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YourWhatHurts

You have to start McCann for now

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This team is in the heart of a competitive window. It is my opinion that  there would be a lot more catching gaffes like last night if you run out  Grandai to catch about 120 games and Collins ( a potential defensive liability) to catch 40.  It is not that easy to replace proven major league talent like McCann.

Prospects like Burgur and Vaughn are just that...prospects. You can speculate all day about them and pencil their names into future lineups. but that doesn't always work out.

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Just now, tray said:

This team is in the heart of a competitive window. It is my opinion that  there would be a lot more catching gaffes like last night if you run out  Grandai to catch about 120 games and Collins ( a potential defensive liability) to catch 40.  It is not that easy to replace proven major league talent like McCann.

Prospects like Burgur and Vaughn are just that...prospects. You can speculate all day about them and pencil their names into future lineups. but that doesn't always work out.

This team is a contender because the super prospects came up. Vaughn is a super prospect, end of story.  Also, I think the Sox go outside the organization for a back-up catcher 

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Vaughn is a super prospect, end of story.

He has not proven that he can play any position at a major league level.  He is a tank.

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Yeah, if the sox don't trust collins they can always get a bad hitting good glove guy cheaply on the market. For 40 games a bad stick in the lineup is not that terrible.

I rather have Vaughn for 140 games in the lineup than mccann for 40-50.

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1 minute ago, tray said:

Vaughn is a super prospect, end of story.

He has not proven that he can play any position at a major league level.  He is a tank.

So he throws one ball away in Summer Camp and you come to the conclusion he is bad defensively?  I guess based off Summer Camp, Cease is now an ace.

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Fans like to fall in love (figuratively) with prospects but after they actually see them at the major league level, they are often disappointed. Speculation often leads to disappointment. Burgur, Fulmer, Courtney Hawkins, Gordon Beckham.. They are all sure things until they aren't.

 

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Courtney Hawkins has zero to do with Andrew Vaughn.  Listing historical prospects doesn't change the hot take that Andrew Vaughn isn't a major league ready hitter.

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Literally at first glance thought the title of this thread said "McCann vs Grandal-Who would you do?"

🤣🤣🤣

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Yasmani Grandal is a really good player.  Yes, he had a really bad game last night defensively.  Yes, he will be fine.  No, James McCann isn't going to sign a long term contract here.  Yes, Grandal is going to be the far superior player the next 3 years.  

/thread  

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46 minutes ago, tray said:

This team is in the heart of a competitive window. It is my opinion that  there would be a lot more catching gaffes like last night if you run out  Grandai to catch about 120 games and Collins ( a potential defensive liability) to catch 40.  It is not that easy to replace proven major league talent like McCann.

Prospects like Burgur and Vaughn are just that...prospects. You can speculate all day about them and pencil their names into future lineups. but that doesn't always work out.

I would have to disagree. The competitive window is just opening. If they had actually made a big splash in the FA pitching market last off-season, then maybe the conversation is different. If they're rolling out Giolito/Keuchel/Wheeler then I think I would be there with you. But. if this is the heart of our competitive window and we're running Lopez/Cease and a total noob like Dunning out there every fifth day, then things aren't as rosy as they first appear. 

There are no certainties. Prospects bust ... but so do trade acquisitions/FAs ...etc. You could trade Vaughn for 2-3 years of a TOR starter who could get hurt on day 1.

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Take away and his final 2 innings last night and Grandal was a damn hero. Relax. For the most part the entire team stunk last night. Sometimes you lose in rough fashion to a bad team. Move on

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6 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Take away and his final 2 innings last night and Grandal was a damn hero. Relax. For the most part the entire team stunk last night. Sometimes you lose in rough fashion to a bad team. Move on

Yeah, I find it interesting that he's the primary scapegoat despite his two-run homer. Obviously he needed to catch that ball but it was just one of those games- Anderson got picked off, Madrigal got thrown out twice, Abreu made a dumb mistake, the list goes on. Not sure why Grandal is the only one getting a thread after it, especially when he has been playing so well lately

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What's done is done. Grandal is the guy going forward. What this team needs to worry about is pitching. we will need a TOR starter and some bullpen help before we can think about going far in any future playoffs.

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How many threads do we need to get it through your heads that Grandal is staying, McCann is leaving and thats just the way it is? Get over it, move on, come to terms with it, whatever you need to do. But please can those of you still in denial stop creating new threads about this?

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38 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Yeah, I find it interesting that he's the primary scapegoat despite his two-run homer. Obviously he needed to catch that ball but it was just one of those games- Anderson got picked off, Madrigal got thrown out twice, Abreu made a dumb mistake, the list goes on. Not sure why Grandal is the only one getting a thread after it, especially when he has been playing so well lately

Because there are a lot of meatball fans who (wrongly) think James McCann is a better option and feel the need to pile on Grandal, despite him quite literally being a very very good player since like a week into the season.  

Yesterday was a rough defensive game for him though, and I will agree that his defense a whole has been a little worse than expected.  But I think he'll be fine, and still believe he's a phenomenal fit on this roster.    

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The hate for Grandal here is questioning to me.  Yes, he's going to have his back lack of focus games, but he provides so much unappreciated value to a team.  Pitch framing, working counts, defensively (98% of the time, with those 2% lack of focus moments) and hit for decent pop.  He's still a Top 4 C in the league and you're paying him as such.  We haven't had a catcher as solid as Grandal since AJP and people are still wanting him out.  He is what he is, but he provides the unsexy value a team appreciates, which obviously the Sox do.  Without Grandal, where would we be?  3rd place? Most likely.

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3 minutes ago, Soxnfins said:

The hate for Grandal here is questioning to me.  Yes, he's going to have his back lack of focus games, but he provides so much unappreciated value to a team.  Pitch framing, working counts, defensively (98% of the time, with those 2% lack of focus moments) and hit for decent pop.  He's still a Top 4 C in the league and you're paying him as such.  We haven't had a catcher as solid as Grandal since AJP and people are still wanting him out.  He is what he is, but he provides the unsexy value a team appreciates, which obviously the Sox do.  Without Grandal, where would we be?  3rd place? Most likely.

Grandal actually leads in DRS pitch framing this year at +4 and is top 5 in FanGraphs catcher framing. His offensive numbers have pretty much caught up to McCann's. Yeah he sucks on defense sometimes, but you've committed to him and he brings a lot of value in areas this team lacks in quite a bit (patience for one). 

Does anyone know if McCann can qualify for a QO this off-season? 

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9 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Grandal actually leads in DRS pitch framing this year at +4 and is top 5 in FanGraphs catcher framing. His offensive numbers have pretty much caught up to McCann's. Yeah he sucks on defense sometimes, but you've committed to him and he brings a lot of value in areas this team lacks in quite a bit (patience for one). 

Does anyone know if McCann can qualify for a QO this off-season? 

Yes, the White Sox could offer McCann a QO this offseason, that would be the equivalent of offering him a 1 year contract worth over $18 million. There is a decent chance he would accept that, particularly given the COVID mess destroying the revenues for so many teams, at which point the White Sox would have what, $35 million tied up in their catcher's spot next year?

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, the White Sox could offer McCann a QO this offseason, that would be the equivalent of offering him a 1 year contract worth over $18 million. There is a decent chance he would accept that, particularly given the COVID mess destroying the revenues for so many teams, at which point the White Sox would have what, $35 million tied up in their catcher's spot next year?

Yeah it's risky due to COVID. But if his market is really 3 years and $40 million with someone else, maybe it's worth offering to get a draft pick out of it. 

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4 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Yeah it's risky due to COVID. But if his market is really 3 years and $40 million with someone else, maybe it's worth offering to get a draft pick out of it. 

If the deadlines are as normal, my prediction is still that most of the free agent market is going to take until January or February to develop, if it develops at all. If there are multiple vaccine setbacks that even just delay things by a month or two, baseball could be looking at no fans or drastic fan limits to start the year and little to no new information by Feb. 1. Even if things go well, a lot of guys will be sitting there until February not knowing if they're even going to get minimal contract offers next year.

If McCann doesn't get a 3/$40 offer immediately, like by Thanksgiving, and he gets a QO, he'd have to be crazy to pass that up with where we are now.

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1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

Jesus. The McCann superfans on this site are the worst.

Kudos to you for being able to tell the difference between McCann superfans and *insert White Sox player name* superfans.  

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29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, the White Sox could offer McCann a QO this offseason, that would be the equivalent of offering him a 1 year contract worth over $18 million. There is a decent chance he would accept that, particularly given the COVID mess destroying the revenues for so many teams, at which point the White Sox would have what, $35 million tied up in their catcher's spot next year?

The Sox' 2020 adjusted payroll is $50M. The jury is out on whether fans (full/partial) will be allowed to attend games in 2021. The chance McCann gets a contract with $ above his current deal is minimal, whether here or elsewhere, even if fans are allowed to attend next season. The chance he gets $18M anywhere including here is zero.

Owners were contracting free agent spending in a record growth economy, most will reduce spending even if revenues recover simply to keep the profit they didn't earn this year. 

Edited by South Side Hit Men

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1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

Jesus. The McCann superfans on this site are the worst.

Wrong. Abreu superfans are worse.

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