Gregory Santos Traded to Mariners for P Prelander Berroa, OF Zach DeLoach and 69th pick

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Between him and Salvy, a lot of hand wringing for nothing.  

Yeah, I was wondering when someone would say this.

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Between him and Salvy, a lot of hand wringing for nothing.  

As one of the hand wringers, thank god.

[ChiSox59]

16 hours ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Feel like we could have got more than a reliever, 4th OF, and a draft pick, but this seems fair-ish to me

Yeah, I feel like the Sox could have done better if they moved Santos last July before he was outted as a clubhouse napper, and then the elbow injury.  But it is what it is.  I am not in love with the deal, but do think the Sox could have similar results with Berroa as they did with Santos.  In exchange, they get a major league ready OF that might be a bit fringy and the 69th pick in 6 months.  I'd give the deal a C+, but you should always sell high on relievers that came out of no where.  

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

Gord Ash and the Blue Jays front office at the time steadfastly believed that KW sold them damaged goods. If memory serves they even tried to have the trade rescinded.

 

 

This is true, they went to Selig and wanted the trade rescinded. Selig ruled the Sox acted in good faith and the onus was on Toronto. The whole deal was dubbed "Shouldergate."

In fact Kenny Williams said that he warned Toronto about the injury and even offered (ironically) Jim Parque instead but they wanted Sirotka, (Ironic in the sense that Parque basically never pitched again either because of his injury suffered the same 2000 season) 

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Do you really think they will lose 110? Are they that much worse than last year?

110 might be a slight exaggeration but I do think they are much worse. For all the talk of improving the defense, they've added nothing to an already terrible offense. 2024 might not be as laughable as 2023, but I don't know how this squad will score runs.

[ChiSox59]

56 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think Crochet will be in the starting rotation at Charlotte 

That is fantastic news if true.  He only needs to spend ~3 weeks in Charlotte and Sox would get a year back. 

[hogan873]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Do you really think they will lose 110? Are they that much worse than last year?

They'll be better than last year.  There was a bad culture on last year's team, and that does have an effect on performance of a team.  They won't be dramatically better than last year, but they'll win more games.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Any injury is never a good sign. But to go from never a good sign to we don't know if he will pitch this year is a pretty big leap. 

As I wrote until he actually gets out there and performs we don't know what will happen will we?

I've listed pitchers in the organization who recently had this issue and then had to be shut down and have surgery. 

Is past prologue? 

Not necessarily but it can be a real indication of what may come.

Which is why I wrote that the Sox getting what they did given the uncertainties was a pleasant surprise to me.  

[fathom]

2 hours ago, Rowand44 said:

Unless I missed something I don't think Getz' plan of having Crochet being a starter this year is going to change because they traded someone they were most likely looking to trade to begin with.

Rosenthal reported today that it’s likely 

Edited February 5 by fathom

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Rosenthal reported today that it’s likely 

Rosenthal reported it’s likely that Crochet is the closer?

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

110 might be a slight exaggeration but I do think they are much worse. For all the talk of improving the defense, they've added nothing to an already terrible offense. 2024 might not be as laughable as 2023, but I don't know how this squad will score runs.

Who from the offensive side that they lost was any good tho? Burger and Andrus (all value on the defense side) were the only positive WAR players they lost.  And those guys are far from well rounded players at this point. 

TA and Yaz were god awful and well below replacement. All the fringy and fill in players were terrible.  

Even on the pitching side, everyone they lost was either literally awful, or decent but not spectular by any means (Gio, Clev, Reylo). 

I don't think this team is going to win 80 games or anything, but the defensive improvements will be significant and will help the pitching staff a lot.  I expect better seasons from Beni, Yoan and Eloy, with the latter two having by far the most critical season of their career for their future earnings.  AV should see some improvement.  

I am going with 70 wins right now. 

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Rosenthal reported it’s likely that Crochet is the closer?

I read that as he'll be stretched out in Charlotte.  I know you're in support of that. 

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Rosenthal reported it’s likely that Crochet is the closer?

Yes, “expected to return as the closer”

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I read that as he'll be stretched out in Charlotte.  I know you're in support of that. 

Oh I’m 100% supportive of that.  Getting that year back would be huge and would allow us to manage his innings very conservatively without concern how it would impact an actual major league game.

[GreenSox]

13 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

1M + reasons why that is more valuable then the player taken with the pick

It won't make much difference if the Sox don't improve their picking.

It gives them an extra pick.   Like any pick, they can overslot/underslot.  But in the end, if they overslot in this (or any) spot, they underslot somewhere else.

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who from the offensive side that they lost was any good tho? Burger and Andrus (all value on the defense side) were the only positive WAR players they lost.  And those guys are far from well rounded players at this point. 

TA and Yaz were god awful and well below replacement. All the fringy and fill in players were terrible.  

Even on the pitching side, everyone they lost was either literally awful, or decent but not spectular by any means (Gio, Clev, Reylo). 

I don't think this team is going to win 80 games or anything, but the defensive improvements will be significant and will help the pitching staff a lot.  I expect better seasons from Beni, Yoan and Eloy, with the latter two having by far the most critical season of their career for their future earnings.  AV should see some improvement.  

I am going with 70 wins right now. 

I honestly don't think the defense will make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps a slight improvement, but not significant enough to make up for what might be the worst hitting team in the league. I also don't have much faith that the scrap heap pitching staff is any better than last year, even if Cease is in 2022 form. I'm not trying to sound super negative, but it's hard for me to squint and see any improvement.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I honestly don't think the defense will make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps a slight improvement, but not significant enough to make up for what might be the worst hitting team in the league. I also don't have much faith that the scrap heap pitching staff is any better than last year, even if Cease is in 2022 form. I'm not trying to sound super negative, but it's hard for me to squint and see any improvement.

Or their defense will fall off a cliff from career norms like Benintendi

[DirtySox]

I don't buy Crochet as closer. They just recently announced he's going to be stretched out. This team doesn't need him as a closer when they are going to lose 100.

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I honestly don't think the defense will make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps a slight improvement, but not significant enough to make up for what might be the worst hitting team in the league. I also don't have much faith that the scrap heap pitching staff is any better than last year, even if Cease is in 2022 form. I'm not trying to sound super negative, but it's hard for me to squint and see any improvement.

I get it.  

The defense has just been so bad.  Especially SS, RF, C and 3B when burger was there.  Sox lost so many runs from TA and RF.  As a pitcher, its just so demoralizing when that s%*# happens. 

But scoring runs is definitely going to be an issue.  This is a bottom 3 offense in the league without significant improvements from Eloy, Beni, AV and Yoan.   

[WhiteSox2023]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I get it.  

The defense has just been so bad.  Especially SS, RF, C and 3B when burger was there.  Sox lost so many runs from TA and RF.  As a pitcher, its just so demoralizing when that s%*# happens. 

But scoring runs is definitely going to be an issue.  This is a bottom 3 offense in the league without significant improvements from Eloy, Beni, AV and Yoan.   

The bottom three of the lineup could be historically bad with DeJong, Maldonado, and Lopez likely down there.

[ptatc]

23 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As I wrote until he actually gets out there and performs we don't know what will happen will we?

I've listed pitchers in the organization who recently had this issue and then had to be shut down and have surgery. 

Is past prologue? 

Not necessarily but it can be a real indication of what may come.

Which is why I wrote that the Sox getting what they did given the uncertainties was a pleasant surprise to me.  

Its always possible. But if you are talking likelihood with injuries it's a different story. 

[Tnetennba]

Just now, fathom said:

Or their defense will fall off a cliff from career norms like Benintendi

Exactly. He's #1 on my s%*# list of guys who I see regressing further. If Fletcher or Deloach struggle in the field, Robert is back to covering far too much ground, which isn't exactly a recipe for keeping him healthy. Moncada is no lock to stay healthy either and Vaughn and Maldonado are hardly Gold Glovers. So we are banking on Lopez and Dejong to vastly improve the whole defense? I don't see it. Perhaps a slight improvement, but not significant enough to save them from 100+ losses again. 

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Exactly. He's #1 on my s%*# list of guys who I see regressing further. If Fletcher or Deloach struggle in the field, Robert is back to covering far too much ground, which isn't exactly a recipe for keeping him healthy. Moncada is no lock to stay healthy either and Vaughn and Maldonado are hardly Gold Glovers. So we are banking on Lopez and Dejong to vastly improve the whole defense? I don't see it. Perhaps a slight improvement, but not significant enough to save them from 100+ losses again. 

At the plate at least, I expect a solid year from Beni now that his wrist is fully healed.

Like 280/360 and 15 HRs. 

IMO if we throw in some money it could get us something at the deadline

[Quin]

12 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The bottom three of the lineup could be historically bad with DeJong, Maldonado, and Lopez likely down there.

If you told me that Maldonado hits .150 this year, I'd believe you.

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

At the plate at least, I expect a solid year from Beni now that his wrist is fully healed.

Like 280/360 and 15 HRs. 

IMO if we throw in some money it could get us something at the deadline

Lets hope. His deal looks atrocious now, and his bat needs to make up for his regression in the field.