Sox looking at building in South Loop

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Bernstein sounded like a way more biased and jaded asshole than Holmes.  Bernstein only cares what this will do for the city of Chicago and not the White Sox.  Holmes is worried about all the Bridgeport area fans losing the ballpark.

Oh I agree, but I always knew Bernstein was a biased & jaded asshole.  I always liked Holmes, but just don’t like this take.  I’m glad he cares about the broader community, but acting like a stadium in the 78 wouldn’t be transformation (if done right) is absurd.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally I was worried about how this would affect Bridgeport, but Bridgeport will be fine. I actually think Bridgeport's proximity to Pilsen and Chinatown do more for the neighborhood than the presence of GRF.

[JoeC]

I'm pretty sure they can figure out how to make parking work on that site. If there's anything that engineers know how to do, it's to build parking and cram more cars into a confined space.

[tray]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

I'm pretty sure they can figure out how to make parking work on that site. If there's anything that engineers know how to do, it's to build parking and cram more cars into a confined space.

I'm not certain that parking garages would work for a variety of reasons. As I tried to explain, there is obviously a different fan experience at Wrigley vs GRF where people are able to drive their cars, park in a safe parking lot adjacent to the park, and tailgate if they choose..  Most fans (from the far SW suburbs, for example), are simply never going to use mass transit to commute to a game for security and other reasons. I am not sure how parking garages would work in a situation where almost everyone arrives and departs around the same time.  So parking is a major cost consideration along with the land required for them. Let's see a site plan with this proposed plan including how many parking spaces will be provided and how the ingress/egress to expressways will work.

As some have pointed out, GRF is only 2 El stops from Area 78 and there may be other issues with that site. How is moving there justified when all of the infrastructure and parking already exist on 35th Street ? It isn't like that site provides a view of the Lake or Burnham harbor. That, I think would be a different conversation.

In my time I have seen so many artistic architectural renderings designed to excite developers, but this is one of the few that I just cannot see as it stands. Too many unanswered questions and a lack of detail in the development plans.

 

[Chick Mercedes]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:55 AM, Tnetennba said:

I would call living in the neighborhood for 12 years a large enough sample size. I live here every single day, half a mile from the ballpark. How many games do you actually commute to?

You're dead fucking wrong, have been repeatedly proven wrong,  yet continue to dig a deeper hole. Good luck there champ, but with every single post you prove that you have less of a grasp of Chicago White Sox fan behavior than you've repeatedly stated in your many many inaccurate statements.

 

Edited February 1 by Chick Mercedes

[Chick Mercedes]

7 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Bernstein sounded like a way more biased and jaded asshole than Holmes.  Bernstein only cares what this will do for the city of Chicago and not the White Sox.  Holmes is worried about all the Bridgeport area fans losing the ballpark.

Those guys will craft any narrative which goes against the grain of popular opinion, because everyone else is stupid. They're so much smarter, and they endeavor to belittle.

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

The White Sox owe nothing to the city and Bridgeport.  The development of the area is up to them not the White Sox.  

You point out blocks of asphalt but that is a draw there, the parking.  Yes it's over priced but there are plenty of options.  That to me is the main drawback from the south loop site.  Adding bars and restaurants in that area doesn't work as you get in your car and leave that site.  Other then the big 10-15 games a year you're not getting the crowd.  Wrigley works because of the neighborhood.  The south loop could as well and extend and draw from UIC, PIlsen, etc.   This was what the new ball park was to do.  Move the city improvement seen on the northside from the mid 90s on to the south.

The loop needs a renaissance and that needs to come from well thought out individuals not what is currently running the city.  

The Bears could easily move to Bridgeport.  Plenty of land and easy to get to.

There has been a significant tax that looks to be extended for at least another 30 years on top of the previous 35 years. They said there is $50M still due on the current deal, so I'd say the Sox should rectify that if they want a penny of taxpayer money to go to this project. Or they can fund their business like 95% plus of businesses in Chicago do each and every day.

I do agree it is the responsibility of the city and state to negotiate the best deal for Bridgeport, the city at large, and the new site. To ensure Bridgeport is in a better state after Jerry leaves than when he was there. Should be a very low threshold to cross, but hoping for a big win / win for the city, community and White Sox.

Jerry demanded the entire neighborhood be demolished for his parking lots. The Cubs worked with their neighbors and eventually purchased their properties, and now their club which was purchased for $1M less than the White Sox is worth over $2B more, simply by being intelligent and not belligerent. That is the primary reason why Wrigley "works" and Jerry's stadium doesn't. Wrigleyville wasn't gentrified until after the Tribune purchased the team. Fireman Jim Murphy of Murphy's bleachers picked up multiple two/tree flats at low prices and made a mint.

Would say based on his comments in the linked video, LH and other thoughtful Sox fans can support the idea if it is done right. There is reason for concern it may not be "done right" for anyone (the Sox, the city, the state, Bridgeport) based on how the previous deal went down.

Just waiting for many details over the upcoming months and years, to make a proper assessment beyond this diversionary announcement to distract from the fact Jerry is likely fielding yet another 90 + loss team after fielding an 101 loss team last season, and slashing payroll by nearly a third in the process, during what was sold to fans after years of losing as a "multi-championship window".

[pcq]

I'm thinking Loop workers would have a nice mile long trek down to the yard and walking groups could easily congregate on Clark St. for this purpose. Sounds like a pleasant outing for me and my betrothed. I would also consider renaming the team at this juncture. 

[NO!!MARY!!!]

8 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

There is nothing wrong with the stadium after taxpayers fixed several substantial flaws, many of which insisted upon by Jerry during construction. The direction the park is facing is also due to Jerry’s ego and asinine instance of keeping the address 35th and Shields.

What is complete hot garbage is most of the teams and management Jerry has hired over 44 seasons. The White Sox basically have to sell another stadium because Jerry and his toadies and minions have completely fucked up the franchise. A franchise which was more valuable, cost more money, than the Cubs sold at the same exact time.

Jerry did his thing and turned the franchise into a pot of s%*# over the decades. The same exact process he used to turn the Bulls into a pot of s%*# once he pushed out Jordan, another gem Jerry inherited.

Jerry stiff armed the entire neighborhood @Buehrle>Wood, displaced hundreds of homes and created nothing but blocks of asphalt and ugly concrete. Screwed over McCuddy’s, destroyed the neighborhood. Now is the time to right a wrong, and for the city to lead development that will create a long lasting development of businesses and residencies that enhance, not scar, the community.

Blah blah blah blah blah. 

[nitetrain8601]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I think some amount of underground parking beneath the next buildings is feasible and probably pays for itself here as it would also support the rest of the development on the site. I’m sure JR would be excited to own that. However, it’s going to be naturally limited on site just by the nature of it being surface streets. It probably will happen in some form.

I think of Cincinatti and similar to that. It's right along the lake, but they did underground parking. With that said, it wouldn't fit every car if no one took public transportation. In all honesty, it promotes public trans better which helps the city. 

I think it's a no brainer. Your older fans will still want to be driven and they can be, but the core of your fanbase is going to be younger. Folks coming in from the downtown high schools, stretching all the way to Ignatius and Whitney Young, the UIC folks, and you will still get Bridgeport faithful who are willing to take 2 train stops north. I don't even think it's much farther from Ricobenes.

And the important thing, they don't have to do much to build an environment around the ballpark. In Bridgeport, they fought trying to do so. Bridgeport is very protective of their identity, similar to Pilsen. They want to ok any and everything going on. It's not just about making money, but making money their way. Sox are trying to make their franchise more attractive. Like I told folks a week ago, this has been in the works for awhile and it's not just some plan that was fast tracked. JR & Co have been talking about this with the proper powers since last May.

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

What, 35th Street Red Hots doesn't do it for you? 😆

Best cheap cheeseburgers in Chicago.

[nitetrain8601]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Best cheap cheeseburgers in Chicago.

Original Jim's which the new Sox stadium will be closer to is better. Only contender is Dave's Red Hots on the west side.

[HOFHurt35]

10 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Bernstein sounded like a way more biased and jaded asshole than Holmes.  Bernstein only cares what this will do for the city of Chicago and not the White Sox.  Holmes is worried about all the Bridgeport area fans losing the ballpark.

Bernstein and Holmes worried about "the best interest of the city"  and "tax money spent properly."

LOL, these guys are lucky to still be drawing hefty paychecks in a dying media  all due to sports.  But man, they really love latching on to politics all to show everyone "look at me on my high horse."

It's like I told my group of friends, seeing how government just pisses our money in the wind on bullshit,  I don't care if taxpayer money helps finance yet another White Sox stadium.  And same for the Bears.       

[Sambuca]

I’ve made it this far in life without listening to anyone on the Score talk for more than 15 seconds at a time. I plan to keep this streak going for the rest of my life. 

Honestly looks and sounds like a method of torture.

[WhiteSox2023]

13 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Bernstein and Holmes worried about "the best interest of the city"  and "tax money spent properly."

LOL, these guys are lucky to still be drawing hefty paychecks in a dying media  all due to sports.  But man, they really love latching on to politics all to show everyone "look at me on my high horse."

It's like I told my group of friends, seeing how government just pisses our money in the wind on bullshit,  I don't care if taxpayer money helps finance yet another White Sox stadium.  And same for the Bears.       

You nailed it.  Bernstein loves to get political.  My favorite part of the segment was when Bernstein actually made the argument that some Chicagoans aren’t sports fans at all so they don’t care about Sox fans getting a new stadium and only want to know what this new ballpark will add to the city outside of sports.  Parkins had to remind Bernstein that they are a sports radio show so sports is the backdrop for all of their discussions.

I’m actually curious how much these guys get paid.  I understand Bernstein due to his notoriety from the Boers era (even though he’s much worse without Terry) and Holmes because he seems to have multiple gigs including TV.  But I wouldn’t be surprised if a guy like Spiegel was only pulling in a 5 digit salary.

Edited February 2 by WhiteSox2023

[South Side Hit Men]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Best cheap cheeseburgers in Chicago.

Yes, and their co-owned Red Hot Ranch restaurants if you find yourself up north.

14 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Original Jim's which the new Sox stadium will be closer to is better. Only contender is Dave's Red Hots on the west side.

For Polish, it's Jimmy's on Pulaski and Grand, and don't sleep on the tamale. I also love Jim's Original. Really miss OG Maxwell Street back in the 1970s or 1980s before UIC stole that land too.

For hot dogs, all my Leon's Garden on a Bun joints are sadly gone, so Costco (yes Costco, though top at home with your own condiments) and Superdawg are the last ones standing for me.

RIP Rosebud. Long live Pompei!

Wally's 2742 N. Central = The GOAT

https://www.craigslostchicago.com/lost-eateries.php

 

[WhiteSox2023]

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yes, and their co-owned Red Hot Ranch restaurants if you find yourself up north.

For Polish, it's Jimmy's on Pulaski and Grand, and don't sleep on the tamale. I also love Jim's Original. Really miss OG Maxwell Street back in the 1970s or 1980s before UIC stole that land too.

For hot dogs, all my Leon's Garden on a Bun joints are sadly gone, so Costco (yes Costco, though top at home with your own condiments) and Superdawg are the last ones standing for me.

RIP Rosebud. Long live Pompei!

Wally's 2742 N. Central = The GOAT

https://www.craigslostchicago.com/lost-eateries.php

 

Are you referring to the $1.50 foot long special with a drink at the CostCo food court?  I’ll have to try it.  They say it’s all beef.  The 18” cheese or pepperoni pizzas for $9.95 each are pretty good for kids parties.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Are you referring to the $1.50 foot long special with a drink at the CostCo food court?  I’ll have to try it.  They say it’s all beef.  The 18” cheese or pepperoni pizzas for $9.95 each are pretty good for kids parties.

Yes, not the best hot dog in my life by any stretch, but decent due to size and lack of quality options. Don't need to eat anything else after polishing off one of those jumbo dogs. I also get gift cards from members to pick up their hot dogs from inside Costco without a membership.

Never a big fan of Vienna Hot Dogs, but loved Leon's which served Wally's, Bowser Dogs and other spots, and whoever Superdawg uses, though many times there I order their sausage. They announced they would soon have their own branded hot dog in Supermarkets, but I haven't seen them yet. 

I'm more picky about pizza, but it's my nephews go to when they head there. Both are great values, the Superdawg quite pricey around $7 or $9 if you include fries.

[WhiteSox2023]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yes, not the best hot dog in my life by any stretch, but decent due to size and lack of quality options. Don't need to eat anything else after polishing off one of those jumbo dogs. I also get gift cards from members to pick up their hot dogs from inside Costco without a membership.

Never a big fan of Vienna Hot Dogs, but loved Leon's which served Wally's, Bowser Dogs and other spots, and whoever Superdawg uses, though many times there I order their sausage. They announced they would soon have their own branded hot dog in Supermarkets, but I haven't seen them yet. 

I'm more picky about pizza, but it's my nephews go to when they head there. Both are great values, the Superdawg quite pricey around $7 or $9 if you include fries.

I’ll have to take my kids to Superdawg.  The char-broiled polish looks pretty good.  I always bought Hebrew National hot dogs but they aren’t into them as much anymore and prefer restaurant dogs.  What is your recommendation on store-bought hot dogs?

The best uncooked Italian sausage I’ve had is the fresh garlic sausage from the Original Nottoli’s on Belmont, not too far from Harlem.  Amazing sausage to grill if you love garlic.

[HOFHurt35]

54 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You nailed it.  Bernstein loves to get political.  My favorite part of the segment was when Bernstein actually made the argument that some Chicagoans aren’t sports fans at all so they don’t care about Sox fans getting a new stadium and only want to know what this new ballpark will add to the city outside of sports.  Parkins had to remind Bernstein that they are a sports radio show so sports is the backdrop for all of their discussions.

I’m actually curious how much these guys get paid.  I understand Bernstein due to his notoriety from the Boers era (even though he’s much worse without Terry) and Holmes because he seems to have multiple gigs including TV.  But I wouldn’t be surprised if a guy like Spiegel was only pulling in a 5 digit salary.

They all make over 6 figures, speaking of the actual fulltime hosts.  It's still lucrative enough that the Newspaper guys like Mully and Haugh left their jobs for this.   But the days of Mike North making $1.5 million a year are long gone. 

Also, I appreciated what Speigs told the the two Civic Clowns.   when he mentioned he's rooting for two healthy baseball teams for this city.   He gets it, without healthy sports their jobs are donzo. 

[South Side Hit Men]

45 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’ll have to take my kids to Superdawg.  The char-broiled polish looks pretty good.  I always bought Hebrew National hot dogs but they aren’t into them as much anymore and prefer restaurant dogs.  What is your recommendation on store-bought hot dogs?

The best uncooked Italian sausage I’ve had is the fresh garlic sausage from the Original Nottoli’s on Belmont, not too far from Harlem.  Amazing sausage to grill if you love garlic.

I don't buy hot dogs much for home anymore beyond the ones from Costco, but would give the SuperDawg branded dogs a chance. Not a fan of what is in most grocery stores today from the national brands or Vienna.

Admit I'm in the minority, as most Chicagoans seem to be at least OK with Vienna. Jimmy's Polish on the West Side are the only Vienna I still eat, and it's been a long time since I've been back.

[JoeC]

5 hours ago, tray said:

I'm not certain that parking garages would work for a variety of reasons. As I tried to explain, there is obviously a different fan experience at Wrigley vs GRF where people are able to drive their cars, park in a safe parking lot adjacent to the park, and tailgate if they choose..  Most fans (from the far SW suburbs, for example), are simply never going to use mass transit to commute to a game for security and other reasons. I am not sure how parking garages would work in a situation where almost everyone arrives and departs around the same time.  So parking is a major cost consideration along with the land required for them. Let's see a site plan with this proposed plan including how many parking spaces will be provided and how the ingress/egress to expressways will work.

As some have pointed out, GRF is only 2 El stops from Area 78 and there may be other issues with that site. How is moving there justified when all of the infrastructure and parking already exist on 35th Street ? It isn't like that site provides a view of the Lake or Burnham harbor. That, I think would be a different conversation.

In my time I have seen so many artistic architectural renderings designed to excite developers, but this is one of the few that I just cannot see as it stands. Too many unanswered questions and a lack of detail in the development plans.

 

Fans can adjust.

The one piece you're not taking into account is that modern sports fans are looking for a ballgame to be the centerpiece of a broader outing. That concept is in full display at Wrigley, and the trend of downtown stadiums is basically a giant supportive narrative of that. Heck - even the tailgating concept is evidence of this. Fans come to the ballpark a couple of hours early, hang out with friends, drink some beers, and eat some food, then watch the game, then go home. Just replace the tailgating with a few pregame pints or burgers a short walk away (read: "we can make more money than from fans tailgating").

I would venture to guess that, while you'll still have your fair share of tailgaters in the reduced-capacity lots, people will adjust and fill their time before and after the game by frequenting other establishments nearby. In other words, what you perceive as an innate desire for Sox fans to tailgate, I would assert is just fans' desire to want to be able to "make a day of it," and it makes no huge difference whether it's tailgating or whatever else that's "right there."

This is the model in Detroit - Comerica is right downtown, and the bars / restaurants down there are packed on game days. There are safe and convenient parking garages practically across the street, some privately operated surface lots where people tailgate, and even shuttles that will bring you in from the bars near Tiger Stadium (about a mile or two away from Comerica). Parking in the immediate walkable ring around Comerica has decreased as the area has filled in, but people are taking advantage of ride shares and public transit (street car that runs right past the ballpark).

Besides, the post you are responding to was a sarcastic post meant to convey that humans are capable of building things near (or sometimes even under) water.

[ron883]

13 hours ago, fathom said:

Yeah, it was a painful segment IMO.  I thought he quit being a Sox fan after Benetti left?

I'm surprised they took a break from defending Justin Fields and placing all the blame on the Bears organization. Fields would have been a HOFer if it wasn't for the Bears according to those guys. 

Edited February 2 by ron883

[WhiteSox2023]

16 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I'm surprised they took a break from defending Justin Fields and placing all the blame on the Bears organization. Fields would have been a HOFer if it wasn't for the Bears according to those guys. 

I actually listen to them more for comedy relief than their sports insights.  10-28 as the Bears starting QB.  True QB talent must never rise above poor coaching to these knuckleheads.

[WBWSF]

I get the impression  that the new stadium will be built in the South Loop. Nobody seems to be talking about this but what happens if the new stadium is not built? Will the White Sox stay at the present stadium?  Or will JR try to move the team out of state?