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FU Jerry.

We are 11 games into a 162 game season. My sincere advice to boarders who are (understandably) extraordinarily frustrated is to not get wedded to a doom and gloom board persona wherein you are rationalizing your position that everything sucks for the remainder of this season. They might break out versus the Yanks this weekend. They might next week. Let's all just relax and let it happn. Certainly, at some point, they're going to go through a stretch where they play much much better baseball than this. There's no pressure on this team from a record standpoint - so who cares how many wins and losses we have? Silver linings are in a bunch of places - Gio's first start Rodon's first AND second start Moncada/Eloy/Anderson's great starts Even identifying things like "Palka is a sure fire NON major leaguer" is way better than him dabbling with 20 home runs and a 0.8 WAR to have him hang around. Same goes for a player like Yolmer. The sooner we move on from placeholders, the better place we will be in medium term. I'm gonna give it 30 games. I suggest everyone think about doing the same.

All of Giolito's pitches are at LEAST 55 grade. Giolito's issue is repeating his mechanics. If he figures out how to do that, he's going to be at least a #2 depending on how well he can command the zone. His fastball is a 55 and all 3 of his offspeeds are 60s. That is a HOF arsenal if he knew where the ball was going.

Re: the financials: It's far more complicated than you're presenting and I get that as you may not have the understanding necessary. Knowing how much ISFA paid for the Sox deal is only one piece of the puzzle. In order to answer Fan O'Faust's question, you would need much more detail. As his question was about the White Sox operating results (not the ISFA financials that you're clinging to in hopes of salvaging your initial inaccurate comment), that additional detail needed would have to come from the Sox. Further than that, assessing what the Sox would be paying in a market scenario would be a daunting task in itself. His question is only answered if the cost of the alternative is understood. Butt since you're going to get personal I'll bow out since we both know how you play with the rules. I am not sure of the relevance here. Enron was a fraud based upon bogus special purposes entities, recognizing profits before they'd been realized and conflict of interest creating Independence issues between the executive team and the public accounting firm. The White Sox took advantage of corrupt political environment. Also, Enron was a public entity so their financials and operating results are readily accessible to anyone whereas the White Sox are a private institution. Furthermore, Enron's execs were creating dubious financials to pump the publicly traded stock. Publicly traded stocks created hundreds of thousands of shareholders that the executives screwed over. Where the Sox are only beholden to only their private group of ownership and their creditor(s) (if any). Sometimes it's a lot easier to just admit you're wrong on the first point you made rather than moving goal posts to open up another can of worms that you can't intelligibly speak to. I should say though, congrats on your recent SoxTalk anniversary. 16 whole years of making 26 posts a day. That's quite an accomplishment.

Yes, if this deal turns out well he gets credit for it. What is done with that deal? Can we build a team around that deal? If not, can we trade him for something useful before he hits free agency? What is the return on that deal like? Those questions...sound suspiciously like a repeat of what happened over the last few years with 3 other players.

Does Shields have a brother? If so, the Padres should sign him quickly.

Make sure the zoom works. (sorry I couldn't resist).

It was nice to hear Mully and Haugh mention this news on The Score this morning and immediately rip the Sox for not spending like a team that has large profits.

Em, no. This is NOT the 2013/2014 Cubs. The 2013/2014 Cubs were owned by Tom Ricketts with a one/two punch of Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer making things happen in the front office, on their way to four consecutive playoff appearances, including a World Series title. All of that in just seven years on the job. Meanwhile, our Sox, conversely, are owned by Jerry Reinsdorf and backed by the front office dynamic duo of Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn. Heading into their 19th year together now as the 1-2-3 brain trust atop the organization, they have all of two postseason appearances to speak of during the nearly two decades, and none at all in over a decade now. Surely you can see the competency gap between the two organizations.

The weather excuse is so lame. It apparently isn’t affecting the Sox opponent.

“When should we start to worry about Robert’s lack of power?” ?

Damn, I miss Rose

One of my quotes (of many) since I was very adamant at how foolish it was to trade Tatis (at the time). They can't just sign a million of them. They have a limited pool and limited resources in these areas and a farm system that has lacked. What I'm saying is you can't write this guy off because he is so young that he's more likely to bust. Initial reports have been very encouraging and he's the type of kid who has the talent to emerge as one of the better prospects in the system with time. This could be an impact player. Yes, I said could, but when you are trading a guy who could be that for a guy who another team had to eat half his contract and is only slightly better (at his current clip) than your other options at the respective position (while actually still costing a decent amount of financial flexibility), I say that you shouldn't give up that type of piece for said player.

https://twitter.com/patrickhoward50/status/1116471667914616833?s=21 So this just happened to me at the Dash game. Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal!

I'd be okay with cleaning house secretly too

The Sox have scored the following number of runs, in each of their games, so far: 3, 6, 6, 3, 8, 8, 2, 5, 1, 5, 1 That's 6 of 11 games in which they have scored 5 runs, or more. They could at least be around .500, with decent pitching. From that perspective, it doesn't look quite so bad. However, they need to address the pitching, or this season could be another "tank". With both Dunning and Kopech out for the year, and Cease not likely to be called up, until late in the season, if at all, I really think that they need to add another veteran, on a one year deal. Their plan was to have a couple of veterans, in the starting rotation, and that makes sense. However, do we really have any confidence that Santana, or maybe even Nova are going to be serviceable? Santana had nothing in his first start, no velocity and no movement. It was like he was throwing batting practice. The more that I think about it, the more that I like the idea of signing Keuchel. Again, let both Santana and Nova battle for one spot, with the loser becoming the long man, out of the pen. Banuelos becomes a LOOGY and potentially someone who could pitch to both RH and LH hitters, in relief. Insert Keuchel into the rotation, take the pressure off of Giolito and Lopez, and things just might stabilize. Management has plenty of payroll flexibility and Keuchel has already expressed a willingness to take a one year deal. There is no one on the farm, who is ready to assume a spot in the rotation. Sign him, and trade him to a contender, at the deadline. That timing might coincide with Cease's call up. Why not? .

It is even easier to delete posts.

So no one is to take what happens in the first 11 games of the season as meaningful unless it fits the narrative that the rebuild is going smoothly? Anderson made strides last year in the field without a doubt. His hitting, after a decent start, fell back to previous norms. We will see what happens. I do know he will not hit .500. Hopefully he will improve to the point where he really is a guy we want at SS for a good team.

The vast majority of this board thought the White Sox would be pretty decent by 2019, maybe even contention if you go back to when the big trades started happening. Michael Kopech being hurt shouldn't be the difference between being a halfway decent team or even a contending team, and one of the worst teams in baseball unless he is the most valuable pitcher of all time. Fangraphs had his ceiling as a #3 starter. There is something wrong. It needs to be fixed as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the White Sox have the people who can't see problems in charge of finding and correcting them. You shouldn't be this far along and be saying, but we have this guy in A ball..............

We're 30th out of 30 franchises in wins since Hahn took over, so literally you couldn't do worse.

I’ll be at the Winston-Salem game tonight. Will try to get video of Robert and Madrigal at-bats.

Firing someone would be an admission of being wrong, something that takes the White Sox making a colossal blunder to ever admit . I have no doubt JR, KW and RH will pop off 9 or 10 years from now to point out how correct they were if Machado isn't still a big time player. I know a lot of posters are sick of the Machado talk, but what a blunder. Not only does he immediately increase your talent level, it's a boost to everyone else on the roster who now knows the White Sox truly believe in them. A large part of the game is mental, and cheaping out on a big time player IMO may have taken the wind out of several other players' sails.

The team should be a revolving door of guys over 26 on the fringe. Palka stinks send him down for Cordell who has some ,some speed, and can field his position. Palka can do one thing and that's hit HR's. If he isn't doing that get you swing back together in AAA.

The only people getting fired are any remaining media members that cover the Sox

Whether some of us agree, or not, ownership and management are not going to over react to the first to weeks of the season, played in miserable weather. They will stay the course, and make minor adjustments. I'm sure that they are encouraged by what they see from their young core. They have to be happy with the starts for Anderson, Moncada and even Eloy. Minor Leaguers Collins and Robert also have to reassure them that the rebuild is progressing, and everyone has to love Cease's first start, last night. Rebuilds take time and require lots of patience. Let's see how Giolito and Lopez look, after a couple more starts, hopefully in some decent baseball weather.

Jerry Reinsdorf has been in charge of this team since 1981. 37+ years. They have 5 post season appearances in those 37 years. That sucks

But just remember 9 years from now, they might be in financial turmoil!

Too early? IDGAF

I've always heard that the rule is that as long as any part of the fielder's body is in the field of play when the catch is made, it counts. That's how we got this:

They are decent, but can't stay healthy. Building an NBA team that makes the playoffs, ie being .500, isn't THAT difficult. The Bulls will get a decent draft pick, sign some second or third tier free agent, similar in effectiveness to a Jabari Parker, and talk playoffs. The free agent either will not fit in or get hurt. The draft pick will play decently but not outstanding, and everyone will continue to get injured, and they will miss the playoffs again and be in NBA hell. You can see it coming from 1000 miles away. The Athletic had a player poll. One out of 3 players polled said the coach they would not want to play for happens to be the Bulls coach who GarPax are very happy with. They are never wrong, like the Sox brass, everyone else is, results be damned. They both are similar, and they both shouldn't be employed by professional sports franchises.

Yesterday I said I would actually count up the WAR and $ and see the totals. So interestingly enough this pretty much all depends on whether you would consider Jose Abreu a "FA" signing. I did in this, but it's controversial because I think he should be more included as an international free agent. So, WITH ABREU Total Players (not including 2019 due to WAR): 43 Total Dollars: $254 million Total bWAR: 26.9 $/WAR: $9.5 million WITHOUT abreu Total Players: 42 Total Dollars: 177 million Total bWAR: 8.2 $/WAR: 21.6 million Best non abreu signing? I think it's likely Swarzak, who produced 1.9 WAR on 900k Zach Putnam also produced 3.1 WAR on total 862k over several years Melky and David robertson come in right around 9 million per WAR, so not terrible. Total negative WAR players? 50%

Exactly. The White Sox have been irrelevant for 10+ years now. They embarked on a rebuild that the fans bought into, because their old ways of doing business was piss poor and led to crappy records and uninspiring on-field performances. They set themselves up perfectly for this 2019 offseason to connect on a generational talent to expedite this rebuild, and got bogged down by $50 million. Pathetic. The dagger in all of this is that they probably were being ridiculously presumptuous in believing guys like Bogaerts or Arenado would be there the next winter.... NOPE! I've already heard Hahn mention, "When the time comes, we will eventually start looking to trade some of our prospect depth to acquire outside talent". Welp, so much for prospect depth and development. Due to their shortcomings, the White Sox will go back to their old ways of doing business. Not good! White Sox fans deserve better. JR is out of touch with the reality of modern baseball an KW and Hahn are bad at their jobs. For every good move they make, and there has been a few, they probably have made 2-3 bad moves. Not a good ratio if you ask me.

JR always responded to my letters over the years. He didn't respond to the letter I wrote him requesting to be interviewed for the White Sox GM job. He made a mistake in not interviewing me. The White Sox would be a better team today if I was the GM. I thought that I was the perfect fit for the job. I like to think I know more about baseball than Hahn and I wouldn't have to be paid to much. I don't need the money. Everybody would have been better off if I was the GM.

No one will be fired. But if they are the next yes-man in line will just be moved up the chain, so no real change either way. The similarities between this team and the Bulls are striking, and there's one common denominator.

Spot on. It's a rebuild, I get it. But when it comes to talent allocation in the front office, dugout, or on the field this organization acts like they either don't care or are just totally Incompetent. And I'm beginning to worry that it's actually both.

So the Sox should avoid signing players because they will remind people of other players? Seems snowflakey to me.

And 5 inning guys that are actually effective would be perfectly acceptable to teams playing in 2019 and not 1990 like ours.

LMAO. Might as well post the 2021 Draft Thread soon too.

I really have to wonder what motivated this move. This just re-opens the Shields trade wound, and moreover it will be a constant reminder for the duration of Elijah's stay in the Sox organization. Every day any Sox fan looks at the minor league box scores it will be there writ large … a constant reminder of "The Trade". If I were KenHahn, unless I thought this kid is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole. This either took the biggest stones in the world to do the right thing in the face of certain criticism and embarrassment, or it is the troll-job of the decade. Too close to call really ...

Especially since days prior were nice and the Sox still sucked.

Reinsdorf is not a sportsman. He's a businessman who has figured out a way to be profitable without being competitive - to the absolute delight of his investors. His shtick is the circus of sports. Tasty but colon-clogging food; fireworks, give-a-ways, helium-filled Bennie the Bulls, Kids dancing to YMCA ..all to distract from why most folks go to a sports event - to see talented athletes play the game. He's P.T Barnum 2.0 and he's master at it. Kenny-Hahn and Gar-Pax have jobs as long as they continue to do his bidding.

They're not even worse than the Marlins yet alone the O's.

I literally don't think there is anything (short of a scandal) Hahn or KW could do to get fired. Their on field results are completely indefensible. They are employed because Jerry likes them. That's it.

Hopefully it is everyone. Baseball Ops overhaul.

Nothing will happen. It’s a Reinsdorf-owned team. Everyone involved has jobs for life.

How dare you. Hahn spent $45 million this past offseason bringing in some amazing talent.

It's just a ploy to help sign his brother when he hits free agency.

Ha! Great catch.

Jon Jay is fine for this roster and team, we need a 4th OF. Alonso on the other hand has no reason to really be on this roster.