southsider2k5 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: That too, really. But he's especially anti-Andrew Vaughn. For some reason. Seems personal, haven't quite figured it out. And at the top of that list is a guy who got robbed of pretty much all MiLB experience, yet is going to remain the exact same player he was as a rookie. For some reason, he can't get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said: This is silly. No one is "anti Andrew Vaughn." He simply hasn't been good v RHP yet, and he isn't an OFer. There's nothing "anti" anyone about that statement. We've been over this many times. Andrew Vaughn's splits as a rookie who had never played above A ball are borderline meaningless to me, and the vast majority of anyone who paid attention to the Sox last year feel the same. Except you. You want to send him to AAA and groom him to become a weakside platoon DH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: We've been over this many times. Andrew Vaughn's splits as a rookie who had never played above A ball are borderline meaningless to me, and the vast majority of anyone who paid attention to the Sox last year feel the same. Except you. You want to send him to AAA and groom him to become a weakside platoon DH. A. And more cogently, theres nothing "anti Andrew Vaughn" in stating that he hasn't yet fulfilled the entirety of his potential, yet. B. Because he hasn't yet reached his potential, if he isn't the best option for the roster, yes he should finish his training in AAA. C. (And this is important) I've never said I've wanted him to be a platoon DH. Don't believe me? Feel free to search my positing history. If I haven't posted such a thing, feel free to reverse yourself. That aside, given the lack of a RFer, I'd rather not also open up a hole in LF until RF is solved first. But in no way do I endorse Vaughn or Sheets for OF at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: And at the top of that list is a guy who got robbed of pretty much all MiLB experience, yet is going to remain the exact same player he was as a rookie. For some reason, he can't get better. Gordon Beckham and Avi Garcia couldn’t get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Just now, Jerksticks said: Gordon Beckham and Avi Garcia couldn’t get better. Well, that's it, its over. Gordon Beckham didn't get better. And Avi did get better, it just took leaving Chicago to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Well, that's it, its over. Gordon Beckham didn't get better. And Avi did get better, it just took leaving Chicago to do it. What? All I meant was that a lot of time and seasons were spent hoping and waiting. That seems like a possible outcome here as well, right? Sorry if that wasn’t clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 52 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The obvious issue with this stat is that it's likely biased by injury - when he was feeling healthy they'd put him in the OF, when he wasn't feeling right or was coming back from a previous injury, those were the days when he was selectively put at DH. The bulk of his DH time came last year and up through 9/17 he rotated between DH & LF on a pretty frequent basis. I’m not sure health had a big impact here, but I will point out his splits between DH & LF would have been even more extreme if you ignore the 13 consecutive games he played in LF from 9/18 to season’s end and posted a 80 wRC+. Again, none of this statistical significant, but it’s a red flag worth pointing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 So I got on the MLBTR chat last week and they were trying to come up with the next Trout. They mentioned a few names, so I said, how about Robert? The "expert" told me Robert doesn't make adjustments, he'll never be like Trout. OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 49 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Blind squirrel, meet nut. Also: Kimbrel, Shields, Samardzija, Mazara, Durham, and many others, too! You’re ignoring a ton of awesome trades that KW and Hahn have made though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: So I got on the MLBTR chat last week and they were trying to come up with the next Trout. They mentioned a few names, so I said, how about Robert? The "expert" told me Robert doesn't make adjustments, he'll never be like Trout. OK. He makes it look so easy they don't recognize the adjustment. If he could just adjust his health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 58 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Blind squirrel, meet nut. Also: Kimbrel, Shields, Samardzija, Mazara, Durham, and many others, too! We're including Durham? Well, shit. Konerko, Contreras, Garcia, Peavy, Kopech, Moncada, Eloy, Cease, Giolito, Dunning, Lynn, Garland, Valentin, Quentin, Podsednik! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, Quin said: We're including Durham? Well, shit. Konerko, Contreras, Garcia, Peavy, Kopech, Moncada, Eloy, Cease, Giolito, Dunning, Lynn, Garland, Valentin, Quentin, Podsednik! Don't let facts get in the way of a good @Two-Gun Pete shitpost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 White sox still sending out "Don't miss any of the action" emails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 50 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Again, none of this statistical significant, but it’s a red flag worth pointing out. Its fair to point out, but its also fair to recognize a much bigger red flag is Eloy's inability to stay healthy while playing a horrible defensive LF. He's a DH. Its time he come to grips with it. We have an in-house option who is already at least a comparable defensive LF who can certainly improve with more rep and he isn't an injury risk to everyone within 50 foot radius of him. FWIW - I expect the Sox to play Eloy in LF most of the time in 22. I just think its a really, really, really (did I say really?) bad decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Its fair to point out, but its also fair to recognize a much bigger red flag is Eloy's inability to stay healthy while playing a horrible defensive LF. He's a DH. Its time he come to grips with it. We have an in-house option who is already at least a comparable defensive LF who can certainly improve with more rep and he isn't an injury risk to everyone within 50 foot radius of him. FWIW - I expect the Sox to play Eloy in LF most of the time in 22. I just think its a really, really, really (did I say really?) bad decision. I’m not saying we shouldn’t move Eloy to DH, I’m just pointing out you may not get exactly the same hitter. Do I think he’s a 70 wRC+ guy as an everyday DH? No, but I do believe guys get in their heads more frequently when they don’t play the field and it should be a consideration at minimum. I agree though, I expect Eloy to spend a sizable portion of his time next year in LF. That doesn’t make it the right decision, but I’m not sure the Sox are ready to commit him to DH full-time just yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Anyone know what Austin Meadows slash line would have looked without the shift? He was hurt the most by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Hypothetically, if Eloy is the full tine DH, there would be little justification to have Vaughn on the roster. Much as I hate to admit it, Vaughn is the slowest player on the team and he probably still has some boxing out to do as he finishes growing into his 5'11" man body. Vaughn's upside is all about projection od his College numbers and the incessant promotion by Steve Stone and others. Dude hit .235 in 2021. Eloy is 6' 4". He is reasonably fast , has excellent reach and has some athleticism. However, like many major league LFers, he is out there based on his bat. He is a .275 combined hitter so, and he played after a serious injury last season. Eloy had a freak injury but he is no more injury prone that Engel, Luis Robert, Grandal, and many other players. Most players spend time on the injured list during the 162 game season. TLR asked Eloy to play a more conservative LF, and that should cut down on diving plays and the chance for injury. The Sox will live with less than Gold Glove D for 100 games if they get 30-35 HR from that position. Bottom line is that Eloy is going to be the WS Left fielder and Abreu will be our first basemen. Vaughn will be a platoon player unless Sheets proves he can hande RH and LH pitching. it is what it is, like it or lump it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Enter the other character who hates Andrew Vaughn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, tray said: Hypothetically, if Eloy is the full tine DH, there would be little justification to have Vaughn on the roster. Much as I hate to admit it, Vaughn is the slowest player on the team and he probably still has some boxing out to do as he finishes growing into his 5'11" man body. Vaughn's upside is all about projection od his College numbers and the incessant promotion by Steve Stone and others. Dude hit .235 in 2021. Eloy is 6' 4". He is reasonably fast , has excellent reach and has some athleticism. However, like many major league LFers, he is out there based on his bat. He is a .275 combined hitter so, and he played after a serious injury last season. Eloy had a freak injury but he is no more injury prone that Engel, Luis Robert, Grandal, and many other players. Most players spend time on the injured list during the 162 game season. TLR asked Eloy to play a more conservative LF, and that should cut down on diving plays and the chance for injury. The Sox will live with less than Gold Glove D for 100 games if they get 30-35 HR from that position. Bottom line is that Eloy is going to be the WS Left fielder and Abreu will be our first basemen. Vaughn will be a platoon player unless Sheets proves he can hande RH and LH pitching. it is what it is, like it or lump it. If it was A freak injury, we wouldn't still be talking about it. But it has been a serious of not just bad luck, or random injuries, but stupid injuries and stupid plays. I don't care how "fast" a guy is, if he has the defensive IQ of a brick, it doesn't matter. Those other guys aren't getting hurt in the same manner of Eloy's injuries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Enter the other character who hates Andrew Vaughn. I don't fall in love with any prospect or player based on hype. I watch the games and do my own talent evaluation. Vaughn has power but this far it seems like he is mainly a line drive hitter. That is great except it would be even better of he had even average speed on the bases. His power would be more impactful for the team if he hit more than 15 HR. I don't dislike the player but from what I have seen, I prefer Sheets as full time DH with Eloy in LF for most games, with Vaughn getting spots as a platoon player. Vaughn makes the most sense as an add-on in a kimbrell trade. I think a trade with the Dodgers for those two could be very useful to both teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Speaking of Eloy, I watched videos of all his homers in his career. He’s not fat by any means, but he sure put on a lot of weight the last few years. I’m sure the injury impacted his conditioning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, tray said: I don't fall in love with any prospect or player based on hype. I watch the games and do my own talent evaluation. Vaughn has power but this far it seems like he is mainly a line drive hitter. That is great except it would be even better of he had even average speed on the bases. His power would be more impactful for the team if he hit more than 15 HR. I don't dislike the player but from what I have seen, I prefer Sheets as full time DH with Eloy in LF for most games, with Vaughn getting spots as a platoon player. Vaughn makes the most sense as an add-on in a kimbrell trade. I think a trade with the Dodgers for those two could be very useful to both teams. An add-on to a Kimbrel trade??? Vaughn is a highly valuable asset and is in a different stratosphere value wise than Craig. Packaging them together makes very little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, fathom said: Speaking of Eloy, I watched videos of all his homers in his career. He’s not fat by any means, but he sure put on a lot of weight the last few years. I’m sure the injury impacted his conditioning. yes he did. I mentioned this prior to last year and was told it was normal to get fat pre-season.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: An add-on to a Kimbrel trade??? Vaughn is a highly valuable asset and is in a different stratosphere value wise than Craig. Packaging them together makes very little sense. If Vaughn is an "add on" in a deal, we had better be getting Ohtani or the like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Dick Allen said: White sox still sending out "Don't miss any of the action" emails. I wish I could not "miss any of the action" unfortunately their boss locked us all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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