What is rock bottom for this FO? What what would need to happen for a shakeup at the top?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

7 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Why can't JR just transfer ownership to his son. I know there's a whole board making decisions about this kind of s%*# but doesn't he have a controlling stake? Ive heard repeatedly that JR makes all the decisions.

Does his son not wanna deal with this? I thought people were saying that his son was gonna be controlling the team after JR is gone 

Personally I don’t want his son in charge either. The Bulls are a dumpster fire.

[RibbieRubarb]

11 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'm almost long for the days when you have a guy like Mariotti that would just rip the s%*# out of the club on the Sun Times and it would mean a significant thing publicly. There's no strong voice that will reach JR now from the media. 

Don't...just don't put that name in the universe,

[Highland]

They have hit rock bottom or close to it, but I doubt they realize it. It is called being extremely stubborn and in deep denial.

The FO staked its reputation on the rebuild and on not doing a whole lot during the last offseason. We are seeing the results. It is difficult to make changes now. but they should do something. Right now, there is no reason to be optimistic about the short and long term future of this team. I don't know how anyone in this organization would want to go to work on any day.

[RibbieRubarb]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

First move is to bring in AJ Pierzynski as manager, hiring a guy from a losing organization like the Royals was a huge mistake.

 

 

 

What does a manager have to do with payroll, minor league development, drafting and roster construction?

 

[joejoesox]

yeah a new manager isn't gonna fix the deep rooted problems, it might make the fans less rabid because it would appear like they were trying to fix s%*# but as I've said already in another thread, they've had 5+ managers in the last 12 years.  that's something that really really inept front offices do to save their own jobs

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, Highland said:

They have hit rock bottom or close to it, but I doubt they realize it. It is called being extremely stubborn and in deep denial.

The FO staked its reputation on the rebuild and on not doing a whole lot during the last offseason. We are seeing the results. It is difficult to make changes now. but they should do something. Right now, there is no reason to be optimistic about the short and long term future of this team. I don't know how anyone in this organization would want to go to work on any day.

While KW talked accountablity, he still mentioned they had to make up 6 games in 5 1/2 months. It's really 5 months and 7 games now, but what they don't realize is good teams don't start like this. If they win today, it's happened once, and that team was a wild card. Hard to believe a WC is coming out of the ALC. If they lose today, no playoff team has ever started 7-18. They are done. Make changes now. 

[LittleHurtCG]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

While KW talked accountablity, he still mentioned they had to make up 6 games in 5 1/2 months. It's really 5 months and 7 games now, but what they don't realize is good teams don't start like this. If they win today, it's happened once, and that team was a wild card. Hard to believe a WC is coming out of the ALC. If they lose today, no playoff team has ever started 7-18. They are done. Make changes now. 

Thanks for pulling these stats. The Sox are playing out the old saying "you can't win a division in April but you can certainly lose one" in real time. In a just world these clowns would be relegated on May1 and the Rosemont Hot Dogs ballclub would be brought up to take their place. 

[Dick Allen]

Just now, LittleHurtCG said:

Thanks for pulling these stats. The Sox are playing out the old saying "you can't win a division in April but you can certainly lose one" in real time. In a just world these clowns would be relegated on May1 and the Rosemont Hot Dogs ballclub would be brought up to take their place. 

And it's not like they are just a great team with just an extended bad streak. They are below average for well over 250 games.

[The Kids Can Play]

12 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

<5K at the park all summer will have more impact than the record.  They will blame us either way.  They will always find a way to reach a new bottom. 

I think this is the key! I never root against the Sox, but for once I hope the fans really stop going and never even touch 5k. I also hope the losses keep piling up. We all know Jerry flaws as an owner. One of them is his big ego. I think as long as he isn't in dementia yet and has some non senile cognitive skills left, I think watching 5k a game or less would embarrass him...knowing he is embarrassing himself to the other league owners. 

If after potentially having one of worst records in baseball and maybe the worst attendance it still doesn't bother Jerry to make any changes, then the other Sox owners need to get together and bring this POS loser owner to court and claim he is mentally incapable to continue being the owner of the Sox and force him to sell the team.  

[zisk]

Does JR know a fellow owner or any one else not named  TLR, whose opinion he trusts?

If he doesn't, then we're stuck with what we've got. He could get rid of KW and RH, but the

only person left would be Getz. Would that be an improvement? No one really knows. I

suppose he couldn't do worse.

[MiddleCoastBias]

I think the front office is holding out hope that it's "just a difficult schedule through April" and "we'll get better when we're healthy in May". 

DVS points out that we faced the toughest schedule in April and will face the easiest in May. Maybe the April teams' winning % are so high because they've played us and the May teams' winning % are low because they haven't played us yet 🤔

https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/1650948295634612231?s=20

Continue your rate through a weak May schedule and we might actually see some shakeups, but not until then.

[Dick Allen]

38 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

I think the front office is holding out hope that it's "just a difficult schedule through April" and "we'll get better when we're healthy in May". 

DVS points out that we faced the toughest schedule in April and will face the easiest in May. Maybe the April teams' winning % are so high because they've played us and the May teams' winning % are low because they haven't played us yet 🤔

https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/1650948295634612231?s=20

Continue your rate through a weak May schedule and we might actually see some shakeups, but not until then.

They used the toughest and easiest schedule bit last year.

[The Kids Can Play]

[Tnetennba]

46 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

I think the front office is holding out hope that it's "just a difficult schedule through April" and "we'll get better when we're healthy in May". 

DVS points out that we faced the toughest schedule in April and will face the easiest in May. Maybe the April teams' winning % are so high because they've played us and the May teams' winning % are low because they haven't played us yet 🤔

https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/1650948295634612231?s=20

Continue your rate through a weak May schedule and we might actually see some shakeups, but not until then.

Sorry DVS, but the Sox *are* the easy part of the schedule for other teams at this point.  Not sure they can bank on facing "easier" teams to make much of a difference.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, joejoesox said:

Why can't JR just transfer ownership to his son. I know there's a whole board making decisions about this kind of s%*# but doesn't he have a controlling stake? Ive heard repeatedly that JR makes all the decisions.

Does his son not wanna deal with this? I thought people were saying that his son was gonna be controlling the team after JR is gone 

The board of directors has NO say in the running of the franchise. NONE. It is written in JR's contract that he has final say on everything including a potential sale.

In the rare times he has spoken on it JR has said he does NOT want his family keeping the franchise when he is gone, so the idea of transferring the team to his son wouldn't agree with his stated plan. JR has said when he is gone to "sell the Sox, keep the Bulls." 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I think this is the key! I never root against the Sox, but for once I hope the fans really stop going and never even touch 5k. I also hope the losses keep piling up. We all know Jerry flaws as an owner. One of them is his big ego. I think as long as he isn't in dementia yet and has some non senile cognitive skills left, I think watching 5k a game or less would embarrass him...knowing he is embarrassing himself to the other league owners. 

If after potentially having one of worst records in baseball and maybe the worst attendance it still doesn't bother Jerry to make any changes, then the other Sox owners need to get together and bring this POS loser owner to court and claim he is mentally incapable to continue being the owner of the Sox and force him to sell the team.  

Why would they do this when they are making money? And given they are all around JR's age you trhink they'd have the stomach for a court battle?

[Snopek]

27 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Sorry DVS, but the Sox *are* the easy part of the schedule for other teams at this point.  Not sure they can bank on facing "easier" teams to make much of a difference.

At the same time, it would be very White Sox of them to pull within a couple games of .500 and stay there the rest of the year, settling into the familiar mediocrity rather then the attention-grabbing bad that should be the preference at this point.

[Dam8610]

To answer the question posed in the thread title, a sale of the team.

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Why would they do this when they are making money? And given they are all around JR's age you trhink they'd have the stomach for a court battle?

I was half kidding. I know they wouldn't do it, but they should. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[superchops70]

We absolutely have to lead the league in opponent lead off batter OBP

[PolishPrince34]

I'm officially done spending any money on the White Sox. Not attending any games or buying any merchandise until they absolutely clean house. If they don't clean house (Williams, Hahn, Getz, Boyer, etc.) not receiving another penny. 3rd rate organization and really sad what Reinsdorf has done to Chicago sports!

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I think this is the key! I never root against the Sox, but for once I hope the fans really stop going and never even touch 5k. I also hope the losses keep piling up. We all know Jerry flaws as an owner. One of them is his big ego. I think as long as he isn't in dementia yet and has some non senile cognitive skills left, I think watching 5k a game or less would embarrass him...knowing he is embarrassing himself to the other league owners. 

If after potentially having one of worst records in baseball and maybe the worst attendance it still doesn't bother Jerry to make any changes, then the other Sox owners need to get together and bring this POS loser owner to court and claim he is mentally incapable to continue being the owner of the Sox and force him to sell the team.  

You're not going to get 5K sold this year, because the season ticket base made up of die-hards and a substantial number of sponsor held tickets is higher.

Looks like 13,794 is close to the weekend season ticket base based on their 4/16 attendance with likely no walkup crowd (cold, rainy and miserable).

Their 5/4 day game against Minnesota will show their likely weekday season ticket base, I'd guess around 11,000, unless there is a very nice weather day that brings some walk up interest.

They are going to continue to try to sell tickets with $4.15 tax day sales throughout the season. Stubhub lists tickets to enter at $4-$6 for a majority of the schedule, so beyond already sold season ticket and group sales, it's going to be hard to push the needle beyond incredible weather days or a miraculous turnaround. Despite the start, I believe the Sox will end up in the 64-69 win range this season even with the expected July sell off.

[The Kids Can Play]

15 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You're not going to get 5K sold this year, because the season ticket base made up of die-hards and a substantial number of sponsor held tickets is higher.

Looks like 13,794 is close to the weekend season ticket base based on their 4/16 attendance with likely no walkup crowd (cold, rainy and miserable).

Their 5/4 day game against Minnesota will show their likely weekday season ticket base, I'd guess around 11,000, unless there is a very nice weather day that brings some walk up interest.

They are going to continue to try to sell tickets with $4.15 tax day sales throughout the season. Stubhub lists tickets to enter at $4-$6 for a majority of the schedule, so beyond already sold season ticket and group sales, it's going to be hard to push the needle beyond incredible weather days or a miraculous turnaround. Despite the start, I believe the Sox will end up in the 64-69 win range this season even with the expected July sell off.

You are probably right as it was more wishful thinking. However it is a sad commentary on Sox fans to be so loyal and not willing to send a stronger message to this loser owner, who could give a crap whether his loyal fans are frustrated and totally upset. 

As far as the projection on wins, I don't see them getting more than 62-65 range. In fact, if they do a major sell off at the July trade deadline, then for sure they can approach over 100 loses. At least that's what I'm praying for...the worst possible ending for this  ShitShow the owner and FO gave their loyal die-hard Sox fans.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You are probably right as it was more wishful thinking. However it is a sad commentary on Sox fans to be so loyal and not willing to send a stronger message to this loser owner, who could give a crap whether his loyal fans are frustrated and totally upset. 

As far as the projection on wins, I don't see them getting more than 62-65 range. In fact, if they do a major sell off at the July trade deadline, then for sure they can approach over 100 loses. At least that's what I'm praying for...the worst possible ending for this  ShitShow the owner and FO gave their loyal die-hard Sox fans.

Yes. And even though the paid attendance will settle in at 11-13K plus, doesn't mean actual attendance will be even half that when the weather is bad, which does impact revenue in terms of parking and concessions.

I feel bad for everyday fans who bought season tickets hoping to at least break even on the secondary market for games they can't go to, but the $4-$6 daily floor will only lead to more cancellations this off-season which may finally force legitimate change at 35th and Shields.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, JoshPR said:

For Jerry to sell to a team of people who see potential in the franchise and such people pretty much clean the fricken house. Kenny, Hahn, Boyer, getz hostetler gone. Then have an organizational philosophy. What's the game plan. Invest in development and scouting. Get rid of the buddy buddy thing. 

Buddy Bell thing too...