Cease To Padres per Passan

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

From MLB.com:

With the White Sox looking to turn the page after a disappointing 61-101 season in 2023, the club is willing to listen to offers for everyone on its roster. That includes Dylan Cease, who finished second in the AL Cy Young Award voting in 2022.

Although it’s going to take a haul to acquire Cease, who has two years of team control remaining, MLB Network insider Jon Heyman still gives him a good chance of being dealt.

“I do think Cease is likely [to be traded] … I think he’s 80% [likely] to be moved, they're already talking about potential packages going back to the White Sox,” Heyman said Tuesday on MLB Network.

Cease was recently linked to the Dodgers, but Heyman hears the White Sox are engaging in trade talks with “many, many teams” about the right-hander.

It's not surprising that Cease is receiving widespread interest on the trade market considering the going rate for starters of his caliber in free agency. One such pitcher just came off the board when the Phillies re-signed Aaron Nola for $172 million over seven years. Cease is entering his second round of arbitration eligibility after earning $5.7 million in 2023.

 

Nightengale - 90%
Heyman - 80%
 

Choose your fighter

[baseball_gal_aly]

33 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

There's a $3M buyout in 2025 and a $3M buyout in 2026.  He gets $13.8M in 2024.  So the commitment for a team trading for him is a minimum of $16.8M.

Oh I thought his 2025 was guaranteed money. That's where I was confused. 

[SoxBlanco]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

It is not tongue in cheek, he is 35 years old. He has played 4 straight years of below average offense. His power has regressed to a near .100 iso. His krate has increased the last 3 years.

What it would look like if he starts becoming .05 slower to first, or if his bat speed slows down and his discipline falters, is he becomes an unplayable ball player because his hard hit rate is in the 2 percentile.

He got to 1.5 WAR by playing a lot. It is nice to prevent the other god awful players from playing, but if he regresses the way it would be extremely likely for a 35 year old player who doesn't walk and relies to on speed to do, it is a waste.

This is all accurate, and I don't really disagree with any of it, but does it really matter how good he is? I know that sounds ridiculous, but whether he's a 0 WAR player or a 3 WAR player really won't change outlook of the club. The Sox will not be good this year, so we might as well grab some players that play hard and play the game the right way so that any youngsters we bring up can learn and grow in a better environment. 

In other words, I'd rather sign a 0 WAR 2B that plays the game like Merrifield than a 3 WAR 2B that plays the game like Moncada. If we were trying to compete this year, then that's a different story.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Honestly, I'm not sold on trying to fix 2B and RF with guys that immediately slot in as 25 or 26 year olds.

As much as I've hated the inevitable that we'll sign Merrifield, I'm viewing this next year as a wash. If he signs for a year as a bridge while we get some other younger guys in and give them more time to develop, that might have more value in the long run, even if 2024 is putrid.

There is this dilemma that I hope Getz has asked JR about when it comes to spending the money on old downward trending veterans.

He has a certain amount he can spend and can allocate all of it or as little as he sees fit.

The question or dilemma I have as a fan is , If the budget is $150M and I spend $140M what happens to the $10M I didn't spend ? Can it be added to next year's payroll and how will I know you added it to next year's payroll ? In that case, if I'm Getz ,I spend everything JR gives me to spend. It might not have to be spend only on players though. I might want to increase staff, hire better scouts etc. to be more in line with how the rest of baseball does it.

So the less you spend on guys like Merrifield the more you can put into infrastructure to support the intelligence of the FO finding  , drafting, and developing talent.

I just don't see the need to play anything but cheap young players or slightly more expensive non tenders looking for bounceback or breakout guys you can flip. Spending on guys like Merrifield accomplishes what exactly ?

There is so many better things to do with $10-40M than putting it into the players who are going to lose close to 100 games in 2024 no matter what. Right now everything should be focused on building a smarter, better infrastructure. I just don't know if that falls under Getz purview or if that's a different budget than player payroll.

Edited November 21, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Kyyle23]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There is this dilemma that I hope Getz has asked JR aboutwhen it comes to spending the money on old downward trending veterans.

He has a certain amount he can spend and can allocate all of it or as little as he sees fit.

The question or dilemma I have as a fan is , If the budget is $150M and I spend $140M what happens to the $10M I didn't spend ? Can it be added to next year's payroll and how will I know you added it to next year's payroll ? In that case if I'm Getz I spend everything JR gives me to spend. It might not have to be spend only on players though. I might want to increase staff higher better scouts etc. to be more inline with how the rest of baseball does it.

So the less you spend on guys like Merrifield the more you can put into infrastructure to support the intelligence of the FO finding  , drafting, and developing talent.

I just don't see the need to play anything but cheap young players or slightly more expensive non tenders looking for bounceback or breakout guys you can flip. Spending on guys like Merrifield accomplishes what exactly ?

We know it’s a dead end route, but the Chairman is still telling us how awesome David Eckstein was and it just kind of makes sense that they would make this move to make him think oh wow look at this (former) good hitter!

[joejoesox]

still think we get a haul for him, mightve been better to wait for the off-season 

[SoCalChiSox]

24 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There is this dilemma that I hope Getz has asked JR about when it comes to spending the money on old downward trending veterans.

He has a certain amount he can spend and can allocate all of it or as little as he sees fit.

The question or dilemma I have as a fan is , If the budget is $150M and I spend $140M what happens to the $10M I didn't spend ? Can it be added to next year's payroll and how will I know you added it to next year's payroll ? In that case, if I'm Getz ,I spend everything JR gives me to spend. It might not have to be spend only on players though. I might want to increase staff, hire better scouts etc. to be more in line with how the rest of baseball does it.

So the less you spend on guys like Merrifield the more you can put into infrastructure to support the intelligence of the FO finding  , drafting, and developing talent.

I just don't see the need to play anything but cheap young players or slightly more expensive non tenders looking for bounceback or breakout guys you can flip. Spending on guys like Merrifield accomplishes what exactly ?

There is so many better things to do with $10-40M than putting it into the players who are going to lose close to 100 games in 2024 no matter what. Right now everything should be focused on building a smarter, better infrastructure. I just don't know if that falls under Getz purview or if that's a different budget than player payroll.

I agree infrastructure is better investment but JR is gonna say thats not a one time deal its a continuing investment. So if you are going to forego signing a 8-10m scrub like Merrifield and put it into operations by hiring say 12 more data analysts, buying better analytic programs and maybe 10 more development staff, that's a continuing expense year to year. It's not a one time deal and to keep it up he will have to deduct from each year's budget which could vary wildly. 

IMO, it's still certainly worth it but it may not be as easy for Getz to do as a simple one time expense, especially if JR is going to hide behind the high payrolls the last few years with no reward and the need to get some profits to antsy partners.

Edited November 21, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[bmags]

26 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

This is all accurate, and I don't really disagree with any of it, but does it really matter how good he is? I know that sounds ridiculous, but whether he's a 0 WAR player or a 3 WAR player really won't change outlook of the club. The Sox will not be good this year, so we might as well grab some players that play hard and play the game the right way so that any youngsters we bring up can learn and grow in a better environment. 

In other words, I'd rather sign a 0 WAR 2B that plays the game like Merrifield than a 3 WAR 2B that plays the game like Moncada. If we were trying to compete this year, then that's a different story.

These are the things one says in the offseason before they remember that watching some wily old veteran slap a weak grounder to second base at bat after at bat isn't nearly as romantic as it seemed.

[Tnetennba]

Has there ever been a more depressing Sox infield than Glass Moncada, Naperville Nicky, Whit, and Vaughn? Woof. 

[SoCalChiSox]

Just now, Tnetennba said:

Has there ever been a more depressing Sox infield than Glass Moncada, Naperville Nicky, Whit, and Vaughn? Woof. 

We need more nicknames for the last two.

Bald Vaughn is one...what about Merrifield?

Limp Dick Beni also is good...at least until he can Crack 10 HRs. 

[bmags]

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

We need more nicknames for the last two.

Bald Vaughn is one...what about Merrifield?

Limp Dick Beni also is good...at least until he can Crack 10 HRs. 

Andrew Yawn

 

[SoCalChiSox]

Just now, bmags said:

Andrew Yawn

 

As John Madden would say..."Boom!"

[Tnetennba]

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

We need more nicknames for the last two.

Bald Vaughn is one...what about Merrifield?

Limp Dick Beni also is good...at least until he can Crack 10 HRs. 

BenNintendo is my favorite, personally. 

Suck Merrifield? Andrew Bust?

Yeah, I got nothing…

 

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Andrew Yawn

 

YAAASSS

[SoxBlanco]

12 minutes ago, bmags said:

These are the things one says in the offseason before they remember that watching some wily old veteran slap a weak grounder to second base at bat after at bat isn't nearly as romantic as it seemed.

Haha, I’ve already accepted the fact that we will be seeing a lot of garbage at-bats and pitching this year. I just want to see guys that care.

Even typing that out was depressing. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I agree infrastructure is better investment but JR is gonna say thats not a one time deal its a continuing investment. So if you are going to forego signing a 8-10m scrub like Merrifield and put it into operations by hiring say 12 more data analysts, buying better analytic programs and maybe 10 more development staff, that's a continuing expense year to year. It's not a one time deal and to keep it up he will have to deduct from each year's budget which could vary wildly. 

IMO, it's still certainly worth it but it may not be as easy for Getz to do as a simple one time expense.

I certainly realize what I proposed is an ongoing expense  but the question remains how much of an ongoing expense is it?

Let's say between salaries, scouts , travel expenses computer equipment etc involved in hiring 30 more staff members is somewhere around 50-100K per staff member if a certain amount of those hired is cheap labor of guys looking to use their degrees to break into baseball and some guys are higher priced scouts who you might poach from other organizations. I'll admit I have no idea what these people get paid or the cost of travel and purchase of high end stuff that teams like the Rays seem to have no problems investing in on a year to year basis so it can't be that prohibitive. So my guess is maybe you spend $3-5M a year .

 

[SoCalChiSox]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I certainly realize what I proposed is an ongoing expense  but the question remains how much of an ongoing expense is it?

Let's say between salaries, scouts , travel expenses computer equipment etc involved in hiring 30 more staff members is somewhere around 50-100K per staff member if a certain amount of those hired is cheap labor of guys looking to use their degrees to break into baseball and some guys are higher priced scouts who you might poach from other organizations. I'll admit I have no idea what these people get paid or the cost of travel and purchase of high end stuff that teams like the Rays seem to have no problems investing in on a year to year basis so it can't be that prohibitive. So my guess is maybe you spend $3-5M a year .

 

Yeah I think if it's 3-5m a year or even a little more that would be no problem even in a tight budget and certainly by framing the issue as "cheap labor" as you suggested this might be the magic words Getz needs to persuade JR. 

I think some of the premium eggheads with PH.Ds in math or stats will require well over 100k even if starting out, but still even at like 250k, in the big picture it's not that much esp if the payroll gets cut drastically as it seems it will. 

This is why it is imperative to get a trade done with LAD or BAL for Hjerstad/Cowser and Ortiz OR Pages and Busch. 

These are legit answers for 2B and RF that will be cheap rather than paying 10 million for crap like we do every fucking year.

If we could add these guys and with Montgomery and Ramos coming aboard soon I would actually be excited about our lineup.

Edited November 21, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Yeah I think if it's 3-5m a year or even a little more that would be no problem even in a tight budget and certainly by framing the issue as "cheap labor" as you suggested this might be the magic words Getz needs to persuade JR. 

I think some of the premium eggheads with PH.Ds in math or stats will require well over 100k even if starting out, but still even at like 250k, in the big picture it's not that much esp if the payroll gets cut drastically as it seems it will. 

This is why it is imperative to get a trade done with LAD or BAL for Hjerstad/Cowser and Ortiz OR Pages and Busch. 

These are legit answers for 2B and RF that will be cheap rather than paying 10 million for crap like we do every fucking year.

And besides cheap ownership the one main thing that makes the Sox a historically bad franchise is the terrible terrible fact that they have the worst accumulative left handed hitters in baseball starting from the existence of the franchise. I think I saw that in a tweet from the guy who always give us those wonderfully depressing things about the Sox. I can't remember his name.

[Quin]

Don't mention the Cubs in a White Sox article: difficulty impossible

[PolishPrince34]

https://www.soxon35th.com/10-potential-trade-packages-for-dylan-cease-this-offseason/

 

Good Read!!!

[pcq]

5 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

He’s always had contempt for the fans, but the TLR debacle amplified it exponentially. 

I don't care but Jerry hates the fans as much as they dislike him. 

[South Side Hit Men]

6 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Has there ever been a more depressing Sox infield than Glass Moncada, Naperville Nicky, Whit, and Vaughn? Woof. 

Moncada, DeJong, Lopez & Vaughn.

How about Moustakas, DeJong, Lopez & Sheets from left to right?

[pmb0928]

8 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Has there ever been a more depressing Sox infield than Glass Moncada, Naperville Nicky, Whit, and Vaughn? Woof. 

How about this one

Hanser Alberto

Lenyn Sosa

Romy Gonzales

Gavin Sheets

Lets throw in Seby to round out the infield.

[Tnetennba]

32 minutes ago, pmb0928 said:

How about this one

Hanser Alberto

Lenyn Sosa

Romy Gonzales

Gavin Sheets

Lets throw in Seby to round out the infield.

The difference being that your collection wouldn’t be penciled in to be the regular starters every day.  

[caulfield12]

15 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I agree infrastructure is better investment but JR is gonna say thats not a one time deal its a continuing investment. So if you are going to forego signing a 8-10m scrub like Merrifield and put it into operations by hiring say 12 more data analysts, buying better analytic programs and maybe 10 more development staff, that's a continuing expense year to year. It's not a one time deal and to keep it up he will have to deduct from each year's budget which could vary wildly. 

IMO, it's still certainly worth it but it may not be as easy for Getz to do as a simple one time expense, especially if JR is going to hide behind the high payrolls the last few years with no reward and the need to get some profits to antsy partners.

Should be able to get 16-18 data analysts with how many are willing to work for free or as interns just to get a foot in the door…