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You're an idiot.

They had one of the lowest walk rates and one of the highest k rates and were bottom 4 or 5 in HR. That's an issue.

Coop is awesome. I hope he stays with it at least one more year.

Amazing that an idiot that constantly waved runners to their demise at home plate keeps his job.

I do love that he wasn’t technically fired, bringing the tally of coaching and management positions who were fired after a lost decade to 0.

Requirements for promotion to the big league team. 1.) Did you play for the whitesox? 2.) Did you coach in the minors for the whitesox? 3.) Have you passed the 15 year mark in the organization?

Think people are overlooking the liability that Grandal is behind the plate. Remember the Dodgers benched him for all of the postseason last year, despite his bat. McCann has righted the Catcher position and w Collins behind him, there just isn't at-bats (esp if they sign a reg DH, like Martinez). Let's spend $$ more at pitcher, RF, & DH. Catcher is fine right now.

Danny DeVito with his thumbs up and girls with giant cans around him. No words.

As the season is about over thanks to everyone for their participation this year. If you have read parts one and two on our year and 40 man, I want to reemphasize a couple things. Our plate discipline was atrocious. We obviously have Robert and Madrigal on the way but a lot of our other prospects are returning from significant injuries. Our pitching staff needs help. RF and DH were league worst. Aside from Robert, our logjam of outfield prospects didn't distinguish themselves and don't look to provide help next year. By WAR, we are 15-20 WAR from contending and frankly some BABIP metrics could portend some regression for Moncada, Anderson, McCann so you might need a bit more. If Moncada could trim another 40-50 ks that cold offset and Anderson might return some walks as I think he is extra aggressive with a batting title on the line. Expectation #1 Abreu is brought back. Betting 2 -3 years. Hopefully year 3 is option. I bet it will be more dollars than we like. Hopefully DH's more. My thoughts. I don't expect us to get Cole. He is a SoCal guy, many teams in the hunt including Angels who I would make the favorite unless the Yankees really want him. He is probably the only free agent I would forfeit the draft pick and its associated pool dollars as I think we need to keep rebuilding. I also don't think we have the prospect depth to make a major acquisition unless it involves taking a bad contract back and using our payroll flexibility as several teams have budget concerns. Unfortunately, I don't see our front office being/allowed to be that creative. Target #1 Grandal. He just makes so much sense for our team. He has stated he wants to set the market for future players so he isn't coming cheap and a lot of teams will want him. His WAR values are very different on Baseball Reference 1.4-3.3 range last few years and FanGraphs 4.1-5.8. He is very consistent, avg about 15% better bat than league average. Solid glove and great plate discipline walking around 10%. Switch hits and has been used all through the Brewers lineup 1-6. Turned down 4 years 60 million last year. I would start with 3-60 with 24-20-16 payout and add in a 16 million fourth year option. He would probably play everyday for us. McCann would also catch and they both would be fresher and hopefully more productive sharing the load. When not catching, Grandal would DH or play some first. If you got him, the RF addition is able to be lower in the lineup and there are not a lot of great FA options out there. Target #2 Brett Gardner. Haven't seen him mentioned but hear me out. First, I hope to have a home grown RF in 2021-22. Hopefully one of ours develops from the multitude of options. The Yankees have a bunch of outfielders, some dollar concerns and I could see Gardner leaving. He is 36 but has been amazingly durable at 140ish games per year. Playing mainly center for Yankees with positive defensive metrics(one of few available with a good glove helping young pitchers). The last 7 years has WAR ranges of 2.8-4.9 and currently at 4.1 this year. A professional with playoff experience who would be useful for our youngsters as another mentor. His home/road splits are equal so not a product of Yankee stadium. Another guy with around a 10% walk rate and strikes out less than 20%. Again that plate discipline would help make pitchers work and hitting left handed balances lineup better. Because of Grandal you could hit him lower in the order. I think a two year deal could get him and don't think it would be super expensive12-15 annually? Plan B Nimmo? Popular pick on board but will cost prospects. Saw a rumor Mets looking for CF. Mets have budget issues. Would/could you take Jed Lowrie at 10 million for one year to lessen your prospect cost? LOL Yolmer and Engel and lesser prospect for Nimmo and Lowrie. Other Plan B's for Gardner all have warts. Calhoun could be let go especially if Angels get Cole. More strikeouts at about 25% and lower average(Dunn light?) but decent glove and walks 10%. Zobrist 39, terrible spring good OBP switch hits. Dickerson 31 good bat but never played RF and has broken foot. Puig no draft pick issue, right handed, pretty consistent , I guess ok. Jay Bruce? older expensive but wouldn't cost much prospect wise. Okay 2019 WAR for our RF and DH is -2.3 so Grandal and Gardner good for 7ish so 9WAR improvement! Fun Fact: Our starting pitchers generated 5.8 WAR. Giolitto has 5.8 WAR. What we have trotted out in the 4/5 slots is truly epic. The rebuild will be over when no one types this is the future: Covey -1.2 ,Detwiler -.5 , Santanna -.3, Banuelos -.4, Santiago -.4, Fulmer -.4 and Despaigne -.3 Totalling -3.5. Cease was -.1 so hopefully if he improves you gain a couple WAR there. Kopech something positive but I wouldn't hand either a automatic job. Could they regain a year of control on Kopech by keeping him down a month out of Chicago cold? I mention this because having reasonable pitchers could gain enough to put you in contention. Our bullpen ranked 6th and Herrera seems to be getting healthy. If he is his normal you could gain 2 WAR. I point all this out because I doubt we sign a big time pitcher to a big time contract. Cole is clearly elite and most of the rest have questions. The history of long term pitching contracts is not great on the team end. I would try to strike quickly before bigger dollar teams who lose out on "name" FA pivot back. A qualifying offer drops my interest and those that have them except Cole may have a slower market. Also starting pitchers are pitching fewer innings all the time. Maybe you should grow and develop pitchers continually and never give the big contract unless they are really special, kind of like running backs in the NFL. Target #3 Jake Odorizzi RHP, 30. Not a huge innings guy 170ish. 3.5 WAR this year but probably a 2 WAR guy. 2-3 years? 12-14? Kick the tires on Kuechel. Bring back Nova? Only six players beat his 2 WAR on this years team. His totals are what we traded for just bad first half colors perception of his season. Target #4 Another starter, possible swing guy or a veteran you could deal if our pitchers are healthy/performing at break. Rodon should return around the break though will he start or relieve? Well there you have it. Not sexy but realistic. Our best chance to have an ace is to develop one. This projects to gain the 15-20 WAR for us to contend. Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to read this and for your involvement throughout the year. Nice to know I don't suffer alone.

Well he's also employed by ESPN so that's why he does a bunch of college hoops and football, but he's currently living his dream job of broadcasting White Sox baseball. I think it's his job for a long while.

This is the equivalent to giving the Sox credit for signing Tatis Jr. If they couldn’t recognize that both Semien and Tatis Jr. were both better talents than the two bum starters they gave them up for, they lose most of the credit because they obviously didn’t acknowledge their superior talent and value.

No one has a madrigal level hit tool. Jesus christ.

How will they trade Myers? Lol

Um.. one guy is out of baseball and the other just had 125rbi 33 hr season.

They drafted him in the 6th round and developed him into an interesting asset and used him in part to acquire a pretty valuable arm.

Yeah why would we want a manger who averages 90+ wins or so since the early 2000's

I look forward to more TA batting 7th. Yolmer playing instead of Madrigal. Moncada bunting. And the other orders of chaos that Ricky and his gut will bring.

We are?

Here's a preliminary plan Odorizzi @ 3/54 Pomeranz @ 2/14 Nova @ 1/9 Smyly MiLB deal Grandal @ 4/80 Abreu @ 2/24 Reynaldo Lopez for Brandon Nimmo Stiever and one of Rutherford/Adolfo/Basabe/Gonzalez for Mychal Givens DFA Yolmer, Tender everyone else C Grandal 1B Abreu 2B Madrigal SS Anderson 3B Moncada LF Jimenez CF Robert RF Nimmo DH Some mix of Grandal/Collins/Abreu Bench - McCann, Collins, Leury, Engel, Mendick SP - Giolito, Cease, Odorizzi, Kopech, Nova (Rodon/Smyly/Dunning/Lambert/depth signings) RP - Bummer, Colome, Herrera, Pomeranz, Givens, two of Hamilton/Burr/Marshall/Cordero/others) Payroll ~120M

Steverson came from outside the organization; that's the one "mistake" that they'll probably make sure that they don't make twice. On a macro level, the White Sox hitting was wanting. But some individual players improved. Adam Engel improved a lot. I'm just not sure how much they can really expect out of Yolmer, Leury, et al, regardless of coach.

Having a high k rate is meaningless if you put the ball out and get on base.

This is like cleaning your house and neglecting to cleanup the pile of puke that greets you from the front door entrance. Great, you cleaned the counters and swept the kitchen, now how about you address the real reason your house smells like vomit? Rickie and Cooper will coach here as long as they want.

Isn't it time we turn to Kevin Seitzer as hitting coach? I wish we'd hire the best manager possible first of all. The Sox need a great manager, folks. The team doesn't spend a lot of $$. I wish they'd spend on a genius manager.

It probably doesn't help when Abreu goes into a prolonged slump, and finally talks to his old Cuban coach, and starts raking. The trend seems to be younger, more analytical. I hope that is the way to go. Home Runs and lower k rates win . Everything but hitting a homer is harder to do offensively in MLB anymore with how pitchers are used. You need to get someone on base and hit one in the seats.

Oh I would take a front office overhaul over any player addition, but absence that I definitely still prefer going after elite talent sooner through trades/free agency. I worry about putting so much emphasis on 2025 if it means 2020-2021 are still only marginally contending years.

I thought everyone was ecstatic about the progress from Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez, McCann, etc.??? I guess they still need someone to fix Collins, because it’s hard to imagine doing much better with the Palka’s, Cordell’s, Tilson’s, Engel’s and Yolmer Sanchez’s of MLB. Not to mention Jay, Alonso and Castillo. I guess they’re going to somehow transform all those guys into high OBP, high walk profiles...will believe they can change those guys when I see it. And they better not remake Moncada into the timid/passive 2018 version again.

The only Calhoun that applies to a conversation about trading with the Rangers lol

That is only a 5 year period. It's not like it is saying 15 wins is the most by a coach since Ditka. Kind of a pointless stat.

It’s time to go for superstars. I cringe every time I read someone suggest Collins for full time DH.

Stop with the trying to improve one position by weakening another one.

The funny thing is, they pretty much are the National League version of the White Sox. A lot of prospects, they sign Machado....both around .500 at the All Star break, both win around 70 games. SD says if it happens again, heads will roll. The White Sox think things couldn't be better aligned.

Thanks, couple thoughts: - I think people have taken the information that the sox front office not being capable of signing high-level free agents due to incompetence/misguided sense of budgeting to actually being the correct thing, when obviously it's very bad. We should not as an org set-up be refusing to go after Betts, few other teams are in as good of a position long term to afford him. - If the sox acquired betts I would expect them to do everything possible to sign him long-term, that it would be the plan. That he would do so and expect at least a Harper contract, or a very player friendly opt-out period - for instance, what if he had an opt-out of 2021...and you get 3 years of betts. Is trading still not worth losing prospects? - I think a player this valuable becoming available is worth acquiring, and if worse case scenario it becomes clear that not only will he test free agency but would not like to sign with sox, they can trade him at the deadline and receive back some value. Push comes to shove, if boston said we'll trade you betts for Cease/Dunning I would do so and commit the organization to try and cobble a pitching staff together brewers/twins style. But, if the separate question is what do I think the white sox front office is capable of? Not much, but as a fan I am looking at a team struggling to develop and draft, and poor at identifying undervalued assets, and am supposed to get pumped about just committing to acquiring depth and letting all of our prospects fuel this entire thing? No thanks. The rebuild should have enabled plays like going after Betts, that it may not is an indictment not on the the idea of acquiring betts, but of this rebuilds shortcomings. And I think acquiring betts and paying him would overcome them.

We have obvious holes to plug at DH, RF and Starters. Don't waste time and money where we have exceptional talent already.

Get a clue and stop trading your International Bonus Pool money and trade up once in a while .

I would like to see Omar and his influence on Timmy.

Could have had better choice of words.

"Ron883 wants to bring Jose Abreu back at any cost!"

I also think if they had signed him or Harper, fan interest would have rapidly picked up. They would have sold more tickets, and more parking spaces, and more beer, and more churros. It might have been short lived, but it would have happened.

Bama Doc deserves credit for a fantastic post.

The cubs weren't a money making machine in the 60s 70s 80s 90s like you think they were. The teams weren't revenue sharing like they do now, it wasn't a blank check just for having a franchise. i know you are done arguing this but goddamn, saying a team that won a World Series and five straight playoff appearances was a failure is just wrong

The silver lining in this whole thing is that if he does get healthy he still has two years in the minors and then slides in as a cheap option. I look at him as an additional first round pick in 2020. Sucks for him and he will be older if he makes it but that is all we can hope for. He was an advanced bat when they drafted him so hopefully he is a quick mover.

I love how Sox fans are so picky about managers when the proposed option is much better than our current joke of a manager. Amazing.

Maddon speaks fluent Spanish. And I don’t know why he wouldn’t fit culturally. He was nails with a young Cubs and young Rays teams. it won’t happen for obvious reasons, and I also doubt he would do it to Ricky again. But he would be a great fit.

I’d take Maddon if he was available. Back when the Sox had Bevington, they went after Jim Leyland when he became a free agent. But he went to Miami in part because of how the Sox treated his buddy Lamont, who was a pretty good manager himself. I am not a Renteria guy, but he is nowhere near the same bad Bevington was. Still, if they have a shot at Maddon, they would be fools not to take it. His act will grow old, but not for a while. He would be a huge upgrade, and show the fan base you finally mean business. But the problem is Joe Maddon doesn’t like his pitchers throwing cutters.Don Cooper would love if every one of his pitchers threw cutters.Something would have to give that JR, RH, and KW won’t let give.

I'd rather have Girardi, but I'd take Maddon in a heartbeat over Renteria or any othe Reinsdorf crony.

Without question I would want Joe. No manager is perfect. He is better than 99% of the alternatives.