Leaderboard

Given this team has no hope of competing, it’s important to focus on other key priorities for the year. From my perspective, here are the top 10 goals for the 2024 season: Get a Fucking Haul for Cease - This one is straight forward, but the moment we decided to hold Dylan into the season was the moment we decided to go all-in on getting a godfather package. Any Cease trade needs two legit high-end prospects (plus other things) and one who can help really soon. Make it fucking hurt. Develop Fletcher into a Platoon OF - This team is lacking young positional pieces and that means turning Fletcher into a useful major league OF is a must. And being a solid 4th OF is not a good enough outcome…we need to see this kid lock down a strong-side platoon role in RF with plus defense and a 110+ wRC+ against RHP. Turn Kopech into a Legit #3 SP - I have 100% given up hope of Kopech ever turning into a TOR starter, but I still think he’s far too talented to flop around at the back of a rotation. It’s time for Bannister & Katz to unlock some of Micheal’s potential and turn him into a still somewhat erratic, but mostly productive mid rotation starter. Began Building up Crochet as SP - The key word here is “building”, because no way is this guy going to be ready to provide any meaningful innings this year. As such, send him to Charlotte for a few months and let him move at a more gradual pace. This also allows us to claw back a year of control and retain him through 2027. Fully Assess Fedde & Soroka - This one is a bit tricky, but we need to quickly assess what we have in these guys and determine whether they can be part of the future or not (assuming results are there). With Soroka in particular, if there is no path to an extension, he must be moved at the deadline. We have a bit more flexibility with Fedde, but have to carefully weight go-forward value vs. potential prospect return. Keep Yoan & Eloy Healthy - This one is simple, but we need these guys to show-out this year so we can possibly trade them for something of value and that requires them to be healthy. I’m somewhat optimistic that Yoan will suddenly find the will to fight through pain given he’s effectively in a contract year. Eloy is a wild card, but I do believe he can still be a dynamic hitter if healthy and return a legit prospect. Develop Some Future Bullpen Pieces - The Sox will almost certainly start the year with a bunch of veterans in the major league pen, but once guys like Leasure, Berroa, & Speas are ready they should be called up and given ample opportunity to prove themselves this year. Same applies to Horn if he doesn’t make the OD roster. Give 30+ Starts to Minor League SPs - The OD rotation appears packed with vets, but we need to be prepared to allocate starts to youth once ready. Flexin should be on the chopping block if one of Nastrini, Eder, or Cannon prove ready earlier in the year. But post July, we must commit a good chunk of starts to those kids or others who prove they are ready for a shot to help get some development out of the way. Make Vaughn Prove Himself - It’s officially put up or shut up time for Andrew and if he doesn’t take a massive leap this year then I’m afraid it will be time to move on. The glove and base-running will never be there, which means the kid needs to put up a 120+ wRC+ to be useful. Play him everyday and see which version shows up. Protect Luis Robert - I know it will be easy for Grifol to slot Robert into the lineup everyday, but the dude is the single most valuable asset in the organization and should be managed with some caution (especially in a lost season). Not suggesting we completely baby him, but give him an off-day every couple of weeks and rest him whenever banged up. Another healthy season will greatly enhance his value.

What are the odds that everyone breaks out? That no one gets hurt (including Soroka and Kopech), and that things go well for everyone? People were predicting that for the roster last year, that everyone would be excellent and break out, and that might have been enough to get them back into competing for a weak AL Central. That was with a stronger roster than this one, and we saw how it went.

Win the Central. If Moncada, Eloy, and Robert play up to their potential...we will be right there.

Vaughn gets way too much leeway. He's as much a face of the failed rebuild as any of the other guys, including Yoan, Eloy, TA, Giolito etc. You trot him out there for 150 games at 1st and see what happens. If he doesn't hit this year, he's another guy that will have to be replaced if we want to win. Can't carry a replacement level 1B that hits righty.

Personally I would love it to be the big ass guaranteed rate red arrow pointing down, and then next to it, the faces of Hahn, Kenny, JR, TLR, and Pedro. JR must be front and center though. Like how they usually put the superstars in the middle. Credit where credit is due.

I liked Gio as a person and as a pitcher. Loved that high change-up and his competitive demeanor. I join with all other White Sox fans in wishing Gio the best.

Everyone has said my goals so I add Pedro's goals: 1) Gotta go FASTs 2) Get on the train 3) 500 at-bats each for DeJong, Lopez and Maldonado. Moustakas gets playing time over Sosa, Ramos or Colas. Also possibly Garrett Crochet. 4) Only lose games by 4 runs, not 5 runs. 5) Trademark the phrase "the Sox are gri-falling apart." 6) Get the Sox to add "Pedro's Grifol's Grilled Durian Fruit Stand" to the concourse.

I disagree. As I said in my earlier post...if healthy the lineup looks good to me. As they say...that's why they play the games.

Damn. That's too bad. I always liked Gio and wished him well. I wonder how Rodon is doing in New York.

Pipeline noted he (Mogollon) had a max EV of 105 and Ben Badler wrote that he already had a knack for pulling balls hard and in the air. BA also said above average raw power and EVs for his age group. Hating on a short king for no reason other than that is silly.

Eaton and Avi Garcia both had really strong 6ish and 4+ fWAR seasons in RF but certainly not on a consistent basis...and Eaton also played a lot of CF as well. Dye was pretty much a statue due to his leg when he came to us, but certainly still an offensive presence. Earlier in his career had a very strong arm as well, but his habit of catching the ball flat footed or going backwards and/or trying to throw with all of his momentum going forward after an extended run-up didn't serve him well, either.

What I want is to keep all our good prospects down in AAA for pretty much the entire year. Keep them together in Charlotte and let them build confidence and enjoy being on a winning team. Keep them all down there: Montgomery, Quero, Ramos; those young arms, keep them down there, starting with Crochet, and add to it Nastrini, Cannon, and Eder. Let them all build innings and build some confidence also. I would be fine with bring a bunch up in September to get their feet wet, but try to keep them in AAA and have a really outstanding year and team in Charlotte. I think we should try to muddle through this year with our inexpensive veterans and try to get lucky and win 70 games. Knowing that we have all that talent down in Charlotte will make this year a lot, a lot easier to take.

The entire top 30 is publishing now fwiw

The Optimistic fWAR were my esitmates using current ZIPS, looking at recent success, putting a plausible substantial improvement for a few players over ZIPS. Here are the actual 80% fWAR projects, many of which exceed my optimistic estimates. And to reiterate, I don't believe a team is going to have most players outperform their projections, but there is a good case for several players if healthy to exceed current expectations. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-zips-projections-chicago-white-sox/ 80% fWAR Projections vs. My Optimistic Projections 80% fWAR = 47.3 vs. 39.7 SSHM Optimistic Projections 24.9 Starting Lineup 19.0 1.8 C Max Stassi (33) (2.9 in 2021) 1.5 2.8 1B Andrew Vaughn (26) (0.3 in 2023) 1.5 1.8 2B Nicky Lopez (29) (6.0 in 2021) 2.0 3.0 3B Yoan Moncada (29) (4.0 in 2021) 3.5 2.3 SS Paul DeJong (30) (1.3 in 2021) 1.3 2.6 LF Andrew Benintendi (29) (2.8 in 2022) 2.0 5.2 CF Luis Robert Junior (26) (5.0 in 2023) 4.0 2.7 RF Dominic Fletcher (26) (0.6 in 2023) 1.5 2.7 DH Eloy Jimenez (27) (1.7 in 2022) 1.7 6.1 Bench 3.0 1.1 C Korey Lee (25) (-0.3 in 2022) 0.5 1.2 1B/OF Oscar Colas (25) (-1.3 in 2023) 0.5 1.7 INF Lenyn Sosa (24) (-0.3 in 2022) 1.0 2.1 INF/OF Danny Mendick (30) (0.8 in 2022) 1.0 11.1 Starting Pitching 12.0 4.1 SP1 Dylan Cease (28) (4.5 in 2021) 4.0 2.1 SP2 Erick Fedde (31) (1.2 in 2021) 2.0 1.7 SP3 Michael Kopech (28) (1.7 in 2021) 2.0 1.7 SP4 Michael Soroka (26) (-0.4 in 2023) 2.0 1.5 SP5 Chris Flexen (29) (3.0 in 2021) 2.0 5.2 Relief Pitching 5.7 0.8 CL John Brebbia (34) (0.9 in 2022) 1.0 0.6 SU Jordan Leasure (25) (Rookie) 0.5 0.0 SU Tim Hill (34) (0.5 in 2022) 0.5 -- MI Prelander Berroa (24) (Rookie) 0.5 0.5 MI Deivi Garcia (25) (0.1 in 2021) 0.5 1.4 MI Shane Drohan (25) (Rookie) 0.7 0.9 Swing Touki Toussaint (28) (0.4 in 2021) 0.5 1.0 Swing Garrett Crochet (25) (1.4 in 2021) 1.5 A net 30.0 optimistic fWAR (vs. my 39.7) is likely a more realistic overall net ceiling in terms of outperformers vs. underperformers, plus poor roster decisions and overreliance on veterans like Moose, Maldonado and others who shouldn't be considered for this team, but there is still a somewhat reasonable chance at a substantial year over year improvement if a lot of things go right.

Maldonado is a "black hole" that has played a big part on winning teams. This lineup is better than last year's opening day lineup that was picked by most pros to win the Central.

Bummer. At least he got paid first and it’s the red sux who are stuck with him.

Mike Soroka hasn't started more than 6 games in a season since 2019 and has made 9 starts total since that 2019 season. If he shows a glimpse of anything he should be traded as quickly as possible.

In reality, taking a playoff aspirations club and winning 61 games should have gotten you fired. Coming back the next season and winning 55 games should without a doubt get you fired. Even winning 68 games, should get you fired. In White Sox land, where there is no accountability and the leash is miles long, you are probably right. He will most likely be here next season as well, if nothing more than JR saving himself from paying two managers at once.

As Joe Madden used to say, "Try not to suck." Don't lose 100 games. Develop some players at all levels. Avoid injuries and hope to trade your best players for good prospects at the deadline. Fire Pedro Grifol by Memorial Day.

This year is very much about what happens at the levels below Chicago this year.

Maybe a classic White Sox player or players would be cool. Like Frank Thomas, Minnie Minoso and Mark Buehrle or somesuch.

There is only one correct answer to this question.

I didn't state anything about loyalty or your right to rip the team. I Just don't understand how one can generally find little if anything pleasurable about White Sox baseball including contemporary White Sox players, yet spend so much personal discretionary time following the team.

Lip is usually a dark cloud, but look at what we were promised, and look at what we got. At present, his dismay is more than justified. im skeptical of anything anyone says on the positive side of things. Pillar thinking this team could make the playoffs.’ Where’s Jim Mora when you need him?

The top 30 list is coming out this week. Here are the players who just missed our list: https://www.futuresox.net/2024/03/04/futuresox-white-sox-24-ps-just-missed/

There are many posters here with a much longer experience with these various sites, but I'll have to check out Sox on 35th. I never really followed prospects closely, but this is the first season I plan to dive in. I was too busy with life and work during prior rebuilds including the 2017-2019, though I went to a bunch of games in 2019 and really liked watching their younger players. Baseball Prospectus and The Athletic were the two prior sites I paid for access, the former for Rotisserie Leagues I no longer play, the later for James Fegan's Sox coverage until they cut staff last year and I dropped it.

I think the market inefficiency on relievers is always going to be what it has been - finding starters who have stuff but who hit limits in the upper minors or big leagues and converting them to relievers.

Sox on 35th did a top 30 with "just missed". Do you guys give them much credibility? South Side Sox does that top 100 thing, but last year, they petered out in the high 30's, and I don't think they even posted the rest.

You could have literally included John Q Fakename in your list of reasons why you’re aren’t concerned about the bullpen and I’d totally have believed he was a real person.

These two paragraphs couldn't be more contradictory. I was hoping you had something like exit velocities or some video work you were doing to back up those absoluteist statements. It really takes away from what you are saying when your methodology is so simplistic, yet all knowing.

I don’t care one bit about any of this. Promote guys and call them up when they deserve it. We just spent 10 years with a GM who would find any reason possible to bring people up or leave them down other than how they were actually performing. If a guy earns a call up, call them up. Nastrini and Eder are guys we’d like to see make progress and earn a call up, but if they struggle or get hurt, don’t call them up just to save the bullpen or to meet some artificial deadline. Montgomery was injured last year and struggled in his AA stint. If he doesn’t tear up the minors, take your time, he doesn’t have to come up. Ramos outperformed Monty last year, if he does that again bring him up to AAA and then see if he earns a call up. Quero is probably two years away if we’re being honest, take our time with him. Actually make these as baseball decisions. It’s the one thing Hahn basically never did.

Yasmani Grandal made the playoffs 7 years in a row, we should have signed him.

Awesome, I'll catch up on my reading today and tomorrow! Here is the comparison with Future Sox' Top 30 vs. the MLB rankings by Jim Callis. There are three Future Sox ranked not within the MLB Top 30 rankings. futuresox.net (James Fox author): https://www.futuresox.net/2024/03/05/futuresox-2024-preseas-wsox-t30-list/ MLB.com (Jim Callis author): https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/chicago-white-sox-top-30-prospects-list-2024-preseason?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage FutureSox Rankings: Bold = New FutureSox Ranked Prospect; Green Ranking Improvement vs. 2023; Red Rank Decline vs. 2023 MLB Notes (Rank, Level, ETA, Age) FutureSox Top 30 Same SS Colson Montgomery (2021 Draft R1) vs. #1 AA 2024 22 Same LHP Noah Schultz (2022 Draft R1) vs. #2 A 2026 20 +1 3B Bryan Ramos (2018 Cuban Signing) vs. #3 MLB 2024 21 -1 C Edgar Quero (2023 Trade Los Angeles Angels) vs. #4 AA 2025 20 +3 RHP Nick Nastrini (2023 Trade Los Angeles N. L.) vs. #6 AAA 2024 24 Same LHP Jake Eder (2023 Trade Miami) vs. #7 MLB 2025 25 -2 SS Jacob Gonzalez (2023 Draft R1) vs. #5 A 2026 21 +2 RHP Peyton Pallette (2022 Draft R2) vs. #9 AA 2026 22 +2 RHP Jonathan Cannon (2022 Draft R3) vs. #8 AA 2025 23 +2 RHP Grant Taylor (2023 Draft R2) vs. #10 ROK 2027 21 New OF Dominic Fletcher (2024 Trade Arizona) vs. #13 MLB 2024 26 +7 OF George Wolkow (2023 Draft R7) vs. #11 A 2027 18 -4 SS Jose Rodriguez (2018 Dominican Signing) vs. #14 MLB 2024 22 +8 RHP Tanner McDougal (2021 Draft R5) vs. #18 A 2026 20 Same RHP Seth Keener (2023 Draft R3) vs. #12 A 2026 22 -3 LHP Ky Bush (2023 Trade Los Angeles A. L.) vs. #17 AA 2025 24 -1 OF Jacob Burke (2023 Draft R11) vs. #30 A+ 2025 23 +2 OF Wilfred Veras (2019 Dominican Signing) vs. #25 AA 2025 21 +4 RHP Jordan Leasure (2023 Trade Los Angeles N. L.) vs. #15 AAA 2024 25 New OF Zach DeLoach (2024 Trade Seattle) vs. #29 MLB 2024 25 +3 SS Ryan Burrowes (2022 Panamanian Signing) vs. #21 A 2027 19 -8 OF Terrell Tatum (2021 Draft R16) vs. Not Ranked New RHP Prelander Berroa (2024 Trade Seattle) vs. #16 MLB 2024 23 New 2B Javier Mogollon (2023 Venezuelan Signing) vs. #22 ROK 2028 18 -7 RHP Sean Burke (2021 Draft R3) vs. #20 AAA 2025 24 New 3B Eduardo Herrera (2024 Venezuelan Signing) vs. #23 ROK 2029 17 -1 RHP Juan Carela (2023 Trade New York A. L.) vs. #26 A+ 2025 22 +2 RHP Mason Adams (2022 Draft R12) vs. #19 AA 2025 24 New RHP Mathias LaCombe (2023 Draft R12) vs. Not Ranked New RHP Aldrin Batista (2023 Trade Los Angeles N. L.) vs. Not Ranked Just missed within FutureSox Top 30 INF Brooks Baldwin (2022 Draft R12) #24 A+ 2025 23 LHP Shane Drohan (2023 Rule 5 Draft Boston) #27 MLB 2024 25 RHP Alex Speas (2023 Waiver Claim Texas) #28 MLB 2024 26

Certainly doesn't help his case with the fact that his predecessors were Jose Abreu, Paul Konerko, and Frank Thomas for basically 3 consecutive decades. All southside legends and one 1st ballot hof'er.

Hahn's teams and bullpens were never well-constructed. And that list of guys I gave aren't complete f*ckups who are good for 8 runs every time they trot out of the bullpen. They're all competent major league arms or prospects.

I didn't suggest that. I said their pitching wouldn't be "bad". All I did was add up possible win totals, and came up with 75 wins. Are you suggesting you know that a couple weeks of the season will get wiped out and they'll only play 150 games? If the White Sox were truly pushing .500 in mid July, and they were in first place, I think they'd have to make any effort to win the division. That really means punting the trade of Cease to the off-season, if he wasn't gone already.

The Sox have several players with a much higher recent (2021-2023) fWAR seasons. Not all will hit or exceed these marks, but in a 80% year many can exceed their current ZIPS projections and get the team close to that 40 fWAR mark. Not likely, but could get close if several players go better than expected. If they are smart and play a younger bench to get them experience (2B/SS/RF rotates 4-5 games a week). Can also gain experience for solid role players, perhaps an unexpected starter for the next few years. 2024 ZIPS fWAR / Position Player (2024 Age) (Highest fWAR 2021-2023) - Optimistic 2024 fWAR 15.5 Starting Lineup 19.0 1.4 C Max Stassi (33) (2.9 in 2021) 1.5 1.5 1B Andrew Vaughn (26) (0.3 in 2023) 1.5 1.1 2B Nicky Lopez (29) (6.0 in 2021) 2.0 2.0 3B Yoan Moncada (29) (4.0 in 2021) 3.5 1.3 SS Paul DeJong (30) (1.3 in 2021) 1.3 1.6 LF Andrew Benintendi (29) (2.8 in 2022) 2.0 3.9 CF Luis Robert Junior (26) (5.0 in 2023) 4.0 1.0 RF Dominic Fletcher (26) (0.6 in 2023) 1.5 1.7 DH Eloy Jimenez (27) (1.7 in 2022) 1.7 2.5 Bench 3.0 0.3 C Korey Lee (25) (-0.3 in 2022) 0.5 0.2 1B/OF Oscar Colas (25) (-1.3 in 2023) 0.5 0.7 INF Lenyn Sosa (24) (-0.3 in 2022) 1.0 1.3 INF/OF Danny Mendick (30) (0.8 in 2022) 1.0 8.9 Starting Pitching 12.0 3.4 SP1 Dylan Cease (28) (4.5 in 2021) 4.0 1.4 SP2 Erick Fedde (31) (1.2 in 2021) 2.0 0.8 SP3 Michael Kopech (28) (1.7 in 2021) 2.0 1.0 SP4 Michael Soroka (26) (-0.4 in 2023) 2.0 1.3 SP5 Chris Flexen (29) (3.0 in 2021) 2.0 1.8 Relief Pitching 5.7 0.4 CL John Brebbia (34) (0.9 in 2022) 1.0 0.1 SU Jordan Leasure (25) (Rookie) 0.5 -0.3 SU Tim Hill (34) (0.5 in 2022) 0.5 0.3 MI Prelander Berroa (24) (Rookie) 0.5 0.0 MI Deivi Garcia (25) (0.1 in 2021) 0.5 0.7 MI Shane Drohan (25) (Rookie) 0.7 0.2 Swing Touki Toussaint (28) (0.4 in 2021) 0.5 0.4 Swing Garrett Crochet (25) (1.4 in 2021) 1.5 28.7 Totals 39.7

Depends on your view of manufacturing. If you want to REALLY get into it, you'd say that at that point you should sell off your expensive, MLB-level assets and replace them with freshly-minted MiLB graduates from your "factory." Like what chitownsportsfan said, there's a lot of wisdom required in baseball in addition to pure athleticism. Not that other sports don't have the cerebral component, but these cerebral battles in baseball happen on such a controlled level that it's hard to get by on talent alone... that, and because it's so controlled, every little weakness is exploited. The closest analogy I can think of in professional sports off the top of my head is an NHL goalie... and that's even a stretch. There's a really good reason that NHL goalies peak later compared to their position-player peers. They have to be mechanically damn near perfect, and none of the gazillion split-second decisions they make every game can show even a glimpse of those weaknesses. Drop your blocker hand a couple of extra inches when going down in the butterfly while moving toward your blocker side? Good luck eliminating that habit through every possible position shift. If it pops up in a game, NHL shooters pick up on that stuff and exploit your upper blocker corner and five-hole at will, the same way young MLB hitters and pitchers get exposed. Make a guy go into a "sink or swim" situation too quickly, and he might figure out a way to swim, but he'll probably develop other bad habits / holes along the way in his game that'll just then get exploited later. By then, you're a physically more mature player, and those habits are just harder to break... and the next thing you know you end up as a filler for Steve Stone in the booth for a (should-be) last-place team by the time you're in your mid-30's.

Will post a comparison after Future Sox posts their Top 15 later this week. Signed up for Patreon for both Future Sox and Sox Machine after creating an account this week. Have enjoyed the full analysis for each of the players and other content. Signed up for Sox Machine primarily to get James Fegan's coverage.

Outside of a very limited handful of starting pitchers, Jerry is 100% right on this one. ML starting pitchers are becoming like NFL running backs. Use them heavily for 4-6 years and then discard.

I think it's pitch recognition and zone control against MLB pitching that has a scouting report on you and will attack every weakness without mercy. You just don't get that in college ball or even really in the high minors. It's a unique sport with the batter and pitcher battle. Defensively there's probably a bunch of guys that could play at 18, but there's no way they can control the zone well enough to hit much more than 200/220/300.

The White Sox need a manager who can optimize guys by putting them in positions to succeed, and someone who can develop players. Grifol refuses to use players to the best of their abilities, and he is on the record as saying that he has no interest in development. He has to go. If there’s anything he succeeds at it, it’s his ability to fellate his bosses and kiss their asses.

I think Pedro has to be better than last year, not just by wins, or he's going to be the scapegoat for a team that refuses to say they are rebuilding. He's talking like they are headed to World Series. 90 loses and they can't bring him back, especially considering most of the roster is one and done.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/whitesox/ MLB Pipeline Top 30 Sox prospects

And they have no place to build in Chicago. They will go to Arlington Heights. It the grand scheme of things, the difference is $17 million a year, which normally is a lot, but not enough to kill the project.

I don't care how bad they are, I am ready to watch the Sox every day and curse the off days because its boring without it.

These are all sound points. Let's hope the boobs in charge have the same priorities, and Pedro's incompetence doesn't get in the way.

I will remain optimistic until they start losing. I always try to maintain a positive outlook unlike others on this site. Its a new season I try to hope for the best. I really think this starting pitching could be good.