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Jimenez needs to be traded. Guy is an injury waiting to happen and any thought he'll ever have a 35-40 home run season is delusional. Keep Vaughn (for now.)

Sure you can, you can refuse to press charges. The Dodgers had no issue at all with giving him that contract. Oddly that location and the contract led to this situation. The Athletic piece is exactly what I was talked about yesterday in this thread. The state of the media in America could be the greatest detriment to our society currently.

I’m sort of ancient and old school and still look at BA, Homers and Ribbies, lead the league in all 3 and you win the Triple Crown, I had to look up wRC+ and I’m still not sure what it means.

There's a 10 minute Bill Burr bit that could summarize this entire thread.

We are in the process of ditching cable in our household to go to streaming and I told my wife that I want to make sure to get something so that I can watch the Sox games next season....and then I think to myself "boy that sounds kinda stupid to have that as a priority, huh?"

They combined for .7 fWAR. They were a staggering -27 runs below average defensively, even for players on the wrong side of the defensive spectrum adjustment that's impressive suck. Both guys actually outperformed their expected wOBA by half a dozen or so points each, so it wasn't like it was bad luck holding their batting lines back. Eloy had an average launch angle of 5.7 degrees, one of the worst of any MLB regular. Vaughn was at 11.2 but "warning track power" describes his game pretty well. Neither guy had an ISO to write home about, Eloy had .169 and Vaughn .171. Those are power numbers you'd expect from a decent 2B, not glorified designated hitters. Vaughn is certainly not an extension candidate and Eloy has club options for '25 and '26 at 16.5 million and 18.5 million respectively. Those are almost certainly not getting picked up. So in essence Eloy is under contract for next season and then that's it. Vaughn will stay cheap for a bit longer, but if he's replacement level, uh, who cares. Do you trade Eloy at rock bottom value? Or maybe hope he runs into a few next summer and you can get something better at the deadline? Do you pencil in Vaughn as the starter at 1B again given that he's shown no ability to be an average MLB player? There's more time to decide with him than Eloy, but again, replacement level play even when cheap isn't doing anybody any good. IMO I'd just trade both guys for whatever table scraps you can get and reboot. I don't really see how the Sox contend next year in any universe you might as well just start clearing dead wood and there is an opportunity cost keeping these guys around. There's really nothing in either guy's athletic or batted ball profile that screams "massive upside". Even if Vaughn starts to hit he's still a god awful 1B and even if Eloy starts to hit he's still an injury prone DH. Maybe he puts it together one season but it's not something the Sox need to worry about given how far they are from contending if he puts up a 4 fWAR season in 2024.

If I had to guess what they will do - they'll add a handful of cheap but tolerable pieces elsewhere while pretending these guys are way better than they are, then declare themselves loudly to be competitive for the Central - exactly like they did this year.

Are you happy with the seasons by Kopech, Cease, Kelly, Lynn, Giolito, Lopez?

I'm not.

I don't know how it happened, but someone managed to make them more aggressive, more ground ball focused, and less power focused than they were on those things in 2022, when they were really quite bad at all of them.

Without RBI's, you don't score...without scoring you don't win.

I’d stay with Vaughn and hope he gets better, he’s wasn’t horrible with 21 homers and 80 RBI, I was disappointed that he never figured out to lay off the low and away pitch, Robert early in the year was constantly striking out on the same pitch but he figured things out. As for Eloy, it’s time to say goodbye.

I'm willing to give Pedro another year with almost a new, plus it will be his, staff. All new hitting which is huge.

The whole organization is a mess, what does it say about things when Robert didn’t even know who the bench coach was, how does something like that happen.

They aren't blocking anyone so I don't see the point in trading them. They aren't valuable. Eloy could net something if he re-emerges as a 135 wRC+ guy. I still think that would be him in a different org.

The other part you didn't add is that they are all super aggressive. Eloy's walk rate this year was back down to where it was during his rookie year, so he's not getting on base. Vaughn's walk rate was bad and it got worse during the year, he had a 2 month period from July to August where he had 3 walks. There is some reason to believe that decent coaching could help these guys improve, but the White Sox are specifically picking coaches who want their guys to hit the ball on the ground and be aggressive, so you see that as a reason why these guys are bad, the White Sox want them to do this. I do think there's a decent chance someone would take on most of Eloy's contract if you were trying to clear the money. I would be ok with clearing that deal, but it's not a big move that improves them. Vaughn will be in his first arbitration season this year. There's no good reason to move him yet, he'll get paid like $2 million, his trade value is zero, and there's no one around pushing for 1b. For a rebuilding team with no real path to competing like the White Sox, there's no reason not to hold onto him for 1 more year, even if he has a 1/100 shot of breaking out, that's better than the chances you'd have if you played Sheets there.

I just wonder what is going through these coaches minds when Pedro says to their faces they weren't good enough they are gone, but for some reason, his performance got him another year.

I thought of one. Getz could be an incompetent GM.

Wow!

Your attitude is devolving

Chuck is White Sox Jim Rome.

Was this therapeutic?

You’re missing the point, what does his sexual preferences have to do with pitching in the MLB? Didn’t commit a crime, never charged with anything, pretty much zero evidence of wrong doing. You hate him though because he’s into something you don’t like. I get it though, I don’t understand how anyone likes the show Friends. It’s terrible.

I don't think any Sox fan should be kink shaming someone who is into bdsm. Bunch of masochists...

Boston out of lives, Katz has eight more it seems.

Especially when Salvy eats up 27% of that amount.

I don't think it's that complex, I think it's actually common sense. Do you achieve an erection by choking and beating your sexual partner within an inch of their life? Personally, I don't. I actually think it's pretty fuckin' weird. It seems like a mental disorder that a kinder society might've picked up on and intervened in earlier to prevent these sorts of heinous acts from happening. Yeah it is heinous, it is immoral. I'm not religious, my politics tend toward left, but I'm a human being and I know what's right and what's wrong regardless of the very American logic of 'it doesn't affect you, just mind your business' because it does affect me and the rest of society. It's liberalism turned hedonism. Why care about a baseball player? Because sport reflects society, especially baseball and American society. I want the White Sox to win but I also want these 'role models' to actually act like role models, they're paying them enough money and it isn't that hard to not be a scumbag. And these guys like Bauer make things worse for themselves by acting like entitled children, that everyone else has wronged them and it has nothing to do with their own actions. I'm not "woke" in the sense that I think women might lie about such things because the millionaire athlete didn't submit to extortion. But look at Derrick Rose. He "won" his case and couldn't be convicted of a crime, but all the evidence nonetheless exposed him as a slimy weirdo. Trevor Bauer may not be a criminal who deserves life in prison, but I don't want to root for that loser and I don't want my team to sign him either.

So you’re the problem. You need to leave the country. Take Grifol with you.

Well that round was a waste.

The dumpster diving world which what the Sox generally do.

It’s a fair question, but every time I doubt it’s significance, I remember Marcus Semien.

After the last 2 years I'd say that asserting any player on the White Sox is not a clubhouse problem is a truly bold, bewildering statement.

JR still here? Don’t care.

F*** man, you said Joe Kelly was league average, dude put up -0.2 rWAR with the White Sox, he wasn't even replacement level! By that standard, Ethan Katz did a great job on me, while posting here I produced 0.0 rWAR for the White Sox this year.

Lance Lynn doesn’t take care of his body which is beyond dumb for an older pitcher. I think Stone alluded multiple times that Lynn was very out of shape when he broke camp. I don’t blame the pitching coach, I blame the manager who is seemingly afraid of veterans for allowing that to happen. 2023 wasn’t one of his best years but Giolito was solid with the Sox. Joe Kelly was league average. Lopez was surprisingly above league average for the Sox as well. Let’s not forget to mention Clevinger who put up 3.3 WAR for the Sox this year with a ERA+ of 118, that signing while controversial was a huge success. Yeah, Cease‘s command took a step back. And Kopech unraveled but I don’t think Katz is the problem.

Where do you stand on, say, anti-pornography seminars in baseball? ?

Different players have different roles. Guys in the middle of a good batting order are expected to drive in runs, getting on base a lot, and note I said a lot, shouldn't be the primary focus. That's ideally for the numbers 1-2-7-8-9 in a good lineup. Guys hitting 3-4-5-6 should be driving in runs be it with a home run or an extra base hit or getting guys home with less than two outs productively. .

At least he's not a former Royal....

I get that, but how does Pedro get to tell everyone they failed.

Per SI https://www.si.com/fannation/mlb/fastball/news/chicago-white-sox-make-several-coaching-staff-changes-ahead-of-2024-season#:~:text=Hitting coach Jose Castro and,will be reassigned%2C sources said.

Sox arms combined for 5IP 0ER 0H 3BB 5K yesterday. Cousin is scheduled to start on Friday, and there should be a live stream for that one.

The biggest story around the Sox is how they suck and how it sucks being a fan of them. How are you surprised that that's being talked about so much? It's virtually impossible to "talk about baseball" without it being centered around how much they suck.

I think they already decided that they did nothing wrong, the problem was just a couple of people (Hahn and Williams) but they don't need to make any fundamental changes, they need to keep doing things the way they have been doing, just with a few minor tweaks.

Bottom line in America companies are free to hire anyone they want, and with a few exceptions, can not hire anyone they want. After this became public besides MLB teams there are thousands of other companies that aren't offering him work. He couldn't get elected to office. He couldn't get work as a college coach. The reason he earned millions each year is he produced many times that in revenue for the owners. Now that he can't produce that revenue for the owners he's not worth the money. It's not about his ability to pitch, is about his ability to sell tickets. Let this be a lesson for all the youngsters out there. Choking someone until they pass out is career suicide in most industries. Maybe he could try porn.

Those teams sucked too. The specialized by getting their asses kicked by the Yankees, Twins and Indians.

I would much rather staff a bullpen with a dozen guys like this than go out and spend $30 million on 3 veterans. Probably about the same odds of finding 1 or 2 good relievers, as long as you don't care about the games you lose, which I don't.

But why would you be into that? You’re really missing the point. I don’t want to associate with psychopaths who “consensually” get off on being depraved monsters. It’s sick and inhuman, I don’t care if it’s legal or not.

Why is he a piece of s%*#, because he has a weird sex fetish? There are probably dozens of people you know or work with or are around all the time who have some weird ass thing they are into. You can disagree with it, but I don't see why that makes someone a "piece of s%*#". If he was found guilty of just straight abusing some woman against her will, absolutely, should be put in jail. That's not what happened here.

She looked pretty happy and unharmed in those bed videos.