Garrett Crochet named Opening Day starter

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 Cease did?

I bet 90% of pitchers did.

[Chicago White Sox]

13 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I bet 90% of pitchers did.

Cease’s spin rate on his 4 seamer was actually higher in 2023 than it was in 2020 & 2019.  His slider is mostly the same with 2020 and well above 2019.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 Cease did?

In his career, his 2 highest fastball spin rate months are April and May 2021. His 2nd lowest is July 2021. Super narrow range in 2022-2023 with the exception of a very low April of 2022. On his last start before the spin rate checks, his fastball spun at 2592 rpm. The next start it was at 2318.

He clearly made some mechanical changes or other types of changes later in the year to account for this drop-off so we see his spin rate recover later in 2021 (just not to the same peak of April), but yes 100% Dylan Cease was using the sticky stuff in April and May of 2021 and he had a 270 RPM drop on the day they started the foreign substance checks. 

[Balta1701]

47 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Cease’s spin rate on his 4 seamer was actually higher in 2023 than it was in 2020 & 2019.  His slider is mostly the same with 2020 and well above 2019.

I don't think it's as obvious that he was using in 2020, he may well not have been, there's a solid suggestion that he started using it in April of 2021 and then stopped on the day the ban began coming from his game by game spin rates. In 2020 he averaged 2516, in 2022 he averaged 2507, in May of 2021 his 4 seamer averaged 2647 rpm. No other month in his career comes close to May of 2021, it's like he was throwing a different pitch. 

[WestEddy]

nevermind

Edited March 20 by WestEddy

[WestEddy]

18 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, Katz was important in helping Rodon turn his career around.

But the specific subject was whether we had confidence in them using Crochet responsibly, and how Katz would totally use a guy responsibly. Except, with the biggest reclamation project in Katz's career, Rodon, the pitcher was used totally irresponsibly! He threw a 9 inning, 114 pitch no hitter in the 2nd game of the season, and then he was back on the mound 6 days later, no extra rest! They had him throw 90+ pitches per start in literally every outing he had until after the All Star Break. He threw 430 pitches in 4 starts in June. Somehow, this pitcher broke down, how could that have happened when they took such care of his arm? That seems pretty darn relevant.

Other stuff that seems relevant from those breakout pitchers. Davis Martin - had a pretty decent 2022. Blew out his elbow.
Gregory Santos - Had a good 2023. Has had multiple injury issues since September. 

As of right now, I don't see any reason why "Ethan Katz totally knows what he's doing why are you criticizing Pedro" is anything I should believe. 

Every day on MLB trade rumors, there's another story about a pitcher going down with arm problems. It seems like that's kind of a risk of pitching. Or maybe 30 organizations are abusing pitchers by making them throw baseballs hard. 

Pitchers pitch. If they're healthy, they throw 90-100 pitches a game. Weird how, in 2022, Rodon went to SF, in a system overseen by Brian Bannister, threw 90+ pitches in his first 6 games, and didn't break down. Some of those were with only 4 (gasp!) days rest. Look at his 2022 game logs. Pretend he was pitching on the White Sox that year. Pretend he got hurt like he pretty much did every single year on the White Sox. Now make up an argument about how he was misused. See how fun this game can be?

Seriously, I don't care who you think has credibility or not. You think that a pitcher should take years and years and years to come back from injury, or turn from reliever to starter. I'll stick with listening to the guys who are getting paid to oversee pitching for major league teams, and not an internet guy who complains about every single development. 

[Balta1701]

28 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Every day on MLB trade rumors, there's another story about a pitcher going down with arm problems. It seems like that's kind of a risk of pitching. Or maybe 30 organizations are abusing pitchers by making them throw baseballs hard. 

Pitchers pitch. If they're healthy, they throw 90-100 pitches a game. Weird how, in 2022, Rodon went to SF, in a system overseen by Brian Bannister, threw 90+ pitches in his first 6 games, and didn't break down. Some of those were with only 4 (gasp!) days rest. Look at his 2022 game logs. Pretend he was pitching on the White Sox that year. Pretend he got hurt like he pretty much did every single year on the White Sox. Now make up an argument about how he was misused. See how fun this game can be?

Seriously, I don't care who you think has credibility or not. You think that a pitcher should take years and years and years to come back from injury, or turn from reliever to starter. I'll stick with listening to the guys who are getting paid to oversee pitching for major league teams, and not an internet guy who complains about every single development. 

Yes, absolutely weird how a guy who was injured might get exhausted after 120 innings one year and then be able to throw 178 innings the next year. No one could possibly have foreseen how that might work out. Why, you'd think that muscles get stronger when you use them, but everyone knows that isn't true, muscles get stronger when your elite pitching coach says they are strong. 

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, absolutely weird how a guy who was injured might get exhausted after 120 innings one year and then be able to throw 178 innings the next year. No one could possibly have foreseen how that might work out. Why, you'd think that muscles get stronger when you use them, but everyone knows that isn't true, muscles get stronger when your elite pitching coach says they are strong. 

Your argument that Katz ruined Rodon by not overruling Tony LaRussa and demanding that Rodon not finish his no-hit bid is silly. 4 days of rest is normal for a 5-man rotation. Every single one of Rodon's #2-7 starts were thrown on extra rest (5-8 days rest between starts). Perhaps you think Rodon should have had years and years to recover from that 114 pitch game. 

I'm not even sure what you're arguing, at this point. Looks like Rodon was ramped up responsibly after his TJS. When was Rodon exhausted? By reading your comments? Rodon was throwing 60+ game score games in September of 2021. 

The Yankees and Dodgers, organizations that certainly have reputations of being successful with pitchers, have more pitchers on the IL than the White Sox do. Sounds like you're saying that Katz is the one of the best pitching coaches in baseball. 

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, absolutely weird how a guy who was injured might get exhausted after 120 innings one year and then be able to throw 178 innings the next year. No one could possibly have foreseen how that might work out. Why, you'd think that muscles get stronger when you use them, but everyone knows that isn't true, muscles get stronger when your elite pitching coach says they are strong. 

How many pitches for the no hitter against Detroit I think it was...really pretty cold weather that day as well.

Still...pretty hard to imagine more than a handful of managers pulling him.

And of course they pretty much knew that was going to be his final season with the Sox as well.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Your argument that Katz ruined Rodon by not overruling Tony LaRussa and demanding that Rodon not finish his no-hit bid is silly.

Well hey this poster is insisting that Katz clearly will be a key guy in charge of handling Crochet now and so I shouldn't worry. Talk to him, he said earlier that the manager won't be in charge and here you say that the pitching coach clearly wouldn't get to overrule the manager. 

20 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I'm guessing that Katz and Bannister are making this call, not really Grifol. Or if Grifol decided on it, that was based on very narrow stipulations. He's probably good to go on an inning/pitch limit, and a game/pitch limit. And they'll increase that as they feel he's able to push it. 

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

How many pitches for the no hitter against Detroit I think it was...really pretty cold weather that day as well.

Still...pretty hard to imagine more than a handful of managers pulling him.

And of course they pretty much knew that was going to be his final season with the Sox as well.

The no-hitter against Cleveland. 114 pitches. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA202104140.shtml

Game time temp was 45 degrees. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

How many pitches for the no hitter against Detroit I think it was...really pretty cold weather that day as well.

Still...pretty hard to imagine more than a handful of managers pulling him.

And of course they pretty much knew that was going to be his final season with the Sox as well.

Naw, I get not pulling him. That stuff happens, get him the no hitter.

I don't get him throwing 110 pitches 6 days later. Walked 5 in 5 innings that day. That's pushing a guy too hard. I don't get him getting no extra time off in the first half. I don't get him throwing >90 pitches in every start on his list until the 2nd half, including his first start of the year.

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well hey this poster is insisting that Katz clearly will be a key guy in charge of handling Crochet now and so I shouldn't worry. Talk to him, he said earlier that the manager won't be in charge and here you say that the pitching coach clearly wouldn't get to overrule the manager. 

Again, I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. Rodon did get extra days' rest between is first 7 starts. He was still pitching strong in September. I don't think you really understand how organizations treat injuries, and you just argue that whatever the White Sox did was wrong. Because reasons. 

The manager manages the game with advisement from his coaches. On a higher level, I don't believe Grifol is making long-term decisions on pitcher development, or rehab. I would think Getz makes those calls, with heavy advisement from Katz and Bannister. Go ahead and argue with that, now. 

[South Side Hit Men]

46 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well hey this poster is insisting that Katz clearly will be a key guy in charge of handling Crochet now and so I shouldn't worry. Talk to him, he said earlier that the manager won't be in charge and here you say that the pitching coach clearly wouldn't get to overrule the manager. 

The most important aspect in 2024 is prospect acquisition and player development. Not sure what we’ll get on that front, but the most interesting development may be seeing unfold who is running the show this season between Getz, Grifol and or Tony.

Getz doesn’t have to address publicly areas Grifol needs to work similar to Hahn’s public criticism of Ricky. Getz does need to assert authority over the roster, overall playing time and pitcher usage.

Hoping against logic they will come together and manage things better than expectations this season. I was hopeful until February.

[flavum]

Tomorrow’s Crochet start vs KC is on MLB Network.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

30 minutes ago, flavum said:

Tomorrow’s Crochet start vs KC is on MLB Network.

Is there a streaming service that offers MLB Network AND White Sox baseball?

MLB really are a bunch of idiots.

[Tnetennba]

5 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

Crochet

Soroka

Fedde

Who?

Why?

[Bob Sacamano]

34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Is there a streaming service that offers MLB Network AND White Sox baseball?

MLB really are a bunch of idiots.

I miss MLBN on Youtube TV.

[caulfield12]

43 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Crochet

Soroka

Fedde

Who?

Why?

Flexen is obviously one...Deivi Garcia's a good possibility for 5th, after Nastrini for now.

Edited March 21 by caulfield12

[Timmy U]

Personally, I would go Flexen and Nastrini. I don’t think Deivi Garcia is stretched out.  I believe he is destined for the pen.

[Balta1701]

With him already throwing 4 innings today does anyone still want to say that they have confidence he will only be used as an opener?

[WhiteSox2023]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

With him already throwing 4 innings today does anyone still want to say that they have confidence he will only be used as an opener?

No, just like I thought the Sox would be smart enough to never play Sheets in RF again.

[chitownsportsfan]

47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

With him already throwing 4 innings today does anyone still want to say that they have confidence he will only be used as an opener?

He's a ballplayer. Use him.

[South Side Hit Men]

40 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

With him already throwing 4 innings today does anyone still want to say that they have confidence he will only be used as an opener?

Crochet mentioned his pitch count as the reason he was pulled after post game comments his previous ST start.

The Spring Training Games do not have accurate pitch counts, with nearly all balls in play recorded as one pitch, and all strikeouts or walks recorded as 0-3 or 4-0, respectively.

https://www.mlb.com/player/garrett-crochet-676979?stats=gamelogs-s-pitching-mlb&year=2024

I didn't watch or listen, but assume he pitched more than 31 pitches today over 3 2/3 IP with 5 H, 1BB and 2 Ks, and very likely more than in his last more efficient outing (3 IP, 2 H, 0 BB).

Assuming they are managing reasonable pitch counts, and Pedro doesn't deviate to get him a quality start, no hitter, or some other personal milestone, hopefully it will work out.