Is it too early to wish to start the Gatz watch?

[wrathofhahn]

 

Although I am aware that he was only recently hired, he has really underperformed in his scouting work under Hahn, and his work after being promoted to me has been extremely subpar.

Though it might sound crazy, I have already completely lost faith in him as general manager. I do not think any of his offseason moves will pay off. This, in my opinion, is what occurs when you hire someone who performed poorly in their prior position and, for some reason, you give him a promotion.

 

[southsider2k5]

There is zero chance he gets fired in the next three years without committing a crime.  Even then using the TLR standard, probably not.

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

Although I am aware that he was only recently hired, he has really underperformed in his scouting work under Hahn, and his work after being promoted to me has been extremely subpar.

Though it might sound crazy, I have already completely lost faith in him as general manager. I do not think any of his offseason moves will pay off. This, in my opinion, is what occurs when you hire someone who performed poorly in their prior position and, for some reason, you give him a promotion.

 

What scouting work are you referring to?

[hogan873]

"Gatz" will never be fired.  However, Getz will be given a few years to build the team.  Maybe if JR kicks off or sells the team within the next few years a new owner might decide to clean house.  But, Getz hasn't done anything to warrant being fired.  He's actually done a pretty good job with the limitations he has.

If this team is not competing for the division and playoffs by 2026, he may be on thin ice.  However, I just don't see JR canning him anytime soon.

[Balta1701]

We started a Fire Chris Getz thread on the day he was announced I believe. It's probably on page 2 of Pale Hose Talk because it's regularly bumped. It will probably be bumped pretty regularly this year. The development of the players he has acquired will determine whether it finally falls back a few pages in 2025 or it challenges the Cease thread in length by 2026.

[Tnetennba]

Who?

[Tnetennba]

What?

[Lip Man 1]

Impossible to say. It simply depends on when new ownership arrives. When it does he'll be fired since they will want to bring in their own people. 

[WhiteSox2023]

 

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

"Gatz" will never be fired.  However, Getz will be given a few years to build the team.  Maybe if JR kicks off or sells the team within the next few years a new owner might decide to clean house.  But, Getz hasn't done anything to warrant being fired.  He's actually done a pretty good job with the limitations he has.

If this team is not competing for the division and playoffs by 2026, he may be on thin ice.  However, I just don't see JR canning him anytime soon.

Jay Gatsby...?

 

https://theathletic.com/5325414/2024/03/14/mlb-franchise-rankings-wild-card-era/?source=freedailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=310262

White Sox 17th most successful franchise from 1995-2023...mired in mediocrity, pretty much.  Almost feels too high now.

[Tony]

Getz will be here until Jerry is no longer the owner of the Chicago White Sox 

[Tnetennba]

I honestly couldn't tell if this was about Getz or Katz. And if Gatz is some amalgam of both, they both can go. Not that either of them are at any risk of losing their jobs any time soon.

[South Side Hit Men]

39 minutes ago, Tony said:

Getz will be here until Jerry is no longer the owner of the Chicago White Sox 

This is my choice, but wasn’t a poll option. Jerry will be happy that Getz will continue to lower payroll and may keep it below the league TV / MLB.com payout of $104M and growing for the rest of Jerry’s life. 

He ha more than enough revenue to cover organizational staff and book substantial guaranteed annual net profit before even counting his RSN revenue and other non baseball related White Sox income.

(317) White Sox Organization Chart

(20) Senior Leadership

• 7 Board of Directors
• 13 Officers (Also Includes Jerry)

(37) General Administrative

• 5 Administrative Staff
• 12 Accounting
• 5 Business Analytics
• 6 Central Support Services
• 6 Data Processing / MIS 
• 3 Human Resources

(71) Baseball Operations

• 2 Amateur Scouting
• 20 Major League Medical Staff
• 34 Major League Operations
• 6 Major League Training Staff
• 9 Minor League Operations

(128) Marketing, Public Relations & Sales

• 13 Advertising & Marketing
• 5 Broadcasting
• 9 Community Relations
• 10 Community Relations Specialists (Ex-Ballplayers)
• 13 Corporate Partnerships
• 6 Design Services
• 8 Digital Communications
• 9 Media & Public Relations 
• 51 Ticket Sales & Ticket Office
• 4 Youth Baseball Programs

(61) Stadium Operations

• 14 At Your Service (Jerry owned “security” firm ) 
• 4 Clubhouse Staff
• 11 Game & Video Presentation & Scoreboard Operations
• 32 Park Operations

[JoshPR]

1 trade and now people want him fired. The whitesox need a culture change.... So does Soxtalk. You could get 2 top 100 prospects and some will complain it was not 2 top 10. I feel Getz got what he could at the moment for cease. 

[Balta1701]

39 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

1 trade and now people want him fired. The whitesox need a culture change.... So does Soxtalk. You could get 2 top 100 prospects and some will complain it was not 2 top 10. I feel Getz got what he could at the moment for cease. 

Yes he did, because Getz blinked and took the best available offer rather than waiting into the season to see if Cease could build value by performing better than he did in a disappointing 2023. 

[JoshPR]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes he did, because Getz blinked and took the best available offer rather than waiting into the season to see if Cease could build value by performing better than he did in a disappointing 2023. 

Fair point . But what if he didn't build? What if something went wrong? Then the complaint would be he held on too long. I'm not saying Getz is the be all end all of GMs but sheesh

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Fair point . But what if he didn't build? What if something went wrong? Then the complaint would be he held on too long. I'm not saying Getz is the be all end all of GMs but sheesh

I was on the record saying if Getz held him and something went wrong, I was ok with that risk unless the offers were great right now.

This has more in it than the Brewers deal for Burns, but it definitely doesn't make us look at the White Sox's future any differently. We were demanding a deal that would reshape this organization, giving it top level talent, and they didn't get that. They are desperate enough to find that type of talent that I think it was worth gambling on Cease's performance to try to get it.

[JoshPR]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I was on the record saying if Getz held him and something went wrong, I was ok with that risk unless the offers were great right now.

This has more in it than the Brewers deal for Burns, but it definitely doesn't make us look at the White Sox's future any differently. We were demanding a deal that would reshape this organization, giving it top level talent, and they didn't get that. They are desperate enough to find that type of talent that I think it was worth gambling on Cease's performance to try to get it.

Ok. I see your point. But that's different then asking for someone's head. I took tought they would wait. But they didn't. Getz played it safe. We as fans have to live with it. Plus what is it worth. JR will never finish the rebuild when it's time to dish out money

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Ok. I see your point. But that's different then asking for someone's head. I took tought they would wait. But they didn't. Getz played it safe. We as fans have to live with it. Plus what is it worth. JR will never finish the rebuild when it's time to dish out money

They've clearly picked a set of directions to take this offseason, some of which is positive (they didn't trade for Perez! No long term horrible deals!) some of these are questionable (spending decent money on their Vetz, trading away guys like Mena for reasons we don't get, blinking on this trade rather than trying to maximize the return). 

Like it or not, Getz brought in no success at all in his last job and clearly failed upwards. He doesn't have a record that gives any reason to have a confidence in him, so if a deal looks questionable on paper, we're going to write those questions now. We cannot tell how he is going to work based on the returns so far, they might have nailed this trade and wound up with several good players. If they did, the heat will vanish and he will get compliments. If they did not, then the only reason there won't be heat on him is that they'll be down to precisely 23 remaining people in the Chicago area who care any more.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 3/14/2024 at 1:44 PM, Balta1701 said:

I was on the record saying if Getz held him and something went wrong, I was ok with that risk unless the offers were great right now.

This has more in it than the Brewers deal for Burns, but it definitely doesn't make us look at the White Sox's future any differently. We were demanding a deal that would reshape this organization, giving it top level talent, and they didn't get that. They are desperate enough to find that type of talent that I think it was worth gambling on Cease's performance to try to get it.

Now that you would've been Ok with it I feel better. (sarcasm) but a lot more of us here wouldn't be good with a zero return.

3 top 10 prospects from a No 5 or so farm system who slot into our own top 10 into what was a 15-20 ranked farm system. I'm good with it.

It's not Getz' job to take huge risks and come up empty handed when there is a huge need for talent and depth. It's his job to build a team.

Thank JR for what he's done this offseason. JR is probably thrilled so far.

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Now that you would've been Ok with it I feel better. (sarcasm) but a lot more of us here wouldn't be good with a zero return.

3 top 10 prospects from a No 5 or so farm system who slot into our own top 10 into what was a 15-20 ranked farm system. I'm good with it.

It's not Getz' job to take huge risks and come up empty handed when there is a huge need for talent and depth. It's his job to build a team.

Thank JR for what he's done this offseason. JR is probably thrilled so far.

JR is calling the shots. He has never cared much if at all in terms of prospects acquired, drafted or signed. All he cares about is a net $7.2M drop in payroll.

I thought there was a chance he would dump Benintendi, Eloy and or Moncada in a Cease trade for less prospect return if he could drop payroll under $100M,

I don't suspect payroll will be above $100M after this season until he passes or we are in the early to mid 2030s and he gets a free or mostly free stadium somewhere. The Sox were literally dead last in payroll the final four seasons at Comiskey Park. and below average the first two years at the new stadium despite record attendance.

 

[Lip Man 1]

59 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

JR is calling the shots. He has never cared much if at all in terms of prospects acquired, drafted or signed. All he cares about is a net $7.2M drop in payroll.

I thought there was a chance he would dump Benintendi, Eloy and or Moncada in a Cease trade for less prospect return if he could drop payroll under $100M,

I don't suspect payroll will be above $100M after this season until he passes or we are in the early to mid 2030s and he gets a free or mostly free stadium somewhere. The Sox were literally dead last in payroll the final four seasons at Comiskey Park. and below average the first two years at the new stadium despite record attendance.

 

And don't forget during the three years of the "rebuild", they were near the bottom or one year at the bottom in terms of payroll spent. 

[hi8is]

Yes.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

And don't forget during the three years of the "rebuild", they were near the bottom or one year at the bottom in terms of payroll spent. 

• I believe Cot's Contracts run by Baseball Prospectus is the best source, but only goes back to 2000.https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/ (Click team logo to get payrolls for each team from 2000 to present)
• Spotrac is also a good source, but only goes back to 2011. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/
• I used Baseball Cube, not sure their exact sourcing or if it's OD, Final Payroll, or some other method. Baseball Cube goes back to 1988.
  • https://www.thebaseballcube.com/page.asp?PT=payroll_year&ID=1988

 

For other sources, I found the Sox may not have been last in 1987 payroll, so I will only claim the last three years in Comiskey as being in dead last from now on. Using Baseball Cube for a consistent source throughout the past 36 years.

There have been two seasons with a payroll over $128M (2022 and 2023). Not sure if that mark will ever be broached again in Jerry's tenure. ALso, about 2/3 of the amount listed in 1994 and 1/3 in 2020 were actually paid to players, due to the respective walkout (1994) and owner lockout (2020).

MLB Teams: 26 (1988-1992); 28 (1993-1997); 30 (1998-2023)

11 Seasons the White Sox finished in the Top Third in payroll (1988-2023):

862-853 .5026

• 1994 8th ($38.4M) 67-46 .593
• 1995 5th ($39.6M) 68-76 .472
• 1996 5th ($41.9M) 85-77 .525
• 1997 3rd ($54.4M) 80-81 .497
• 2006 4th ($102.8M) 90-72 .556
• 2007 5th ($108.7M) 72-90 .444
• 2008 5th ($121.2M) 89-74 .546
• 2010 7th ($108.3M) 88-74 .543
• 2011 5th ($127.8M) 79-83 .488
• 2013 9th ($124.9M) 63-99 .389
• 2022 7th ($190.8M) 81-81 .500

16 Seasons the White Sox finished in the Middle Third in payroll (1988-2023):

1,253-1,240 .5026

• 1992 17th ($28.4M) 86-76 .531
• 1993 13th ($34.6M) 94-68 .580
• 1998 18th ($36.8M) 80-82 .494
• 2001 14th ($65.6M) 83-79 .512
• 2002 18th ($57.1M) 81-81 .500
• 2004 15th ($65.2M) 83-79 .512
• 2005 13th ($75.2M) 99-63 .611
• 2009 12th ($96.1M) 79-83 .488
• 2012 11th  ($96.9M) 85-77 .525
• 2014 20th ($91.2M) 73-89 .451
• 2015 18th ($110.7M) 76-86 .469
• 2016 16th ($116.0M) 78-87 .481
• 2017 20th ($109.6M) 67-95 .414
• 2020 18th ($120.9M) 35-25 .583
• 2021 15th ($127.1M) 93-69 .574
• 2023 12th ($174.9M) 61-101 .377

9 Seasons the White Sox finished in the Bottom Third in payroll (1988-2023):

711-743 .4890

• 1988 26th ($5.9M) 71-90 .441
• 1989 26th ($7.6M) 69-92 .429
• 1990 26th ($9.5M) 94-68 .580
• 1991 23rd ($16.8M) 87-75 .537
• 1999 24th ($24.6M) 75-86 .466
• 2000 26th ($31.2M) 95-67 .586
• 2003 22nd ($51.0M) 86-76 .531
• 2018 29th ($72.2M) 62-100 .383
• 2019 26th ($89.4M) 72-89 .447

[greg775]

On 3/14/2024 at 2:19 PM, JoshPR said:

The whitesox need a culture change.... So does Soxtalk. You could get 2 top 100 prospects and some will complain it was not 2 top 10.

I think the problem is the Sox just were in tank mode and it didn't work. Now they are back in tank mode. For me it means total disinterest in the team. Hard to change the "culture" of fan negativity. The Cease trade is underwhelming because we traded one of our "name" players for guys we've never heard of. Can't give a nobody like Getz the benefit of the doubt. Sox have a horrible manager and an inexperienced GM. Yikes.