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I gotta say it's getting really annoying having to scroll past the dumb f*** argument of the day.

Apparently quoting your actual words is a ridiculous take, which at this point I will whole heartedly agree with. With post after post like this, I am not sure why you are even here TBH. This schtick contributes nothing, and you obviously aren't getting anything out of it unless you are just trolling us at this point.

If holding you to your words is a "horrible take" that is more of a problem with yourself than anyone else. Or at least that should be how you take it. This is a pattern of you throwing some ridiculous hot take out there, getting called on it, denying it, and then blaming someone else for taking you at your word. Maybe that flies other places, but this isn't reddit or twitter.

The same arguments get recycled every few days in this thread. I’m sure the insults will start up shortly.

Dean Kremer 3.6 career fWAR John Means 3.3 fWAR last four seasons combined Grayson Rodriguez 1.8 fWAR Tyler Wells 2.4 fWAR Total=11.1 fWAR Dylan Cease over just the last THREE years 12.6 fWAR HAHAHAHAHA

They've spent more time "searching" for a new PBP person than they have their last 5 managers and the current GM combined. Wonder what hoops they are making them jump through for it to take so long.

So no one has a better one, but he is not the best one? Come on man. You can't be serious with that.

no. But I also don't expect them to develop close to the majors guys either loll.

Why the f*** are we comparing Jordan Westburg to Nicky Lopez?

Poor @Squirmin' for Yermin spends an hour on that only to be gaslit.

Because you've stated at least twice now that Kremer is the best #4 starter in the league, I decided since I'm snowed in, to waste 1 hour of my life researching this for you and also me. Rays - Baz/Bradley (I think everyone would take the Rays). Blue Jays - Kikuchi (Had a .41 better FIP than Kremer) Yankees - Stroman (Yankees easy here, obviously). Red Sox - Houck (I'll give Kremer the win here, despite Houck having a better FIP). +1 Twins - I don't think they even have one yet. (Kremer obvious win here). +1 Tigers - Faedo (Kremer easy win here) +1 Guardians - Logan Allen (I'd take Allen here pretty easily) White Sox - Soroka (Obvious Kremer win here) +1 Royals - Lynch (Kremer easy win) +1 Astros - Urquidy (I would take Urquidy here given a better track record, but I'll call it a 'push') +.5 Rangers - Jon Gray/Mahle (Rangers win here pretty easily) Mariners - Woo/Miller (Easy Mariners win) Angels - Sandova (Kremer win here) +1 Athletics - Not even wasting my time. (Kremer win) +1 Braves - Sale (Braves win) Phillies - Suarez (Pretty easy Suarez win) Marlins - Garrett (Braxton garrett breakthrough last 2 years. win marlins) Mets - Quintana (This is an easy Quintana win given the track record) Nationals - Corbin (Easy Kremer win) +1 Brewers - Miley (This is a Miley win assuming health) Cubs - Shoto Imanga (I'll give this to Kremer since Imanga is a wild card, and I'm being nice). +1 Reds - Lively (Kremer win) +1 Pirates - Oviedo (Oviedo had a slightly better FIP, I'm going 'push' here) +.5 Cardinals - Gibson (former Oriole, easy win for Gibson) Dodgers - Not wasting my time (They have 10 better probably lol. Kremer loss) Diamonbacks - Pfaadt (Give me Pfaadt all day) Padres - Waldron (Kremer win) +1 Giants - Ray (Ray easy) Rockies - Hudson (Kremer easy) +1 So by the count of this, I personally have Kremer better than 13 other #4 (per depth charts currently). This ranks him #17, which is indeed close to #1, like you insinuated, if you remove the 7. I am mad you made me do this. But you made me.

Dean Kremer had a 4.51 FIP last year. Not sure if you knew that.

Thank god Orioles Hangout has moved on to Luzardo as their primary trade target. They’re debating the value of Santander in a trade for Luzardo lol. Good luck with that exercise fellas.

Guys, don’t let the Orioles fans fool you. They are nervous about the rotation, but don’t want to seem desperate. Definitely don’t point out that Fangraphs projects their starters to put the 25th most WAR in baseball next year as it is especially triggering for them.

I promise you if randos on a sports message board are thinking of this, this has been studied and understood for decades by all of the different people who have tried to revitalize this site since the 1960s. If it was completely unbuildable, or if it was so expensive/difficult that it wasn't economically feasible, no one would be talking about doing something there anymore.

- Baltimore fans right now

All I can think about right now is that the Orioles not getting a frontline starter is like the Sox avoiding genuine attempts to fill RF and 2B during the rebuild/brief playoff runs

If nobody will pay the asking price though, he's not worth the asking price

Again, I question whether you’ve actually watched playoff baseball Extremely weird and short-sighted behavior

Boooooooooo *inhales* -oooooooooo, Connor. Anyone but Connor. Guy is a wet blanket, so uninspiring as an announcer.

For the tenth time, spare parts will not net you Luzardo. No lies, just facts. That deal starts with Mayo or Basallo (yea, I already know you disagree which is why I’m laughing)

And here come the insults

The reality is a large portion of what we consider downtown Chicago is built on fill, much of it from the Chicago fire and various destruction of undesirable neighborhoods in the 19th century. It hasn't stopped massive skyscrapers from going up on these places along areas like LSD and Michigan Ave.

My god…Canfield with an absolute kill shot here! The entire Hangout is now in shambles!

Caulfield and I just had intense Mandela Effect

It would be nice if they could do another multi-year tear down but this is Jerry Reinsdorf. This is going to be more of a rushed retool, hoping to be competitive 2025.

I'm mostly impressed by how many posts Sports Guy has managed to rack up in a month (in only this thread?). And I thought I posted here too much....and I actually like this team! Put me out of my misery ASAP when I make 1000 posts in a month on an Orioles message board.

“But your ranking is your opinion… but saying they are currently better is just flat out wrong.” Example 4,378 of discounting others’ arguments as opinion but yours as fact.

They aren’t spare parts but it’s unlikely the Os can get Luzardo without Mayo or Basallo being in the deal…which is why he’s a bad target for the Os and why Cease, who has been the better and more durable pitcher in his career, is the better target.

I absolutely love that a predictive stat is not relevant to predicting which 4th starters will be better next year and the most important thing to look at is whether they were a qualified pitcher last year.

Pretty wild that Rivers not winning the casino bid might end up being the greatest thing that ever happened to this ballclub. When I saw the news yesterday I was skeptical of this being realistic, but the more I read the more it makes sense. Related needs a huge draw to their entertainment district, and nothing makes more sense than putting a ballpark in the middle of it. And they might even pay for most of it!

I agree with Sports Guy. That list didn't account for all the teams with #4 starters better than him but #1 and #2 starters worse than him.

But plenty of teams do have better #4 starters than Kremer. And I have no idea how you could honestly believe otherwise and say so with such conviction.

It is being talked about now because the White Sox's lease at the Rate is officially up in a few years, so decisions will need to be made soon, there is actual time pressure to make a decision in the next couple years. Their options include extending the lease at the Rate, a new ballpark somewhere, or moving. These decisions don't need to be made today, but lining up hundreds of millions of dollars in funding takes time, so they need to be made soon. Any of these have some controversy to them - an extension of the lease at the Rate is complicated since the last deal was SO TEAM FRIENDLY that the politicians won't just want to renew it forever. A new ballpark is complicated since the last deal was SO TEAM FRIENDLY that the politicians won't just want to write Reinsdorf another blank check to stay in the same spot after his wealth increased by billions during the previous deal. Moving the team is obviously controversial. This particular spot has the benefits of potentially solving several of these issues. It makes sense for the city and state to put in some funds to this site since it is currently a dead zone that has had multiple development proposals fail and requires some environmental remediation. The transit options are ideal. It's much closer to downtown and could have the actual city viewable from the ballpark. It's a broad piece of land so the ballpark could serve as an anchor to a larger development - so the city and state could get tax revenue from the rest of the site once it is developed, justifying the funds they would put in to bring it back into the taxpaying base.

It honestly feels like Rick Hahn is the GM of the Astros now lol

I’m not even going to bother to look at that site but I truly hope their fans aren’t this clueless. A 29 year old Santander making $11.7 million in 2024 is about the last player the Marlins would want included in the return for Luzardo, or any of their players.

They will be fine as long as they lead the majors in hitting with RISP. I’m willing to bet they won’t be nearly 30 pct better than the Yankees this year in that situation.

When new Comiskey opened in 1991 for the first three years before the labor impasse they drew extremely well but then as the column stated the "newness factor" wore off. Without putting a winning program on the field the exact same thing will happen when or if this new proposed stadium is ever built.

Dodgers have eight to ten lol. https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-mlb-pitching-rotations-2023 White Sox now have 2/6th’s of one of the best rotations in baseball entering last year, the Atlanta Braves, lol.

White Sox need more Billy Joel concerts apparently. And Avisail was always called Baby Miggy lol.

Trading a prospect as part of a package where you're trading your #1-2 level ace would be so next level stupid that Getz would need to actually be fired on the spot. I don't care if it's an org top 5 prospect like Ramos or someone that has cratered off the cliff like Cespedes. Fortunately, despite me loathing basically every non-Fedde signing, I have confidence in Getz to not do that.

I think they are tapped financially. It’s pretty obvious the budget Getz has to work with is non-existent. If you move Cease, that would give them $8-9M to work with, and then I thing you’re right - we might see a guy like Grichuk brought in.

Well that doesn't seem to be the case this time. I'm told it's an unaccurate report and it came from the O's side.

I heard Josh Donaldson. They're going to name the baby Jackie.

Why, if they already have a gig, would anyone want to be the White Sox PBP person? They chased off Benetti. The team is awful. TV ratings suck. You will work with an analyst with a huge ego. What, unless you are a White Sox fanatic, is there for you? This will ultimately be a very disappointed hire.

If they actually care about character, this would be a hard no. We shall see. I know pumping up this shitty franchise is his job, but Chuck’s credibility is really stretching thin this winter.

Sorry Jimmy but I think trading for guys like Kjerstad and Westburg as the main return is extremely weird and short sighted behavior. Is this team ready to contend this year or next year? If not, then it makes much more sense to acquire younger prospects that are mlb ready in late 2025 and beyond. Why are we wanting guys that turn 25 before this season starts and their service clock has already started given the current state of the Sox? Makes ZERO sense to me.

With all the 4A guys brought in so far, I'd bet that the starting RF is already here we just don't know it yet.