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Lol...who is trying to dumb Madrigal other than Harold & fathom? Fangraphs has him ranked 35th, MLBpipeline has him ranked 36th, & Baseball America has him 43rd. But I guess they missed those handful of fielding & base-running gaffes during his first major league season that suddenly erodes all his prospect value. And let’s ignore that .340 BA he put up that corresponded with an xBA of nearly .340. And I could give two shits that fans want to dump Cease for struggling during a bizarre pandemic fueled season and despite having less than a full season worth of starts. I’d wager large sums of money his value has diminished all that much and that almost every organization in baseball would love to get his hands on him and tap into his massive potential. Guys literally don’t go from the 25th prospect in baseball (where he capped out at with the major publications) to losing all their value over a poor 26 starts without an major injury or a complete loss of stuff. He has obviously lost some value, but professional front offices are way more patient than the common message board fan. Using Soxtalk as a point of reference for Cease’s value is laughable.

He isn't good defensively. Blackmon is paid 18.3m per year on average for 3 more years. He will be 34-36 during these years. He has a .747 OPS away from Coors. I'm not paying that dude 18m a year for 3 years when he is that old. The Sox wouldn't take him for free.

This is a poll with choices in it.

Why are you the way that you are?

If you go to their BP minor league page they will tell you if they were top 100 in BA, MLB and BP. They both were pre 2020. In fact, they both were top 26 guys for BP coming into this past 60 game season.

Blackmon is 34 years old, is no longer a good defender, is coming off a poor offensive season, and is scheduled to make $22M in each of the next two seasons. We can literally sign Joc Pederson for like 1/$10M and probably end up with a better player (when factoring Engel’s side of the platoon) for half the price.

Originally I had big plans for a lot of White Sox merch this Christmas, until the TLR train wreck happened. Instead this is my gift to myself. https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/refurbished-powershot-g1-x-mark-iii

How on earth could you possibly know who we are targeting, how much we will pay, contract values, length of contracts, cash contributions and timing if you don't tune in to this knowlegeable group who are all obviously connected to and in the room with Hahn during these discussions ?

Dunno about "satisfied," but I think this sort of offseason is what is likely to occur. I think Bauer and Springer are pipedreams; I think the offseason as you describe, coupled with average team health, average on field management, and a reasonable degree of progress from the extant roster should lead to the postseason in 2021.

Trumps legal team needs to be sanctioned for their frivolous suits. Their law licenses should be on the line.

Yep. Let's not use independent player rankings, zips, surplus value or likely competitive bidding for determining relative trade value when proposing trades. Instead, let's just go with our subjective viewpoints on what other teams should accept from us for their premiere talent.

Trade value is hard. I think surplus value is useless, and would really stress that there are more trades that have happened than just ones sox have executed. But yeah, if you are going to criticize others for not understanding value, get the value correct yourself. Im loathe to trade Vaughn. But if you decide Snell is that piece, I do think the rays listen. Him and Franco will add a really nice offensive profile to that team that needed more runs, and they have been so successful getting pitching performance. Marquez I’m just not interested in. The talent premium you are paying is for cost and control and that’s not a sox need right now. Snell it’s an added benefit, but main thing is he is a top pitcher you can’t get otherwise. But it isn’t happening and I think next few years there will be an opportunity for an ace at a reasonable cost. They need to be patient and scout well for productive depth until then.

Q put up 4.9, 4.3, and 4.9 fWAR in the seasons leading up to that trade. Marquez has 1 season above 4, with a 4.1 fWAR two seasons ago. Cease was in A and Eloy was in A+ during those trades. They weren't close to being MLB ready. I would bet that Vaughn and Kopech together put up a similar WAR total to Marquez NEXT season, even with service time gaming. You're doing our prospects dirty, Balta. Hahn should get tarred and feathered if he trades Vaughn and Kopech for Marquez

Yoan Moncada was the consensus #1 prospect in baseball at the time and Kopech was consensus top 30. Compare the value of the top 2 - Kopech and Vaughn are what, 1 top 15, one top 30 right now if they counted? Kopech might even be top 50? If Vaughn is the centerpiece, he's way below the value of Moncada at the time, generally he's somewhere around #10-15 so something else has to make up the difference between a #1 prospect included and a #10-15 prospect, and that has to be pieces 3-4. That's how I got to Vaughn, Kopech, Cease, and Madrigal - top 2 don't match the Sale deal, but back 2 make up the difference. Madrigal (top 100), Dunning might be borderline top 100 based on what he did this year, Cease and Stiever are outside the top 100 but moderately close? Even if Tampa Bay really, really liked those guys, they can easily find better talent.

If I were Tampa Bay, I would not give up Snell for that deal as if I were moving Snell I would expect I could get better than that from someone else. You are adding Kopech to the list or I'll find better elsewhere. Kopech, Vaughn, Madrigal, and Cease - you've probably got a deal. That contract is expensive for Tampa Bay, but under control for 3 years for that money, with a Cy Young award, money that works for 28/30 teams, you're talking a Sale level deal for him.

What is there to be skeptical of? Arizona placed a guy that the White Sox scouts liked on waivers. The White Sox claimed him. This sort of thing happens every offseason for every team.

Not the worst deal Hahn ever did. Most laughable, though.

His splits away from Coors are bad. Throw in that he will be 35 in July and makes close to $20M in 2021 and the years after that are player option years. I rather just pay Bauer $30M /year for 5 years as our 1 big off season acquisition and fill in around him and not dick around giving out 3 or 4 $10M contracts or taking on an aging RF for multiple years.

He’s bad defensively. He’s not young. He’s still a pretty good hitter, though.

I feel the same and also throw in Gallo and Pederson

Why?

Last season was my first season being in a group for season tickets. Our money will roll over into next season but I would gladly take a refund if I could get one. I hope the team wins but I can't be 100 percent all in like I was before TLR.

thanks

Paul Sullivan was on with Laurence Holmes and shared my opinion that Jerry was going to hire "his guy" regardless of what the Sox did in Oakland, and that it was made before the Cleveland series. I don't think Rick or Kenny had a say in the firing or hiring, and think Rick Renteria would have returned in 2021 if Jerry didn't intercede. 32:45-35:25 mark for discussion regarding the entire debacle. https://www.radio.com/670thescore/podcasts/laurence-holmes-on-670-the-score-61/holmes-paul-sullivan-interview-hour-1-350531224

It would hurt filling the RF and SP holes both with a trade of prospects, given that Hahn has stated that the money saved during the rebuild years would be spent in the future. That trade would be prospect heavy IMO.

I like this a lot

Joey Gallo would be an interesting target for RF. Gold glover, bats lefty, gets on base, massive power.

Hall of Fame Baseball Person......who is a drunk

He is a HOFer drunk person, He’s legit brother.

Never forget. The dorf wills you just forget. But never forget anyway.

Heyward and Darvish should come with a ton of cash if we did that, but the fit is good enough. We also shouldn't give up too much in that. I don't really want to trade with Texas. I'd rather sign Lynn as a FA and I don't want Gallo at all. Marquez would be nice, but Blackmon wouldn't improve our defense. Now if we moved Blackmon to LF and Eloy to DH and still got a RF then out OF D would be significantly better, but then we would have to either move Abreu or Vaughn, or delay Vaughn until midseason or longer. I'm not really interested in dealing with the Royals either. I'll just say it too: Merrifield is a pretty shitty RF. He's still a 2B in RF IMO. I would be interested if the Sox trade Madrigal but even if that was the case I'd much rather put Mendick out there than give up whatever the Royals will ask for Merrifield. I don't think Hader fits that well here. I think Hader would be a good fit for the Yankees who have several pieces like Cessa, Loaisiga, Montgomery, etc. that they can trade now and then they can add some lower-level talent to the package, and that might be good for MIL if they rebuild/reload. Cain OTOH is interesting but he's best utilized as a CF and we're not moving Robert. I really don't think MIL is a fit for us unless they make Yelich available which they won't, and I think Woodruff would be way too costly and there's no reason for them to move him so soon with so much control left. I think Snell is most likely, personally. TB is always willing to send out a big contract and we have the pieces to make that deal.

New bold predictions for us: Springer - 5/$125M (announced this Tuesday) Richards - 1/$10M Colome - 1/$7M Lynn - Acquired for Stiever, Adolfo, & Sosa

I know everyone gets their "pet" idea to solve all the sox offseason problems each year. I have had some that I keep coming back to. So I have a few trade pairings from the same club and was interested which one you think would help the Sox most for the 2021 season only to win. Assume the trade package would be equal/fair or even substantial to all the things that have been thrown out on this strand. I look forward to hearing your answers. Hader and Cain Blackmon and Marquez Lynn and Gallo Heyward and Darvish Merrifield and Duffy

I missed that Trevor Williams was DFAd and has enough time he’ll be a FA. Seemed like an awful fit last year, but I wonder if Sox sniff him out as a milb contract if the rumored interest last year was real. There has also been some smoke that pirates may put brault on the trade block. Not a huge fan but maybe a plan E or F.

Welcome to Soxtalk!

I don't mind people using their own value...would prefer they didn't disparage the use of objective data, such as MLB Trade Values, when it doesn't support their own values.

Again, not sure why so much hyperbole with Ozuna's defense lately. Also, virtually all contracts are an overpay these days. I'd rather overpay for a really solid OF than pay peanuts for a bad/mediocre one. That's the way this team has operated for years and it really needs to change.

I know that the Sox aren't going to bring their affiliates to the local area but I would love to see that happen. Same with the Cubs. Not only could Chicago baseball fans support their favorite teams' minor leaguers but the Sox-Cubs rivalry could be developed at the MiLB level, and I think it would be great for those teams from an attendance and revenue standpoint. Similarly I think it would be ideal if that could occur everywhere where natural rivalries exist. It would be great if the Sox could also play the Brewers affiliates a lot just because there's a lot of interest there as well.

Springer, Brantley, Ozuna for starters. Sorry you're not keen on an idea most of this board is behind. We're past the "cheating" part of this and I really don't want to have to go over the obvious reasons you should be overlooking that AGAIN because it's been done to death but either way for you to act like there aren't any options is ignorant. There are some really prime RF options available this offseason. Joc would be a mere consolation prize.

In case anyone is interested, BA is keeping track of all the affiliations/changes here. They're updating as the announcements come out.

Didn't matter, because the Sox haven't done much with the draft during that period. The Cubs picked directly behind the Sox in 2015 and 2016, when the Sox were "trying" but sucking anyway. The Sox picked Rodon and Fulmer, the Cubs following took Schwarber and Happ. The changes in the scouting / drafting area have improved the last three years (Madrigal, Vaughn and Crochet), not sure the White Sox would have done better finishing any worse than they did, Not sure if they will regress once again with the scouting cuts Jerry implemented.

Seemed like a good dude. Played way too much on our team unfortunately. Stole too many at bats from Yermin. Enjoy retirement sir.

With Coop gone I wonder if the White Sox would be “progressive” enough to use him as the fifth starter but keep him to 50-60 pitches. Team him up with Foster every 5th day out of the fifth spot...sounds like a winning formula to me. I do not expect that to happen though.

I’ll be in the minority here but if this team is trying to win a World Series next year he should be in the bullpen. Start stretching him out there but he’s one of your best weapons, he should should be on the major league team.

He’ll be starting in AA and that’s what he should be doing. He needs innings. He’ll likely be up in September and playoffs out of bullpen though.

Can’t we sign him to a one day contract so he can retire with the White Sox?

Fake news: He retired in 2018.

https://theathletic.com/2209316/2020/11/19/white-sox-international-scouting/ Here's the whole article with Paddy

When people show you who they are, you should believe them. This is decades of this crap.

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