Baron Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 He's -8 in DRS. How is that good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I really do not get where you're coming from. Fuck value, give the pitchers some defense behind them. Too many times I've see Leury, Delmonico and Palka look like they are chasing ghosts out there. We all know and it should go without saying that Engel is not the long term solution in CF. But him and his glove are fine for the time being until something better comes up from the minors, even if it's not until 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: I really do not get where you're coming from. Fuck value, give the pitchers some defense behind them. Too many times I've see Leury, Delmonico and Palka look like they are chasing ghosts out there. We all know and it should go without saying that Engel is not the long term solution in CF. But him and his glove are fine for the time being until something better comes up from the minors, even if it's not until 2019. Please don't lump Leury in with those other guys. He's actually a fine defender at 2-3 positions including center field. If the SOX would have just put him in center on opening day instead of playing him 15 minutes a week while Engel wasted every ones time, we might have 3-4 more wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 hour ago, zisk said: Please don't lump Leury in with those other guys. He's actually a fine defender at 2-3 positions including center field. If the SOX would have just put him in center on opening day instead of playing him 15 minutes a week while Engel wasted every ones time, we might have 3-4 more wins. A fine defender in CF ? If that were true the CF job would have been his from the start. Leury does OK for a player that's an infielder by trade but he's not a good center fielder. Not that Engel is the best CF, just the best one available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 hour ago, zisk said: Please don't lump Leury in with those other guys. He's actually a fine defender at 2-3 positions including center field. If the SOX would have just put him in center on opening day instead of playing him 15 minutes a week while Engel wasted every ones time, we might have 3-4 more wins. He sure looked great in left field on opening day at home didn't he? He's an infielder trying to play the outfield (like Delmonico) and that usually doesn't work very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Leury is fine in the outfield but does make mistakes that you'd expect from an infielder playing the outfield. He generally makes up for it in my view by making some exceptional plays and using his speed to make some tough plays look easy. I think it balances out to about an average defender. I mentioned this in the game thread that it seems like he's been making many more mistakes in LF than CF this year, but I don't know what good reason there would be for that and it may just be coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 It’s harder to read the ball off the bat in left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 On 9/15/2017 at 2:17 PM, southsider2k5 said: QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) So regarding Engel's lukewarm defensive metrics...I trust this more https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/outs_above_a...2017&min=50 God I love baseball savant. The interesting bit there is that it rates Avi as completely nuetral. 0. Per the savant, Leury was only -1 last season and is +1 this season; maybe there is something to giving him more time and seeing if he can improve; his offense is at least passable for CF. Engel was well in the + range both seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Engel is the worst offensive OF in CHW history. His defense is good but even Willie Mays wouldn't be able to make up for his bat. He has a 35 wRC+/36 OPS+. That is well words can't really do it justice. Baseball reference already has him at a -1 WAR. That means right now he's projected to finish with a -4 WAR. There have only been 20 players according to BR who have had a -4 WAR or greater in MLB history. He's been that bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Engel is the worst offensive OF in CHW history. His defense is good but even Willie Mays wouldn't be able to make up for his bat. He has a 35 wRC+/36 OPS+. That is well words can't really do it justice. Baseball reference already has him at a -1 WAR. That means right now he's projected to finish with a -4 WAR. There have only been 20 players according to BR who have had a -4 WAR or greater in MLB history. He's been that bad. You must not have been a fan of the White Sox very long, because I’m pretty sure there was an outfielder worse than Engel offensively on last year’s team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You must not have been a fan of the White Sox very long, because I’m pretty sure there was an outfielder worse than Engel offensively on last year’s team. Who? Saladino was an infielder. Are you talking about May? He barely had a cup of coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: Who? Saladino was an infielder. Are you talking about May? He barely had a cup of coffee. I was just giving you a hard time, but let’s never forget how bad May was last year: 42 PA, .056/.150/.056/.206, -42 wRC+, -0.7 fWAR I mean, May was so bad they cut bait after 42 plate appearances. Doesn’t change the fact that Engle is a terrible baseball player though 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 16 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: He sure looked great in left field on opening day at home didn't he? He's an infielder trying to play the outfield (like Delmonico) and that usually doesn't work very well. Remember that one time that one guy made that one bad play? Yeah, he sucks at defense because of that one play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 #YouKnowYourFavoriteTeamIsInARebuildWhen there is a 9 page thread dedicated to Adam f***ing Engel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) It’s hard to imagine anybody being worse than Engel but Tilson might just be that guy. Edited May 21, 2018 by Jerksticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Sad state of affairs for the White Sox upper minors CF depth. Wish Cordell wasn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Yep, you have to go to Hi-A for a CFer above .610 ops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Between Robert, Rutherford, Basabe, Booker and Gonzales I'm confident that CF will not be a problem, when this team is ready to contend. If the Sox draft Madrigal, either he, or Anderson, might also be added to the list of candidates. Patience, Sox fans!! Oh, and I left off Tilson, though I'm not very hopeful that he will be the answer. it would be interesting to know who most of you think will be the center fielder, in 2020. Ultimately, it is likely to be Robert, but 2020 might be a year too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Don't forget the opening month designated hitter, Cody Asche and his .105 batting average and .353 OPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Don't forget the opening month designated hitter, Cody Asche and his .105 batting average and .353 OPS. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: ? i.e. there have been worse hitters, including those at premium offensive positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, GreenSox said: i.e. there have been worse hitters, including those at premium offensive positions. I mean, yea, but in context of this conversation it’s strange to be like “yea well what about Cody Asche” when we are all talking about trying to replace the centerfielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 We need to restore Asche, Adam Engel as “The Batboy” and Jacob May to the SoxTalk Banner until we are no longer the worst team in the majors (well, technically it’s the Royals, but we still have the lowest winning percentage)...also, can probably throw Trayce Thompson onto Mount Soxmore to give you four illustrious personages to carve into the mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I will remember the 2010s for how the white sox would end up in these positions where the only replacements they had for historically bad offensive players was somehow worse offensive players. Our success will be defined by when we need to replace a player for injury plugging in a decent player behind and not players that make 2011 Adam Dunn look decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, bmags said: I will remember the 2010s for how the white sox would end up in these positions where the only replacements they had for historically bad offensive players was somehow worse offensive players. Our success will be defined by when we need to replace a player for injury plugging in a decent player behind and not players that make 2011 Adam Dunn look decent. The thing is we have had a pretty awful run of injuries to get here, starting with Charlie Tilson basically missing a year plus of baseball. Then this year our starting RF and LF are missing extended periods at the same time, as is our plan B CF in Ryan Cordell. Most teams would struggle with fielding quality in the OF if you knocked out 3 or 4 of their top 7 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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