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Such a weird debate some of you are backing. The Angels got Joc for nothing bc the current price, due to the Dodgers' needs post Mookie trade, was much less than it was before they landed Betts. Had we traded for Joc prior to LA landing Betts we would have had to pay much more (Bummer was the reported ask). So the only argument would be to have gone into February with the same RF situation as last year while we hoped LA traded for Betts and made Joc's asking price less. IMO Mazara is the perfect fit for our 2020 needs. He is only 24 and has upside. He makes us better in RF compared to 19. We can cut him if he sucks. We can still go after Joc next year if we want.

What a massive overreaction.

Or we could just stop engaging with you and move along to more important things in life.

I guess I'm glad the Sox didn't wait Until the eve of Spring Training in hopes that the Betts trade was done with the dodgers in order to make Joc available and cheaper than normal. because it would be the Sox luck that Joc was traded to the Angels regardless

There was nothing stopping the White Sox from trading for Pederson yesterday.

His Achilles injuries not ankle injuries had nothing to do with his weight. Most of the people who tear them are the fit athletic people who ignore the tendonopathy which precedes the tear. Judging by some comments being made the second one was probably due to lack of dedication to rehab.

Pissed off Astros fans.

It isn’t black and white. One side is proclaiming a grievance based on previously unavailable hindsight. We have what we have and that’s it. Move on.

You guys realize that if the Sox had waited this long to fill RF the Dodgers would have thus had multiple suitors and held out for more, right?

I predict, I am gonna say it like I mean it..... I predict, Jake Burger is done with baseball.

I am also with Jack here. A certain buy low guy. If nothing happens, who it's fine. He will still be one of the best #8 hitters if nothing else. But he also has a chance (albeit small) to explode. Joc is who Joc is. Joc > Mazara obviously.. But Mazara's ceiling > Joc.

I am not one to defend this FO and had been advocating these clowns to be fired for too long now. It is lost cause with JR and his son in charge so I don’t even bother these days. What I don’t get is your infatuation with Sexton and constant attempt to belittle WCJ who is a fine young player. I get that in the new age NBA you need ball handlers, and shooters to build a dynamic offense. While Sexton fits the bill, he is also terribly limited in other areas and struggles defensively not being able to defend bigger guys. It’s no coincidence he’s one of the worst defensive guards in the league for the second year in a row, while on the other hand WCJ is a top 20 defensive big across several metrics. As others have pointed out, you do notice the difference defensively after WCJ went down with injury. And this isn’t Trae Young we’re talking about, while being a smaller guard could change the game in a number of ways with elite skill sets You’re a stats guy, so I trust that you have looked past his scoring numbers and looked at advanced stats - WS VORP, PER, on/off court differentials, RPM, etc. I don’t see Sexton even being close to making the impact WCJ does. I am not into getting into a debate that Wendell’s growth has been stunted by playing for a coach who has no business coaching in the NBA and who has shown no success whatsoever drawing up a game plan for his big men on offense.

There are so many fake obstacles in here it’s ridiculous. Oh they’d have to beat the angels offer in a short amount of time?!?!?! They’d have to trade a player teams know they don’t need? Why that hasn’t happened since...the last time Mazara was traded. It can’t be done dammit! I’ll give shorthand to the last 13 pages: any move the Sox make is not only the best move, but the only move that could ever have been possible forever and ever amen.

Here's a good example of a player who injected after age 26/27.

Ideally? An employee of a major billion dollar company speaking in a role as a representative of that company on a public network.

lol, some people think you can turn chicken shit into chicken salad. they can safely be ignored.

Everybody would prefer a better player in RF. That's...not even an argument. But Steele Walker is not a lamentable loss.

I don't really understand all the outrage over not getting Pederson. Yeah he's better than Mazara, but he's only a 1 year rental. And it's not like Hahn could have foreseen that Pederson would be traded for next to nothing in February. I'm not Hahn's biggest fan by any means but I don't see this as something worth being that upset about.

God I'm so glad the Sox didn't think Ozuna or Castellanos were actually good options.

Don't need to try again. You continue to rehash the same thing but don't address any points people are making. This post in question had nothing to do with what happened at the time of the mazara trade. It had everything to do with what would have happened if the trade hadn't occurred.

You are so cool.

1. Ozuna was a bad fit. 2. That Castellanos contract is horrendoes 3. we couldn't wait months and months in the hopes the Dodgers would trade Betts and make Joc expendable.. Clearly Joc wasn't avaialble at this cost prior..

Again, you missing the point of posts. He isn't saying that there weren't better options. He was saying that if the Sox waited until today to acquire a player would would have been complaining the whole time that they don't have one yet. In your post, Castellanos and Ozuna aren't available today so they don't count.

False. Better options than Mazara were acquired after the move was made — Ozuna, Castellanos, and now Joc.

Again, the price for Joc was not the same 2 months ago as it was yesterday. The price for Joc + Strip went down because the Dodgers had to shed salary to stay under the cap after acquiring Mookie - belief around the game is the only directive Friedman was given this off-season was to get under the threshold and reset the tax. This opens up the ability to re-sign Mookie next off-season and not pay through the roof in tax. This forced the Dodgers to trade Joc + for less than they wanted because they had to dump the salary to get under the threshold.

Close this thread. It's one of the dumbest arguments ever. Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn won a championship. John Paxson's reign of terror is going on year #18 with 5 playoff series wins and 7 head coaches. It's not even close to the same.

Better option at what price that is the key factors. Pederson was not an option at the time. He was recently but it's not worth the extra capital. As the original poster said, pederson has flaws as well and you are over valuing him based on what the Sox acquired which has nothing to do with his value to the Angels.

He was a below replacement level player in 148 game in 2017 and has never even had a 1 WAR season. He has one skill, hitting RHP, and if he doesn't thrive at that then he's not even worth playing. His floor is higher than Charlie Tilson, Ryan Cordell, and Daniel Palka though, I'll give him that.

Thanks for being rational. Mazara has a huge ceiling still. Only 24.

Not sure if been mentioned before but some players and families do have good relationships with organizations. It’s not entirely out of the question the LAD wanted to treat Joc right and keep him in or close to LA with his family If they were going to move him.

They got too far into analytics for this one. One of the primary reasons cited for the pick was his really high ranking NCAA exit velocity

Who doesn't?

Who the hell has this kind of time?

I never said you can't . I just pointed out that you don't use it in the context of the question and/or post that you are responding to. We all know your view on it and you certainly can say whatever you want. However, you continually twist whatever post to which you are responding back to the same topic instead of the post to which you are responding. It doesn't matter if someone calls me out or nails me on anything. The point still remains about replying to the content of the actual posts.

No Balta I didn't make any rules. I said i was concerned more about the future. There are no rules that go along with that. You are the one putting limits on how I see the future. Please show me this list of rules so I can show them to everyone. I think Joc for 1 year was dumb. I think Mazara has upside just like any prospect they are hoping realizes upside. Him reaching it is good for the future. Any of them reaching it is good for the future among the 25 or so other players on the 40 or in AAA or AA who might be useful in 2021 and beyond.. Any one of the players signed for more than 1 year is good for current and 1or 2 or 3 future years. You are just arguing to catch me in some kind of flaw in my logic. You aren't even arguing for one player over the other. I really did used to like you as a poster now I have no idea where you are coming from.

There's no actual outrage it's the same 2 guys who always complain about Mazara. Not a lot of people wanted Mazara but now it is what it is and there's a good deal of upside . He is younger than Giolitio, and Lopez. Hes about a year older than Kopech, Sheets and Burger and less than a year older then Cease and Luis Gonzalez. Jimmy Lambert is older . It takes a lot of talent to make it to the Bigs at 21 yrs old. They hope he makes some progress despite his production being consistently average. There is upside to him just like the guys close to his age that still haven't done anything the Sox are also counting on. The only difference is in the years of control. And you are right it's not worth discussing it any more.

Apparently you forget that Rome wasn't built in a day ? You have to start getting better some time so there's a difference between having guys for multiple years than just one year at a price the Sox weren't willing to pay . You are trying to tell me every fix can be made in one year ? Again trollish . Being better and getting a better read on the young players on the Sox and in the minors is very important to attract free agents and asses they needs for 2021 and beyond. Even if they don't win but improve a lot they still have those guys for 2021 . And we get to see how Moncada ,Giolito, Cease Lopez, Dunning, Rodon, Vaughn, Madrigal, Robert ,Anderson, Mazara, Basabe, Adolfo, Rutherford Luis Gonzales, Burdi and others do with another year.

what good is "control" of a C+, likely AAAA OF? Not much. And you're acting like Mazara is only a 2020 player. He could be a short or medium or even long term RF option.

Yeah but you just contradicted yourself, you said you were concerned more about beyond 2020 and then you just admitted that Walker has as good of a shot at contributing to a team as any of the other outfielders and yet you were willing to sacrifice that guy for Mazara in 2020. If you were "more concerned about the team beyond 2020" you would want as many options beyond 2020 as possible as you don't know that any of them will work out.

Yeah, which is a real problem within the game. There is no penalty for spending nothing and profiting endless, but there is a penalty for spending at the top of the bracket. It's very anti-player, and I'm shocked they didn't see this problem beforehand.

Massive failure in talent evaluation by Hostetler or whoever made the Draft pick. Far worse than the Hawkins pick. Hawkins could do a back flip when he was Drafted. Burgur's ankles could not support his weight.

The White Sox made the right move by kicking the RF can down the street for another year. Of all the players acquired this off-season, I have a sneaky feeling that the Mazara haters will likely look bad by the end of the year. If they don't look bad, then the Sox bought another year for OF prospects to develop, while still having options on the FA market. I have no issues with the Mazara deal; I didn't at the time, and I still don't. Nearly every rebuild has a come-from-nowhere story of a player developing to a talent level that he was unable to reach before. Mazara may be that piece for the White Sox.

Yes. I heard that Bummer was the asking price this year.

He's been trashing WCJ since he was a rookie last year and was the second best (some might argue the best although I won't go that far) Bulls player (by far the best defender). It's a bit odd.

No. But he is a friend of mine. He didn't kick him, he punched him. AJ took a bounced pitched to the balls. When the trainer came to him to ask him how he feels, AJ punched him and said "like this, what do you think."

It fits nicely with the awful ST jerseys. I know a lot of people like them but I can't get past the big batterman logo on the front directly next to the big standard logo on the sleeve

They called Miami "Florida" and spelled Cincinnati wrong...so I think that is your answer.

An athletic rim protector who could switch to cover smaller players and with range out to the 3 point line does not fit in today's NBA? Wow this guy is drunk. In fact, look at Ray Ray drunk.