numbers. Mazara gets to exactly NONE of the "unlikely" chances (10% - 40% types). This illustrates that he has no range. His arm is mediocre as well. 3. In sum, he's a poor-fielding corner OF who needs a platoon partner, a defensive sub late in games, and a pinch runner. There are plenty of players with fewer flaws that are available for less money.

Things have been quiet on the manager search lately and this makes me believe that Hahn is operating in a stealth manner and talking to Ozzie about the opening. Anyone else think this may be in the case and we may get a surprising announcement sometime this week? I know this would make Chance the Rapper happy!

Random article that lists us as one of the top five destinations for Bauer. Obviously this means nothing, but it’s better than arguing against a delusional Mazara fanboy. https://www.radio.com/sports/mlb/gallery/trevor-bauers-top-5-potential-landing-spots-in-free-agency#chicago-white-sox-ckgmga8570061u4pc0d1ngpfm

Meatball status confirmed - I think we can all move on here and refocus our thoughts on Bauer again.

They sure as hell aren't just looking at batting average and home runs.

Yeah, they just say everyone is a candid except Ozzie to throw everyone off. ozzie has to be the choice, assuming Terry Bevington doesn’t want to come back.

This is...not a blog?

No. /Thread.

Maybe you should take a look at the stats. If you run a fangraphs on RF for 2017 to 2020 Nomar Mazara doesn't rank in the top 50. In fact he ranked 53rd. Even if you narrow to oWAR only, he still isn't in the top 50. Hell Daniel Palka ranks ahead of him at #77, as does Charlie Tilson at #87, and Ryan Cordell at #100. In fact Nomar Mazara comes in 2nd to last at 112 of 113 offensively during that time frame. Even if you rerun it without his disaster of a 2020, Mazara comes in at 58 of 113. EDIT: Even if you want to look at the traditional stats, Marara has never hit .275. .266 is his career high. He has carried and OBP in the .320 range. He's hitting a homer about every 30 PAs, so it isn't even like he has been selling out for the long ball or something. He is a decidedly mediorce player with a ton of potential the Sox were hoping would break out. It didn't happen, and he isn't getting an arbitration offer. You can bookmark this post if you like even.

I would be highly disappointed if they brought in another project. There is no time for that at this point, your contention window is open now.

What is unequivocally creepy is speculating on adultery involving Jerry Reinsdorf or anyone else.

Manfred is such a giant bag of shit. I'm not going to rant on about this but I can't stand these damned rule changes that eliminate portions of the game which have evolved naturally within the proper context and spirit of the game. Example, the 3 batters rule. You give a manager 25 players to roster and he is likely going to pick 2 specialists, a lefty and a righty. If you give him 5 or 6 less players then he won't, but with 25 or 26, you allow him to specialize and devote specialist players to specialized roles that are important enough to designate as being so special and worthwhile. The lefty and righty specialist evolved naturally out of good competitive spirit. But of course everything about being a commissioner is about revenue and specifically appealing to a seemingly increasingly idiotic generation of people with constantly decreasing attention spans. So of course the desire is to cater to these people because they have money. But I don't give a shit about these people. They're bandwagoners anyway, and for hardcore fans like me, I think the long length of the game and the long length of the season has a lot of appeal. I like to work while having the games on, or put the game on the radio in the car. It's a nice chunk of my day that is made more enjoyable by baseball, and I'm not going to b**** about the length of it. I think a lot of people are like that. Eliminating the shift or trying to is trying again to eliminate another element that evolved naturally within the spirit of the game. Put a bunt down you stupid oaf if you don't like it. Oh you can't bunt? Ok fuck you then, hit the ball on the ground to the 3B playing SS. Grab some bench. That's excellent baseball and IMO isn't doing anything different than before. People just record more information now and use it better but they could have spent all of the 1940s shifting if they wanted to. Eliminating cheating is great. Improving accuracy of the umps by replacing them is great. Making the game more fair for all teams is great. A pitch clock is a great thing. I would love for technology to be added that allowed the pitcher and catcher to communicate wirelessly by their own signals, but ONLY the pitcher and catcher, because adding the dugout into the game allows for micromanaging of everything and really ruins the spirit of the game of pitcher and catcher vs. hitter. But adding tech to the game to make it more fair is great. A pitch clock is great, but must be reasonable. The pitch clock should be longer during the AB. E.g. for the first 5 pitches it is X seconds between pitches, then for pitches 5-8 it is X+2 seconds allowance, and pitches 9-11 it is X+4, and pitches 12+ it is X+6 or something, to allow for extra thought to exist in moments of greater need for strategic thought. But simply b****ing about the length of the game just because a bunch of dumb bandwagoner fans don't like and a bunch of people generally with the attention span of a fly can't handle it is really ruining the game for pitiful benefits. Think about these Yankees vs. Red Sox games that take like 4 hours because the lineups are stacked and every hitter is a tough out and every pitcher has to make a great pitch in like every AB. When you stack a lineup full of great hitters then you are doing a great job as a FO. And as a hitter, if you can survive deep into counts routinely, that makes you a great hitter. As a P, it is one thing to fiddle with your hat and your ass for about half a minute off the rubber before getting back on it but also in the spirit of the game, the P should have the ability to set himself up mentally to make a tough pitch in a tough situation. Really, these long games are often the result of some of the best of the best of the game playing each other. This is a good thing. I wish Manfred was a fly on the wall and I could just swat him. He doesn't care about the game at all. As far as the man on second rule, I actually don't hate it as much as I thought it would, but I would prefer a normal 10th, a man on 1st in the 11th, 2nd in the 12th, and a man on 3rd in 13th and beyond, or something like that, if the rule is going to stick. And in this case I do not believe it harms the spirit of the game because it's about keeping players healthy and members of the pitching staff available for future games. And I believe it should only apply in the regular season and should not apply in any game 163 or playoff game situations. But anyway fuck Manfred with a rusty flag pole.

Manfred's job should be endangered.

No, they aren't just looking at batting average and home runs. RBIs are looked at as well as OBP. And a right fielder is an important defensive positions as well. You might want to consider that Mazara does have a good number of assists in his four seasons which is a testament to his arm strength. He does have a very strong arm. But southsider, batting average and home runs and RBIs are still the make or break stats for measuring especially the baseball positions which are counted on to deliver runs. That is just the truth of things.

I always love when someone tells a person that batting average is an antiquated way of measuring a hitter. like, cmon man, that horse doesn’t need any more beating. 2006 called and said “great point!”

You realize that for every single made up scenario, you can do the same thing for a batting average right? Fluke hits happen, why do you trust batting average? It's too bad you can only handle the most simple of numbers.

Do you ever look up what you are talking about? From 2016 to 19, Mazara ranked 20th in HRs by a RF. He ranked 29th in BA. He ranked 39th in OBP. Even cherry picking the best portion of his career, and his best stats,he is a replacement level RF. He is a decidedly mediocre player. Your argument is faulty. Nothing of what you thought is actually true.

This times a billion.

I think there are many more fans than just me that want to give us the best chance at a World Series title in 2021 (or whenever the next season is played)

If Quintana is our big rotation upgrade then I think we’re in big trouble next year and I say that even if that means we get Springer. I do like the McHugh idea depending on what else we do, but not sure the front office would sign him after he called them out for service time manipulation. Also, there is zero chance they are moving Grandal in some crazy attempt to bring back McCann. I’m generally curious why you think this, although I’m guessing it’s due to Stone’s comments on Twitter.

I know they said that initially but they haven't referenced him since the day Ricky was dismissed. It leads me to believe that something is happening on the down low. We can be hopeful!

I can’t believe a thread is being started on this. No, Ozzie Guillen is not going to be the new manager. Hahn has already put this to rest in the presser and also mentioned that there may be some candidates managing or coaching in the series. They also have to wait until after the series is over to interview Hinch. That’s why it has been quiet. Nothing is going to get leaked or announced yet on who the new manager is going to be. Let’s move on from the Ozzie Guillen talk.

If you want a treat, go take a look at the statistics of the American league starting right fielders for the last four years. It is pathetic over-all. YOu may think that 20HR, 75RBI, and .275 BA is bad but it really is in the top 3rd of Al right fielders. Think about it. Who are the excellent AL right fielders right now? Hell, last year, the best one went to the Dodgers in Mookie Betts. It really is position which is a very weak one. And right field, my friend, is not a position that you can just plug anybody into. The guy has got to have some speed. He has to have a strong throwing arm. And he plays in what historically been considered a power position. What is also funny is your statement that I somehow think that he is "as good as you make him out to be". All I have said is that he is an average major league right fielder. That is all. But clearly, there are a bunch of you guys who view him differently. That's okay but your opinion isn't supported with facts. He has been an average four year power hitting right fielder and is still 26 years old

Did you think that a guy who averaged 20 home runs and 75 RBIs and hitting over .270 with four major league seasons under his belt at 26 years old is a bum? Very few players in the history of baseball have done that well in their baseball careers by the age of 26. There are minor league guys all around baseball who never made it to one game in the major leagues by age 25 years old. I know this. If Mazara just returns to his average production numbers that occurred in his first four seasons, he will start for at least two thirds of major league teams over the next 5 years. Thinking that he is some kind of baseball bust based on a silly season like he just had really isn't good logic.

Nope. One year in his short career he hit 20 HRs and drove in over 100 RBIs. IN 2019, out of about 35 guys in the Al who played right field at all, only 7 hit more home runs(19) or drove in more runs than he did( 68). And he hit .268 which was better than 2/3rds of them did. The guy was a legit all around right fielder. He did have some trouble with left handed pitchers and did get platooned a bit. So what? lot of young players have that done in their early careers.

I don't want to be paying Mazara 6 million for what we have seen, but like you, it won't bother me to see him play when healthy. When we don't pick up his option...he should be available on a 3 million type of deal. His defense was satisfactory and he was coming around with the bat. As you point out...Moncada didn't look so well last year either. Both guys recovering and obviously weakened considerably. If we pour every extra dime into pitching (both starting & relief) that will suit me just fine. There are no right fielders available that strike me as can't miss for moderate money...and Engel seems to contribute whenever he gets a chance to play. Times like now I am glad we don't have Harper. Plenty of money to go get the Bauer's of the World.

There's the greatest Jeremy Reed fan ever known! I've popped through without logging in on occasion, and I've been lurking with greater frequency with the excitement of this last season. Despite all the changes in social media/interaction, I love seeing this place still running strong, and it's been great seeing all the old regulars in action throughout everything.

Ever see some of Mazara's home runs? He hits them "FAR". If you guys want to research outfield and hitting data points, more power to you. I watch the player himself and make my own assessment. IF all things were equal and Mazara didn't get Strep Throat and lose weight and strength, do you think that he wouldn't have hit somewhere in the area of 20 home runs last year in a regular season. If you do, I'd have to disagree with you based on our ball park and better line-up than the Rangers had.

I think after Bauer, he's the best pitcher available in free agency. Strikeouts are great and all, but they aren't exactly efficient and aren't as great as home run suppression. Stroman keeps the ball on the ground. He has the lowest launch angle against of any pitcher in the majors, which keeps the ball in the park and induces double play balls. He's never allowed more than 0.9 hr/9 in any season. He's never had a FIP above 3.9. He's a bull dog on the mound, kind of a starter version of Colome. Put him together with a good defense and good offense he'd win a lot of games

You put it on non pay TV and viewership would be higher. Just because people don't want to pay for it doesn't mean there isn't interest in it. It's supposed to be America's game let America watch it for free. You get bombarded during a game with commercials telling you what you should buy. I have to buy a TV to watch anything .I have to pay a monthly subscription to watch cable or premium TV. American's are poor and in debt because they are immersed in this "buy" culture. They cant cook, they won't read, they can't grow their own food, they can't start a fire without matches because no one teaches how to just survive . Very few have actual skills. If you want something you buy it, steal it or take it violently. America's enemies just have to figure out how to turn our electricity off and we will all, freeze, starve or kill each other. Ha ! Oops old man yells at cloud . Never mind we're all good . I'm gonna sit in my recliner have a beer and watch the old boob tube and get fat and stupid.

😋For all you kids watching out there: Look the ball into your glove. Otherwise, talk about a train going off the tracks, this thread passes all the tests. I now know that if it weren't for Eddie, the games would be on free for all and we'd be drinking Falstaff from a free tap in our dens. And Falstaff was great before people decided they preferred the taste of tan water.

Hard pass, please.

Whole family got the flu shot today (love how easy they have made it - literally we just pull up in the car, hop out for < 5 minutes and we are done (don't even have to park the car). Hopefully this years shot is pretty effective against the flu - would be a really good year for that to be the case and for it to be a mild mild flu season.

why? Theres already 11k fans at the world series games. There is no justifiable reason not to let fans in the stands next year other than hysteria. Anything less than half capacity at the start of the year is stupid, and they really should just allow full capacity from the onset. Im starting to come around to this. It cease and lopez could be counted on at all then bauer would be the guy they should target. Not sure if i like stroman/Q though. I think if klubers club option is declined they need to go after him. If not, then i think id prefer stroman/gausman as the #3&4 next year.

OMG.... GREASY!!!!

Shifting is just the playing smart defense. It has always been that way. With power hitters OF ers move back with singles hitters they moved in . You don't think the Of ers shifted on Babe Ruth to the right ? Basically shifting less is just dumb baseball. You have reams of data telling you where hitters hit the ball. Of course you are going to shift. It would be like telling a pitcher he cannot pitch away from a pull hitter. You play the game according to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent . It's called strategy. That is inherent in any sport . Deal with it .

Fair enough - I agree with that.

And honestly I'd say the majority of us don't have that confidence in Hahn. And with good reason.

This is a really good list. I’d add Jack McKeon at #5 and call it a day.

You have a strange way of defining young and quality. I assumed you meant young which only wheeler/cole were true on that list. McHugh is a 33 year old spot starter. Lynn is 35, Ryu is 33. I have no qualms about missing out on Eovaldi. Corbin would have been good, but that was also pre-2019 season where I don't mind them still waiting it out.

With the shortened season, spotrac shows the league average payroll at $59 million. That means total player salary for 30 teams comes to $1.8 billion. When they didn’t have to pay staff to open ballparks, does that claimed loss make any sense? It still does not to me. The White Sox’s payroll this year was $43 million. If revenue was 0, that means everyone else would have to blow through $57 million, without having to pay any ballpark employees. Revenue of course is not zero, so all the other staff have to blow what, $100 million to believe that number?

This actually is where I'm at, I just like Odorizzi more than you. But I'd actually be okay with 2 of the following, but especially if we end up L Hendricks, Treinen and depending on scouting/injury report Kela in BP (or colome but I worry about his shoulder). You could convince me on a ton of these as the piece behind Stroman (assuming bauer out of range): Brett Anderson (33) Chase Anderson (33) – $9.5MM club option with a $500K buyout Chris Archer (32) – $11MM club option with a $250K buyout Jake Arrieta (35) Homer Bailey (35) Trevor Bauer (30) Trevor Cahill (33) Tyler Chatwood (31) Anthony DeSclafani (31) Robbie Erlin (30) Mike Fiers (36) Kevin Gausman (30) Gio Gonzalez (35) — $7MM club option with a $500K buyout Cole Hamels (37) J.A. Happ (38) Rich Hill (41) Merrill Kelly (32) — $4.25MM club option with a $500K buyout Corey Kluber (35) — $17.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout Mike Leake (33) — $18MM mutual option with a $5MM buyout Wade LeBlanc (36) Jon Lester (37) — $25MM mutual option with a $10MM buyout Tommy Milone (34) Mike Minor (33) Matt Moore (32) Charlie Morton (37) — $15MM club option with no buyout Jimmy Nelson (32) — $2MM club option (can become $9MM mutual option based on innings total) Ivan Nova (34) Jake Odorizzi (31) James Paxton (32) Martin Perez (30) — $6.25MM club option with a $500K buyout Rick Porcello (32) Jose Quintana (32) Robbie Ray (29) (assume he's more but i'm interested) Garrett Richards (33) Tyson Ross (34) Jeff Samardzija (36) Anibal Sanchez (37) — $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout Matt Shoemaker (34) Drew Smyly (32) Masahiro Tanaka (32) Julio Teheran (30) Michael Wacha (29) Adam Wainwright (39) Taijuan Walker (28) Alex Wood (30) Jordan Zimmermann (35) There are interesting depth pieces this year that could feasibly perform above their heads or at least be a floor of giving legit innings which we can't guarantee Cease can.

Oh, I hear you. I happen to think that adding ~340ish or so IP of ~4 to ~4.25 FIP to this rotation is exactly what this team needs. I would love to add Bauer and his ~180ish or so IP of ~3ish FIP, but then we'd all have to vomit on Lopez's and Cease's starts all year long. And, we'd also probably have to go without re-siging colome, and have to live with a black hole in RF as well. While I share your reservations about "B-level" FAs, looking at Stroman & Q, they're younger, and better than, say Gio Gonzalez. And if signing these two can ALSO allow re-signing Colome and a cromulent, 100 wrc+, +1 or more DRS, ~2.0ish fWAR everyday RFer, I think I'd take it over Bauer and ONLY Bauer signed this offseason.

I wrote about the manager search for today and some of the actual candidates: https://www.southsidesox.com/2020/10/22/21524486/white-sox-job-a-desirable-destination-for-managerial-candidates

I think this is a fair topic. I think Stroman makes sense for the following reasons: 1. This link suggests that there will be some sort of budget, which will preclude spending on top targets in FA. 2. The system still has talent, but is shallow. When you look at it, of the top 10 there will be a lot of graduations, leaving scant reserves from which to trade to improve the 26 man roster. [Seriously, it'll be Kopech, a handful of former prep SPs, and Adolfo atop the prospect lists, once Vaughn arrives here next season.] 3. This guy sucked this year. I mean, he really, really really sucked. Seriously, he sucked out loud at baseball this season. He had the worst BB/9 among SPs in MLB. In a competitive window, this team can't count on him, until he can get his shit sorted. He needs to start 2021 in Charlotte or Schaumburg, and fvkcing get his BB/9 down to a level that won't make you dry heave. 4. This guy is yet another SP who is on his way to bustville. Maybe he's a reason for Coop no longer being here, but he sucked even more than the guy in #3. 5. Over 162, this team will not even make it to the post season if it attempts to start the season with the guys under #3 &#4 in the starting rotation. Back in 2000, the SOX failed to make the postseason, due to an unreliable #5 SP. As currently comprised [Giolito-Keuchel-Dunning-Cease-Lopez], there's no prayer of making the postseason in a regular 162 game grind. Even if the SOX added Bauer, he can't pitch 3 times a week, and you'd have to hold your heaves for Cease and Lopez starts. 6. The payroll will require creativity to maintain future flexibility, when you consider that RF and a closer and an additional BP arm or two are needs, in addition to the gaping holes in the starting rotation. This is particularly important, if this team wants to retain the ability to add throughout the competitive window, and not just blow the entire payroll load in one offseason. 7. This list of FA SPs shows one or two top-end options, and then a cavalcade of geezing geezers, and other vets with their share of questions. If they propose Odorizzi having a market value of $17MM, I'd much rather have Stroman at ~half of that or less, PLUS Q at ~half of that as well. 8. He's had a strong GB rate rate over the course of his career, which could help him provide a good amount of IP, and lessen the burden on the BP over 162. TL/DR: Bauer can help in a playoff series, but he can't pitch more than once every five days. Just to be able to GET TO the playoffs, and to enable Cease re-find the strike zone, I'd rather sign 2 veteran SPs [Stroman/Q], and only have to gamble on Dunning as the #5.

LaRussa was a cutting edge manager, consistently ahead of his peers when it came down to use of statistical analysis. In addition, he was always open to different methods of lineup construction and bullpen usage- far before anyone else was. He caught a lot of hell from the old school throughout his career, but a lot of what he first tested became the norm. He speaks Spanish, and was always known as a players' manager. He is a Hall of Fame manager with 3 World Championships behind him, one 9 years ago. Hinch won one World Series by cheating. If, and this is a big if, LaRussa is still physically and mentally sound, and if he is still open to and in love with stats as he was when he started, the Sox could do a lot worse.. The combination of him and Jirschele in the dugout for the next couple of years, with Jirschele taking over after learning from LaRussa could leave the Sox set for a decade or more.