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This is a middle schoolers dick joke dream.

Rangers now have signed three players to +$185M contracts in the last ~12 months whereas the Sox have sign zero $75+ contracts in franchise history.

Are you Jerry on a burner account? 2 big free agent splashes in 42 years as owner, and the last one was 26 years ago. And none in this big rebuild contention window, which is pretty much agreed by most to be over the hump on its way down now. We all love our White Sox. But we have a cheapskate owner who has proven that for 4+ decades. It is what it is.

$64 million for Sal Perez IS one of the worst contracts in baseball.

When you act like you have all the answers, but never actually share anything of substance, and 95% of your posts are just stupid condescending one liners, that is what you get. I've yet to see you provide any sort of accurate insight, yet you continue to act like you have some in to the Sox FO. I think you're full of s%*#. It's one thing to be someone like Pal that doesn't really say much other than little vague nuggets, but he doesn't act like a total tool. Then there is you.

Would be amazing to watch salvy turn into a white Sox pumpkin like so many before him lol

I don’t understand what you don’t get here. Jerry refuses to make the long-term commitments it takes to sign true impact talent. Whether he sports a large payroll or not is meaningless when he’s so god damn risk adverse. So even if the $180M payroll estimate is wrong, we won’t be signing someone like Aaron Judge to a record setting contract. Jerry had his chance to prove us all wrong when Machado & Harper were free agents and the typical big threats weren’t in the game. Instead, he lost out to the Padres & Phillies because he was afraid of having some bad payroll nine years in the future when he might not even be alive. That should tell you everything you need to know about Jerry. As for non-stopping bitching, I just posted my off-season plan that assumes a $185M and no star additions. And guess, I projected a 93 win season from that team. Just because we have one of the worst owners in sports and a GM who has yet to prove himself competent in nine years on the job doesn’t mean there isn’t talent on this roster. I want to believe in this group of players, but it’s very hard when you watch the GM make so many baffling moves and the owner insert his out-of-touch, lifeless BFF as manager. We were promised parades and instead have watched this organization quickly botch this window. So yeah, I think it’s pretty fair for Sox fans to be a pessimistic mood right now.

If they have had top 10 payrolls in all those years, then someone in the front office (Hahn or Williams or both) needs sacking because they haven't actually produced top 10 baseball in those years and only appeared in the playoffs briefly in 3 of those years.

Sounds like a great concept. Tell me again how many guys in the White Sox rotation they either drafted or signed internationally? Cause it better be a lot. Houston has like 6 of those guys.

Jake Burger holding down 3b is like Andrew Vaughn holding down RF last year.

Couldn't agree with you anymore than I already do. Look what Harper and Machado did in the playoffs, besides being leaders they performed in the clutch. If you had to name one leader on the Sox it would of been Abreu, however he's more a leader by example, not saying that's bad, but we need a leader that can push the team with words. Not signing Harper or Machado when we had the chance was the turning point in our rebuild. Instead we signed former stars who were past their prime. Keuchel, Kelly, Grandal. Not to mention the scrubs we thru out in the outfield, Eaton, Goodwin, Hamilton, Yermin, Gonzalez, Williams, and of course Leury.

Let's get this thread back on track with some more sandwich talk.

I guess you forgot Kopech had 2 whole years off, so being part of a division champion rotation was pretty absurd. Besides, you just told us the Sox get no credit for Kopech because you don’t think he’s any good. So you are now whining about the Sox not using a pitcher you are whining about in their rotation when they won a division. You must be pretty popular at parties.

Must be nice to have an owner that prioritizes winning. I'd much, much rather "overpay" for a star player in this contention window than whatever the hell Jerry is doing right now.

So first, it is still entirely possible that if Giolito has a better first half, he could be worth more at the trade deadline. Second...if the prices of pitchers are higher than we think, does that not mean the price of replacing him is higher than we think?

Question: Is now the time to trade <insert literally any player's name here>? Answer: If you can get more value back then you're giving up, yes. If not, no.

Thought this was the name of their off season plans.

Why does the fanbase not attend games though? When the Philadelphia Phillies opened their new ballpark, their attendance jumped, but they won high 80s numbers of games the next 3 years. Then, they went on a streak of 5 straight playoff appearances, which basically sold out their stadium every day for years. Their payroll reached the 2nd highest in baseball. Then, they had to rebuild, They dropped to a low of 63 wins, and attendance literally dropped in half. Their payroll dropped to a low below $85 million for a couple years. Then, they signed Bryce Harper as their team improved to .500, and attendance per game shot up by 7000 fans per game, while their record was basically unchanged. Then last year, they spent money again, had a much higher payroll than the White Sox, and made a world series run. What's different from the White Sox? the 5 straight playoff appearances, the willingness to sign a Bryce Harper and immediately get rewarded by ticket sales, and the willingness to go the Dombrowski route to winning that involves understanding some of their signings won't work but if they produce a playoff run - $$$$ Profit. Is there some reason the White Sox cannot do this? Is their market dramatically smaller than that of the Phillies?

The fact of the matter is the White Sox have only the White Sox to blame for their small market status. There are plenty of people, hopefully the next owner, who would have operated the White sox as a large market franchise, and would have been rewarded as their fanbase would have shown up. But they don't show up because the White Sox front office has a history of not showing up. The White Sox idea of "being all in" is signing Adam Dunn.

Salvy's contract is really gross. No thanks.

Didn't read all the posts, but the only speculation regarding Aaron Judge and the Sox that makes sense is speculating on how many homers he hits against them next year so I'm just gonna assume that's what all these posts are about.

If you want optimism, give specifics why based on what’s been happening, optimism is appropriate instead. Gaslighting a loyal fanbase thats been taken advantage of that lets off steam as a result is what’s cringy. Ok I’ll play along. This is fine.

Bryce Harper and Manny Machado were very young free agents (26 if I recall right) due to starting in the show at a young age. Yes that was absolutely the time to sign one of those guys to anchor this rebuild. You wouldn't have just had one of them for 2019. They would have been here in 20, 21, 22, and long after that. And everyone said it at the time - there wont be guys like them to sign in the years after that that were as young talented and there for the taking. They needed to pounce. They declined to make an offer for Harper, and lowballed Machado with an offer they knew he wouldn't accept. Congrats on being the only Sox fan to not understand this!

Wait - in every decade they've had a top payroll once out of those 10 years? Are you even serious here? Do you understand Chicago is a big market? They should have a top 5 payroll more often than not. And they should be in the top 10 every year.

Notice something about all your examples? Maybe it’s not an arbitrary number when your most recent example of a “big contract” is Jerry absorbing Thome’s $45.5M salary in 2006 coming off a bad season. Also, people aren’t being negative about the payroll for no reason. Instead of insulting the entire board, maybe understand the basis of our concerns, which is James Fegan citing from a source ~$180M payroll and Hahn explicitly stating money will be tight. Could it all be bullshit? Sure, but everything during Jerry’s tenure as owner suggests it’s not.

The White Sox are one of only four teams to have never handed out a nine figure deal. The others are the A's, Pirates and Royals. JR isn't going to start now.

Soxtalk has gotten so cringy. Every single post/poster seems to hate everything about the team. There are no optimism threads and any thread of interesting speculation is soon buried under an avalanche of “funny” hate. A troll on Soxtalk is someone that says something positive…but here goes…trolling. As I have pointed out frequently…in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s when Sox were in a competitive window they were top five payroll. JR does not spend heavily in times of non-contention…which as a businessman makes sense. We are now clearly in a window of contention (yes last year was painful…look at Phillies of 2020/21). We spent $215 on payroll last year and top 5 was $240. This idea that we will only spend $180 is pretty much the same nonsense from a couple of years ago when we would never spend over $150. We have Keuchel $18.5 mill and Abreu $17 mill dropping off our books….they could basically take that money and sign Aaron Judge. Despite the reality that we have not signed any big fish it is clear that they were trying to land big fish with serious offers to Machado and Wheeler. Spotrac has us with $145 committed for 2023. So why not Aaron Judge? He’s got a career .980 OPS. He’s been a plus defender for most of his career. He’s an outfielder which is clearly our biggest need. He can even play a serviceable CF in a pinch ( as can Colas). An outfield of Judge/Colas/Robert could be elite offensively and defensively. It’s a single move that can restore faith, sell tickets and give JR a chance for that last ring. We have the budget, he fits a need lets blow up the world.

f*** my life if this comes to existence

Is there a washed up bargain basement player also named Aaron Judge that I’m not aware of?

Rodon to Mets, Verlander to Dodgers IMO

ESPN looking out for the South Siders....a 1st World Series Championship ever for the White Sox would be a big story on the Disney Sports Network.

I'd be willing to consider these ideas for trading people to clear salary if the White Sox had literally anyone worthy of being a big league player to back them up. Same thing with Giolito. You might still even be able to dump a large portion of Moncada's contract, if you wanted. But there's no good reason to do that and then try to trade or sign a FA to fill this spot, that doesn't make you better and it uses up the clearly limited funds we have.

It's like Tony LaRussa holding down the dugout.

Burger and Sheets aren’t the kind of players you open starting jobs for. Both would be massive downgrades on defense, at the least, from Moncada and Vaughn. Neither have the upside on offense either. If they were competent with the glove, maybe. Sheets is an absolute hack and Burger nowhere near Moncada

And you won't answer because you know the obvious problem. To sign a guy comparable to Giolito requires either: a lot more money than we're likely to spend on Giolito, in a season where the budget is already tight...or a lot of luck, which we're already gambling on with Clevinger.

a 1/18 million is one of the worst contracts in baseball? You say a lot of silly things. Yes, he was atrocious last year... but it's only a 1/18... it isn't going to hamstring long term franchises like other deals.

Also worth remembering that Giolito is fully eligible for a QO and a returning draft pick if the White Sox hold onto him for another year, so whatever they get back better be substantially more valuable than that pick.

The best teams have maybe what like 5-6 good bats in a lineup? Why put so many resources into making one of those catcher for 130 games per year

Swapping a bad catcher on a bad contract for another bad catcher on an even worse contract. Sounds about right.

The Harper/Machado offseason was actually way worse than you're remembering. That's the offseason where they traded Narvaez for Colome (because Narvaez won't ever become a decent defensive catcher and the one thing my 60 win team needs is a closer), traded for Yonder Alonso (Friends and Family package!), signed Jon Jay, signed Ivan Nova, and signed Kelvin Herrera to a 2 year deal (because my 60 win team needs bullpen depth). That was also the year when they were supposed to be out of the penalty box in terms of international signings, but were so lazy about doing their job that they had money leftover to trade to Texas to get them to absorb Nate Jones's deal. (one positive note - after they had 0 catchers on their roster, this was the offseason they added McCann, but they also paid money for Welington Castillo). That offseason set the White Sox back in ways that are still rippling through. They signed Grandal because they were too lazy to teach Narvaez anything. They added nearly $60 million to the payroll on a 60 win team with guys on 1-2 year deals - boy I can't think of a year where it would be better to use that than 2019. And they completely and utterly failed at using the playing time they had to develop long term solutions anywhere, so they have spent multiple years dumping money and talent into filling OF, bullpen, and bench slots. They gave playing time to develop key guys like Ryan Cordell, Charlie Tilson, and Daniel Palka in the OF, and worked to develop noted long term 2b option Yolmer Sanchez with 600 PAs. That was literally the offseason where they said "Now we can go back to doing things the way we want to do it and stop with all this planning ahead and thinking s***. Now let's go sign relievers!"

Why don’t we give the new coaching staff a chance to hold players accountable before acquiring a player with a bad contract to do so? I get our spending has been bad and I’m not overly optimistic it will get much better anytime soon, but eating up 10% or more of our payroll space for the next three years on Perez seems like a crazy thing to do.

Salvy would be a much needed presence that demands things lacking on this team like "paying attention during the baseball game" though. The "setting an example by paying attention while half the team is not paying attention" wasn't working, imo. His contract is not good, but if we didn't have that contract, it's true we could sign a redemption fifth starter with that money. Or a 30+ year old slap hitting infielder. Or an outfielder who can only hit one site of a platoon. These are tough tough calls.

Well that is wrong. The first year I looked up they had a top 10 attendance. The problem with using attendance and revenue is it is THEIR FAULT it is what it is. They are playing in the #3 market in the US, and their team is a redheaded stepchild even though it probably was given the easiest path to total domination when they split into 6 divisions and had the rest of the division some of the smallest revenue producing teams in the league.

Wasn’t it already, pretty much, proven they made a really bad offer to Machado and didn’t even offer for Harper?

What is a contention winner? lol You've spun this conversation around since you lost the debate about Jerry's spending. I actually don't disagree if someone were to say the Sox could win the World Series if a bunch of things fall right. That doesn't mean the rebuild wasnt in a better position a couple years ago. Their time to really spend was several years ago. For example - IMO - signing Bryce Harper when he was a free agent and practically begging for a team to pay him, would have been a more impactful move than even signing Aaron Judge this winter would be. There would have been more benefit at the previous point in time, while you still had Giolito's prime, it was before Moncada's decline, etc.

I feel the Sox are more bologna sandwich than peanut butter and jelly. PBJ has a track record of dependability and performance.

Another terrible take from you. Shocking.

These last two SP deals make me love the Clevinger deal even more

I’d rather go 1/$12M for Clevinger than 3/$40M for Eflin. There will likely be a rotation shakeup next year and I’d rather have money towards a higher ceiling guy than Eflin.