Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[bmags]

I like Abreu but 2014 Konerko was not fun or enjoyable. 
 

I wish we were like the Guardians and had a bunch of athletic, young, defensively sound players and getting a corner infielder in helps with the offense.

But we’re a team with a bunch of 15 home run hitting DHs. You only have so many resources to go around. 

[Bob Sacamano]

If we didn’t have a bunch of guys who could DH, I’d say bring him back. But Vaughn should be at 1B and Eloy’s gloves should be burned.

[caulfield12]

8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I get where you're going with the concept and I don't think it's that outrageous, but I hit a wall right here. I don't think anyone takes on $10 million for Leury or $9 million for Kelly in order to take on Gavin Sheets or Jake Burger. Sheets had plenty of opportunities this year and has an OPS in the low .700s, that's not good enough for a DH/1b. Burger hit better, but has an injury history and was awful at 3b when given a chance there. As a 1b/DH, mid-.700s OPS is tolerable but not great.

I wouldn't take Leury or Kelly on in order to get either of those guys if I was the GM of another team, unless you were taking like half their salaries back in bad money from my roster as well. I can get an .800-ish OPS and average defense at 1b from CJ Cron for $7.5 million/year, why are either of those guys worth more?

There's always a Harold Ramirez type out there for nothing...Burger and Sheets aren't enticing enough.

Heck, if you do your homework well, anyone could have had Oscar Gonzalez, who possesses more physical tools than Vaughn and Sheets combined.

Edited October 4, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Houston. 

Gurriel was terrible this year. Also aging.

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Gurriel was terrible this year. Also aging.

Also a free agent after this year.

[Chicago White Sox]

If we truly have $30M in payroll space, then trade Vaughn & Montgomery for Ohtani and call it an off-season (works per BBTV and they are never wrong!).

[caulfield12]

29 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Or. Or they're gonna be even lazier with him not around.  

If that's the case, why keep Hahn around?  Will just continue to dig a bigger hole for the next GM.

[bmags]

Why are we acting like other teams think Vaughn is super valuable?

[ChiSox59]

54 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

Just not buying that yet.

Well there is stat called OPS+ and wRC+ that tell you this very thing. They average 114, meaning he’s 14% above average. Those numbers were in the 120s before his recent slump. He’s a very good hitter. He’s also not an OF. He needs to play 1B or DH, and we have a DH who is our best hitter when he’s on the field. Which means AV needs to play 1B. 

[soxfaninfl]

No need to pander. I am just a not buying he can replace Jose.

[The Beast]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

Why are we acting like other teams think Vaughn is super valuable?

Because White Sox fans overvalue their players.

[chw42]

5 hours ago, bmags said:

Why are we acting like other teams think Vaughn is super valuable?

Vaughn's fading offense the past 2 years in September has really made him look just alright as a hitter. When in reality he looked pretty good for the first 4 months of the season in both years. Vaughn has way more value in the future on the Sox than he does in a trade. You'd be selling low on him right now. 

[Boopa1219]

5 hours ago, bmags said:

Why are we acting like other teams think Vaughn is super valuable?

TIL that Vaughn is one of the leaders in hard hit ball rate, he ranked fifth right behind Juan Soto. 

His value in terms of WAR will increase once he's out of the outfield and at first. It should also help his physical longevity as well

[Chicago White Sox]

In all honesty, it’s hard to trade any of our positional guys before you give them a chance to work with a new hitting coach.  Vaughn in particular is in need of a new voice to help drive some approach changes.  The hart hit numbers are great, but not when they are combined with a contact heavy, low launch angle, opposite field heavy approach.  Like a ton of the guys in the lineup, Vaughn needs to sacrifice BA for OBP & SLG.  Hopefully that will be the priority for the next hitting coach.

[bmags]

5 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

TIL that Vaughn is one of the leaders in hard hit ball rate, he ranked fifth right behind Juan Soto. 

His value in terms of WAR will increase once he's out of the outfield and at first. It should also help his physical longevity as well

He’s a 115 wRC+ first baseman. Not exactly the rarest profile out there.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

He’s a 115 wRC+ first baseman. Not exactly the rarest profile out there.

So was Freddie Freeman in his second full season.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So was Freddie Freeman in his second full season.

Would have been a poor time to trade him imo.

[ChiSox59]

8 hours ago, chw42 said:

Vaughn's fading offense the past 2 years in September has really made him look just alright as a hitter. When in reality he looked pretty good for the first 4 months of the season in both years. Vaughn has way more value in the future on the Sox than he does in a trade. You'd be selling low on him right now. 

To be honest, you could use the bolded for pretty much every single player on the Sox besides Cease.  Hence the Sox predicament...

[caulfield12]

Tim Anderson’s up there behind Cease because he’s such a known commodity…and there’s a huge logjam getting ready to form at the back end of those first tier of FA SS’s.

Those who get left out of the $200+ million contract guys but want something more of a known quantity than a Trevor Story type.

Not sure how much that helps the Sox in 2023, though…assuming AA/AAA prospects back in return.

 

If you want to make a seismic shift in club leadership, TA7 and Abreu both out is the way to go.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1. Colas makes debut by mid-April.

2. Sign Conforto 1 year 12 million with a team option for 15 million (I'll die on this bridge lol)

3. Let Abreu walk

4. Sign Kolten Wong once he is released by the Brewers 2/20 (Romy to platoon)

6.  Sign an older veteran SP for around 10-12 mil. Clevinger?

7. Pollack as your 4th OF, and primary LF until Colas is ready.

8.  Keep Sheets in AAA as 1B insurance and corner OF insurance

9. Actually sign some minor league depth contracts, preferably another OF (Haseley again?), and Pitching.

This adds about 35 million to the payroll and would keep us under the luxury tax. This focuses on adding 3 left handed batters and would provide a far more balance lineup.

Anderson (R), Conforto (L), Robert (R), Eloy (R), Vaughn (R) , Moncada (S), Colas, (L), Grandal (S), Wong (L)

Cease, Lynn, Giolito, Kopech, Clevinger, Martin

 

Gotta get a bounce back from Giolito and Moncadal for this to work.

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

In all honesty, it’s hard to trade any of our positional guys before you give them a chance to work with a new hitting coach.  Vaughn in particular is in need of a new voice to help drive some approach changes.  The hart hit numbers are great, but not when they are combined with a contact heavy, low launch angle, opposite field heavy approach.  Like a ton of the guys in the lineup, Vaughn needs to sacrifice BA for OBP & SLG.  Hopefully that will be the priority for the next hitting coach.

It is worth stressing again that the "hit the ball on the ground" approach did not begin with LaRussa, or even Menechino. Todd Steverson was the first hitting coach hired by Rick Hahn in 2014, and his teams constantly were at the bottom of the league in launch angle since the start of statcast tracking and were at the top of the league in ground ball rate before that. When he was removed, Menechino was brought in and was hired by Hahn before LaRussa was brought in. 

The last time that the White Sox had an elevated fly ball rate was in 2013, when Jeff Manto was their hitting coach. Manto, of course, started in 2012 and would have been hired by Kenny Williams. 

Rick Hahn has hired two hitting coaches and the results consistently have been "hit the ball on the ground" out of both. This isn't a coincidence, and it isn't something LaRussa brought. 

[ChiSox59]

37 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

1. Colas makes debut by mid-April.

2. Sign Conforto 1 year 12 million with a team option for 15 million (I'll die on this bridge lol)

3. Let Abreu walk

4. Sign Kolten Wong once he is released by the Brewers 2/20 (Romy to platoon)

6.  Sign an older veteran SP for around 10-12 mil. Clevinger?

7. Pollack as your 4th OF, and primary LF until Colas is ready.

8.  Keep Sheets in AAA as 1B insurance and corner OF insurance

9. Actually sign some minor league depth contracts, preferably another OF (Haseley again?), and Pitching.

This adds about 35 million to the payroll and would keep us under the luxury tax. This focuses on adding 3 left handed batters and would provide a far more balance lineup.

Anderson (R), Conforto (L), Robert (R), Eloy (R), Vaughn (R) , Moncada (S), Colas, (L), Grandal (S), Wong (L)

Cease, Lynn, Giolito, Kopech, Clevinger, Martin

 

Gotta get a bounce back from Giolito and Moncadal for this to work.

I like this plan, and not too dissimilar from mine.  I was on the Conforto train hard for 22, so I can't completely nix it now ---- I think he's a solid back up plan.  But after watching that charade of an OF defense in 22, I just really feel like they need to target a better OF.  If Conforto costs $12M, just choke up the extra $6-8M for Nimmo who is a much better defender.  Alot of $ comes off the books after 2023.  I am willing to let 2B for fully internal to make the dollars balance. 

I also think that Wong is a solid name to target, but I don't think he's a very good defender.  Love he bats left handed and would take him 100/100 times over Harrison, but I do think if we're going to bring in a 2B, we should target one that both fields his position AND bats left handed.   

[chitownsportsfan]

I haven't thought about it too much but from reading here it seems that one of Vaughn, Eloy and Jose has to go, and probably two of them if you're serious about fixing some of the issues that plague this roster. I don't think that you need to carve out a role for Sheets, he had a 108 wRC+ against RHP and that's hardly good enough to carry his glove.

Personally I don't like selling low so I'd hold on Vaughn and Eloy. Jose, well, you let him walk. I'd probably just give Sheets away for an A ball lotto ticket or similar, maybe a MLB ready reliever.

I'd look to trade Burger, Sheets, Giolito, Liam and possibly Moncada if you can get anything back. I know I just said I don't like selling low but in a package deal maybe it would make sense.

Frankly I don't need next season to look like a 90-95 win team on paper. I just want to see a balanced roster with actual flexibility going forward both payroll wise and with the position players. If they have to take a "step back" in projectable talent for 2023 to do so, that's fine.

Expectations have been reset for better and worse.

[Tony]

11 hours ago, chw42 said:

Vaughn's fading offense the past 2 years in September has really made him look just alright as a hitter. When in reality he looked pretty good for the first 4 months of the season in both years. Vaughn has way more value in the future on the Sox than he does in a trade. You'd be selling low on him right now. 

There was a fairly dramatic drop in power from basically every Sox hitter in 2022 as well. No one knows why it occured, but I'm not ready to say this is the Andrew Vaughn we'll get moving forward. 

I think moving on from him now is a mistake, but I also understand the roster crunch the Sox are under. 

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'd probably just give Sheets away for an A ball lotto ticket or similar, maybe a MLB ready reliever.

Why?  Why not just stash Sheets and Burget in AAA until they're needed?  This roster is loaded with injury prone guys.  Having slightly better than replacement level players who won't get embarrassed offensively at the big league level is pretty nice to have.  Neither Burger nor Sheets are returning anything all that interesting, so just keep them for depth.  Them both having options is a huge feather in the Sox cap, IMO. 

That all said, penciling either of them as even role players on the big league level would be a huge mistake, just like it was this season.