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No doubts from me. We sign BOTH!

Hopefully something more substantive comes out soon so either sides lynch mob can get to work and this pointless 12 hours of hypothetical back and forths can die.

Not landing a whale would be a failure of epic proportions. I’m willing to give the Sox the benefit of the doubt here that they realize this and plan to offer obscene amounts of money to both of these guys. If they do in fact blow out the competition with their offers, the chance they land of one them should be incredibly high. That’s the construct I’m operating under and maybe that’s foolish given our track record, but I truly believe this time is different. Rick Hahn & KW’s cockiness tell me as much. For now, I’m putting my eggs in their basket and am prepared to go down with the ship if need be.

The longer this goes unacknowledged by other new outlets the better the situation is for the Sox. You just know someone somewhere is trying to confirm with either party whether a deal is in place but 24 hours has passed and not a peep. I also pointed out the MLBTR thing today and it basically shows even they are questioning the legitimacy of this "news".

They don't have any top end prospects.

I'm not buying the tweet by Dan Clarke. It doesn't make sense. I've been saying all a long that Machado will be a White Sox player. Yankees don't have the money that he will demand. If Machado does go to the Yankees, I will very eagerly wait and hear reports from Hahn and co. as to why they couldn't get Machado. I will likely be very upset. If the White Sox also don't get Harper, I will be furious. Sometimes, you can't help it and these guys go to their desired destinations, but that's shit for baseball. There's a reason I don't watch any NBA anymore ... due to this kind of shit. If Harper/Machado go to the big dogs, and our offseaso n moves are summed up by Nova/McCann/Colome/Alonso, I'll happily forfeit my baseball hobby in place for other more interesting hobbies and forget the White Sox exist. But for now, I am firmly believing Machado's ours!

What the fuck are you even talking about anymore? We traded for Freddy Garcia. What does that have to do with signing an amateur free agent (Luis Robert).

Nobody that trades for Heyward is getting a good deal.

The Sox had to offer crazy money to get Machado. If they didn't, they weren't serious. That said, even crazy money may not be enough. At some point there is declining marginal utility of money. He wants to win.

I've been a big supporter of Hahn, but if he misses on the big 2, does nothing else this offseason, and the team shows no improvement in 2019, he needs to be gone.

My opinion on the FAs is for the most part distinct from KW and RH. From a macro perspective, these are 2nd/3rd tier free agents who are hole-pluggers. We don't know what the holes will be in 2 years when the Sox should be ready to win. Machado/Harper are different - they are cornerstones and holes are plugged around them. I'm not interested in Pollack because he's a)declined and b)the Sox have CF candidates that should be ready in a year or 2. No interesting Moustakas because I don't think he's anything more than average and he's an OBP killer; Grandal is probably the best of the bunch but he's tied to a draft pick, the Sox have 2 catchers, and much of his skill is based on "framing" a stat that I think has at least some correlation with the quality of the pitchers to begin with.

The fact you call 2014 to 2016 a “rebuild” shows you are unable to be objective in this conversation.

It’s one thing to live and die with every rumor, it’s another to adhere to the time of the rumor’s appearance as if it’s not something that could’ve existed before...

I’d be absolutely enraged, but that’s just me.

I despise the idea of Moncada at 3rd. Just seems like such a waste.

I know it won't satisfy the torch wielding mobs, but in reality, the Sox always had an uphill battle for these guys. Hahn saying they would be aggressive in chasing them isn't the same thing as saying they would sign them. He even knew that which is why he talked about if they couldn't they could always stay on the former course. In these two specific cases, the fact that both players had a place they really wanted to go, and the fact that the Sox were in rebuilding mode was always going to be working against them. Most people wanted the rebuild, but this was the downside of starting that cycle.

This is where I’m at, pretty much. If we don’t land a whale I’d be fine if the FO got a shake-up. There is no excuse, this was my expectation from the moment they traded Sale and later set themselves up for having zero significant payroll obligations in the future. If you can’t make yourself appealing to a FA when you’re the team offering them the most money, I’m not gonna be one of the fans who’s saying “at least you tried”.

Nah

Trading for a future core piece would be great. Trading for Encarnacion would be insane.

Coping mechanism of expecting failure from the White Sox.

The Sox management are the ones that created this undesirable team to play for. If it's that bad where even offering the most money doesn't lure guys in, then that shows that the damage they have caused might be far worse than us fans realized. I mean, even if you forgive or forget about everything that happened before the rebuild. Management has gone out of their way to be as bad as possible the last few years. They're tanking for picks. They weren't filling gaping holes on the roster. There's pros and cons to that. They got Nick Madigral and will have the 3rd pick next year. But it might of cost them Manny Machado. He see that triple digit loss total, and he sees that as the New Year is about to roll over, they've done little to nothing this off-season to change that. Well maybe he doesn't want to be part of this losing culture that they are continuing to foster, even as they pursue him and Bryce Harper?

Your last paragraph isn’t accurate. You may have posted about landing theses guys more than anyone. Your heart appears set on it occurring, and there have been no insiders that have ever given the White Sox more than a punchers chance. This might be BS, it might not. But all of a sudden the Sox seem interested in players that don’t match up with a Machado signing, and it is from an insider Morosi, who you would bank on. Things are lining up not how we wished. It is getting to be that time we all accepted it, and get pleasantly surprised if it turns into something different.

Is this the same PM exchange you were talking about when Ron said something big was happening with the Cubs that exact day and nothing ever did?

I’m still confused by this report from Rock. First he said that Schwarber and Heyward “will be dealt”. Then he said they might not be able to move Heyward. So which is it? Do they have a deal in place, or are they just exploring trade options? Doesn’t sound like anything official to me.

How does anyone? Just because he's a beat reporter doesn't mean he can't get random sources like the the rest of us can.

Yo peavy44 and his guy were right all this time

If there's one thing that sums up the last decade of white sox teams, it is overpaying to fill the DH position with a player who falls off a cliff once acquired.

Bulls at least draw fans But yes, if Sox miss on both, Reinsdorf should be ashamed at what's happened to his two franchises. His loyalty to underperforming executives is inexcusable.

Just a lot of whining about how the big guys aren't gonna give him any credit when Machado signs with the Yankees, and how he's putting his entire reputation on the line as if we need to commend him for it

Would have felt much better if there was anything suggesting it was false today

There is zero chance the Sox trade for EE and move him to 3B.

The penalties are harsh enough though. They are stopping the majority of big market teams from going over. Boston and Washington did it. That's it. The problem for free agents is that every team received $50 million from MLBAM this year and the small market teams still aren't spending $$. The large market teams (owners, investors) don't like putting money right into the pockets of their small market competitors. I think Yanks, Red Sox, Cubs etc should spend up to that $246 million line but I completely understand not wanting to go over it.

The Yankees clearly have the money.

There is a difference between having the strongest offers and being Tom Hicks and paying Arod $250m though. I think they’d like to get as close to the former (and still sign the guy(s)) than the latter.

If we dont get harper or machado and yonder, martinez or encarnacion are playing for the White Sox I will then be convinced that they are clueless as an organization.

Pomeranz & Cody Allen.

$60-80 million for Pollock and $22 million to Moustakas for two years will be then cited as major reasons we couldn’t afford any premier free agents next offseason.

Holy fuck this board needs an official announcement badly. No rumor can cure this. Only an official announcement on what team he is going to play for.

I wish our 1b or Dh disappointments could produce like that.

Who’s to say they didn’t?

Agreed

I said from Day 1 this winter that we either need to land whales or stay the course. Past MM and BH, I hate the idea of guys who either aren't temp fillers, or guy who won't be on our next playoff team. Pollack and Moostaskis would be mistakes.

This has been the best post in a long time.

Exactly. A rebuild on the fly again. It would be trash. If we dont land ine one of the whales, I’ll be much happier with Hahn if we stand pat and don’t make a move and just stay the course of acquiring talent. Anything else would look like panic.

I don’t really care what 95% of fans care about. Rick and Kenny should have the opportunity to see through what they are building. If you didn’t believe that, you should have fired them and brought in someone else to dismantle the mlb team after the ‘16 season. Nearly everything they’ve done since the Chris Sale trade has been to put this franchise in a position to sustainably compete, and despite some of the early returns on those moves being frustrating, if you look at the Astros and Cubs rebuilds, it was never about the success of a few guys, but instead, the success of the plan. We need to allow the plan to play out, and not bail because Lucas Giolito or Yoan Moncada are a bit frustrating in their first full seasons.

They pretty much challenged themselves with these two. Hahn has often mentioned that the White Sox don’t operate they way they used to. That the money was there for a piece they needed. KW stated the piece or pieces they needed were available now. So if they miss, something doesn’t add up. As my guy Geddy Lee used to sing, the more things change, the more they stay the same. 2nd place doesn’t cut it.

This is a lot of past tense for two guys who are currently free agents.

Didn't Hahn say last winter that things would be different the next winter? I could of swore he said that was the last winter of not doing anything worthwhile. Because when the winter meetings started this year, and him and Kenny both were saying it was a year early - my first thought was, of crap they're moving the goalposts on us now.

All I know is that the idea of the Cubs being in play for Harper is a great way for Boras to drive up the WS offer. I still think the WS are the favorite to land Harper. If he was set on either the Dodgers or Cubs he would have either (1) signed by now or (2) there would be more activity and moving pieces involving those clubs (I’m not convinced the Dodgers view OF as their greatest area of need and best use of resources). I’ll be getting together with one of my buddies that works for the Sox marketing department on NYE. I’ll be curious to see what his thoughts are on the entire situation.

Color me shocked that Prep is complaining about women's belts. I would love to watch Sasha/Baley more. Deville/Rose, yes please. There are options that can make this good. Of course they have to book them right, but it's definitely a positive and we have to give it a chance. The booking in general is pretty poor in all aspects of the WWE. We'll see what happens