Leaderboard

was hoping this would be about hats and bobble heads.

So Bryce Bush hasn't struck out in 4 straight games now.

Why waste the service time? I would've waited until the June after next

Why be happy when we can b****, right? Honestly, if anyone under 1000 posts brings up Tatis off topic, they should instantly be banned. The Astros passed on Kris Bryant and they're fine. Everyone needs to move the hell on.

I am getting ready to head on a nice 1 week vacation for America Day, and I read some viewpoints I'd love to discuss further but the thread was locked. Let's try to keep this cordial and hopefully people won't take differing thoughts and opinions personal. This was a response that was reiterated in regards to Robert: "Don't even bother, you'll never convince him that rushing Robert to the big leagues due to lack of patience is pure stupidity." I am genuinely curious... what is "pure stupidity" about bringing up a guy on pace to go 30/50 with a 1000 ops at AA as one of the youngest guys in the league? Do you have any data driving this opinion that he would be "rushed" and that it would harm his development? Because, to the contrary, what we have discovered over the past few years as that age of performance vs average age of the league is a much stronger indicator of a players readiness for the MLB level than total at bats; look no further than baseball's evolving trend of calling guys up younger; look no further than Chris Paddack and Fernando Tatis Jr. There is something to be said about a team bringing up their best players. The discussion I'd love laid out is as follows: When is a player ready and when should he be called up? My opinion is as follows: If you are better than players on the MLB roster currently, and you have greatly outperformed your elder peers at your current level, you are ready for the challenge that is MLB baseball. Look no further than Yoan Moncada for a basis of this... Yoan's development had to take place at the big league level because he was not being physically challenged in the minor leagues and could succeed despite his deficiencies. This is where Robert is to me; he's ready, as is clear by the fact that he's the best player in the minor leagues this year, and the only development he has left is MLB adjustments. Learning how to hit AAAA pitching in run scoring environment that is AAA at this moment is not beneficial to Robert. He needs to see big league arms that can locate their off-speed stuff into the zone he is susceptible. That is the only way he'll ever change. I am genuinely curious as to what is "pure stupidity" about bringing up a player who has outperformed all his minor league peers despite being only 21 years old? Anyone who starts by citing an extra year of control is using an excuse that goes against the MLB rules and regulations and is not fair to the players. Also, the extra year of control when someone have already been brought up is just pointless. Robert needs to be more ready next year than he is this year; the only way that happens is if he plays big league baseball this year. Great athletes sometime age worse than their non-athletic peers in baseball; see BJ Upton as a great example. You should be getting everything out of Robert while he's in his physical peak; that is today. Even if he struggles can anyone really argue against either of the following points? 1. Robert would be our best CF'er today on this team as it is currently constructed. Robert would also be our best RF'er today on this team as it is currently constructed. 2. Robert is much more talented than the people he is playing against. 3. Robert is learning nothing at a level in which he is superior, talent wise, when compared to everyone else. And contrary to the point stated by ChiSox, I love to read information that goes against my predisposed beliefs. If you can present a valid case that doesn't focus on service time manipulation, what is it? I'm all ears. How would putting Robert at the one level that would test and advance his growth hamper him? Thanks, and have a great 4th of July holiday!

If you have been reading on this board, you have learned some interesting things about WAR or fwar. Is there a difference between the two? I really have no idea. Some of things quoted on here about war or fwar (again, don't know if one is the same as other one or if there's a difference - and don't tell me; I don't care.) According to WAR: the 2005 World Series Sox every day players were all average or so, and Sox only won that series by pitching. Really, really hard for me to believe, but a weak case could be made for that one. Regardless of home runs and RBIs (and now all-star selection AGAIN), Abreu is a below average 1st baseman. Sorry, can't start to believe that one. And here's the killer and it was on some thread last week or so: Kelvin Herrera has a better WAR than Colome and therefore he is the better pitcher and has done more to help the Sox this year. Honest. Who else remembers that thread? So I got new for all the advanced stat people; I'm gonna pretty much ignore WAR claims and just stick with home runs, RBIs, ERA, saves and stuff like that. Call me crazy.

Jake Burger says "hello," from the comfort of his couch, while shoveling Domino's pizza down his piehole.

Madrigal and Vaughan are the two post tank picks...I'm excited about both.

Many can't fail prospects have failed. I'm going to be optimistic and believe he's going to have a great career. Financially he will eventually become a free agent and sign a huge ass contract with someone else and be set for life. So do I want him playing a season now on a sub .500 team or later on a team that might be good? It seems like such an easy answer I'm surprised it's even being debated.

People were saying that about the 2020 class as well... then everybody signed an extension. It is a really bad idea to save for next year.

What's the best cheese for a burger? It's swiss right? That's the status of this guy's body.

What has been explained? My apologies, but someone stating something as a fact with zero supporting evidence is not sufficient evidence for me. I am an analytically driven person that makes decisions based on evidence and not hunches or arbitrary cutoffs that have very little barring on potential outcomes. I have asked you, what does Robert need to work on, and why does AA allow him to do that more effectively than MLB? Once again you are citing service time manipulation which would infer you believe he's ready but he's being held back solely for reasons that go against the CBA. I'm not good with that. I also am uncertain why you act like he would not be on the White Sox at 28 if he comes up today. He would be up for his age 28 season. He may not be here for his age 29 season, but if he's great the Sox should be resigning him anyway. Impatience implies that Robert is not ready for the challenge and is being rushed for reasons unrelated to his development. I believe the entire focus of calling up Robert is to continue his development better than he is developing at AA. If you are arguing he needs to work on his K/BB rates; he will NOT do that at AA as he has absolutely zero reason to change his approach because he is absolutely dominating. Baseball changes frequently happen when you struggle not when you're better than everyone else. Robert is one of the most exciting and talented players in the entire Baseball Universe not just in the MILB but in all of professional baseball. I'm a fan and I want to see the best players now that the rebuild is in it's secondary stages. This isn't the beginning; we have players 2 years ahead of him in terms of team control. Let's get him up here and develop him alongside his future teammates.

I don't think any of us thought that 18 year old Mike Trout would become the best all around CF since Mickey Mantle.

And I don't see how a few extra at-bats at AAA is going to make him suddenly not over matched. He's almost certainly going to struggle some out the gate no matter when he comes up. I'd rather get that out of the way now, and have an entire off season to attack the weaknesses the majors exposes that never will show their face in the minors. It's entirely possible that they see some adjustment they still need to see him make, that's fine, but if not all were doing is stalling development for some nebulous idea of sustained success.

Lol - these dudes are dead!!!! Jake Burger toe his fucking Achilles. Get a grip, dude.

I've said this before, but arguing whether or not he actually is ready is pointless. If he's ready today, it doesn't help anyone to hold him down. He should be up today. If there's still something you want to see from him and it takes until the end of august to see it, probably just leave him down until next year.

They have 5 more top 50 prospects, including one Top 5 prospect. They might not all hit, but the core isn't just 4 people. Saying it is is being disingenuous.

Well considering the Red Sox have a 3B having a better year not in the All-Star game, as well as the single biggest all-star snub, I'm going to have to disagree with this. Third base is stacked, it is what it is. We might have the least deserving player in the game, it's hard to complain about representation when that is the case.

No one is “living in the past” when discussing the Tatis Jr. trade. It only happened three short years ago, and was conducted by the very front office still in charge of things today. It’s still very much a relevant topic, particularly given Tatis Jr.’s early success at the big league level. How about less on poster attacking and more on actual useful contribution to matters involving the White Sox coming out of your corner.

It happened. It sucked. We just all have to move on, collectively. Everything changes if we keep him. The trades, draft picks, etc.

This is what Cooper teaches, sacrificing velocity for movement. However, much of this board pretty much wants him gone.

Players like Encarnacion and Cruz prove that guys can still hit, in their late 30's, if they can stay healthy. It isn't the age itself, it's obviously the way age increases one's vulnerability to injury. Miguel Cabrera would still be doing the same, if he had been able to stay healthy. He always seemed like a guy who didn't take very good care of himself. It's a good thing that Abreu has tried to get in better shape. He looks more fit now, than he did about 3 years ago. My point is that at 32, Jose should not be considered "done".

Burger is one of the reasons I dismiss the MLB draft ... total crapshoot.

I would 100% rather see Mercedes instead of Palka and then send wellington to the moon

Anyway, don't everybody let my opinion on Abreu ruin things for you. Most people like him here. He's hit plenty of homers and he earned a reserve spot on the allstar team. I'm happy for him and that the White Sox have 3 allstars. Hats off to you, Mr. Abreu

It was a contingent of posters that post nothing but negativity in general, who don't like his profile.

That’s pretty funny but he has stepped up on his nutrition- or at least he talked about that earlier this year. But yeah, he’s eating kale and playing fortnite.

MLB already moved Waters up to #44 on their Top 100 list because of how he is performing in AA. http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019 I’d love to get Waters but if he isn’t realistic, I would also love Dylan Carlson (#88) from the Cardinals.

The people that crucified Eloy for chasing sliders away are going to absolutely go insane when Robert is called up.

Nothing will ever top some dude very audibly yelling JOHN COUGAR MELLONHEAD at Brett Gardener on TV. It still makes me giggle. https://mobile.twitter.com/backaftathis/status/1027032949252927490?lang=en

Lol...that’s basically the same as this year’s payroll, maybe even less. Plus it would be a bottom five payroll for a team with a lengthy history of at least being middle of pack when going for it. No rational person would actually believe this, but obviously you’re just letting your pessimism get the best of you as usual.

Is there any data to suggest this is true?

I wonder...if a player had a drug problem, would they be tested frequently enough for that to be caught before it spiraled out of control?

I am a chedddddaaaa guy, myself.

Yaz

Dude nobody hates Abreu (okay one person hates Abreu), some of us are just cautious of using long-term resources on him.

I am not making that determination based on his 20 plate appearances with the Red Sox in 16.

If Robert was called up today and remained in the big leagues, he would accrue over 6.0 years of service time in 2025, and would be a free agent in 2026. He would play the majority of the 2025 season at age 27, turning 28 in August. His first year under his free agent contract (if not extended before then) would be played at age 28, turning 29 in August. And I don't know what to tell you about the service time thing. Basically all teams do it. The Twins demoted Byron fucking Buxton last year with over 1,000 major league plate appearances in order to get an extra year of control. Until the rules are changed with the next CBA, teams will continue to take advantage of the rules. You don't have to "be good with it", but it is what it is.

I think they are being overly conservative right now. Moncada and Robert are Similar players and it took Moncada 1.5 seasons to get his shit together. If you call up Robert now he's ready to rock by 2021. I am concerned that they will waste part of their window by delaying promotions too long. We need as many of these guys performing at as high of a level as possible simultaneously

The excuse used for Eloy - which was also complete BS - was that he needed to work on his defense. At least Eloy had a legit deficiency in his game though - he isn't a good fielder. I'd argue he never will be and nothing has changed from last year to his call-up this year, but Robert is quite literally a 5 tool talent showing all of those talents at a very high level.

Whatever. I meant that should he get injured and flame out he will be fine and probably make tons of money through personal connections. The entire world is a good ole boys club. It's not what you know it's who you blow.

I think it's wrong to make this about 21 vs 28 when it's really whats best for 22-24 vs 28. Not going to pretend that I know what's best.

This is a fairly ignorant take for a number of reasons.

85 million? That would put us in the bottom 5 in all of baseball, lol. If we don't have around 130 million in payroll next year there is something really wrong. Edit: Okay yeah, 85 million would be like 8 million less than we are spending this year. That is in no way realistic.

So it looks like the Sox payroll next year will be around 28 million. I figure they will bring back Jose in a bridge year to Vaughn at like 12 million and won't trade Colome. That brings the payroll to around $40 million next year. How much do you think the Sox payroll will be on Opening Day 2020? I think they add like 45 million AAV next year and will rock a payroll around 85 million total.

Yes. His family is loaded. They've been in the entertainment industry. It isn't like he ever has to worry about money.

*Yoan Moncada thread, which is about a 3B with an .874 OPS and 2.5 fWAR with team control through 2023, casually becomes a Tatis Jr thread because Soxtalk*

Not sure what the hell that has to do with Baez and/or Moncada but good talk

I hope he signs with Baltimore. I don't have much interest in the Sox signing him.