Bob Sacamano Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said: Does the buyout still hit if the Sox agree to the mutual option and Clevinger doesnt? I want to say yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said: Does the buyout still hit if the Sox agree to the mutual option and Clevinger doesnt? No, it's mutual, so it doesn't vest if Clevinger says no. Clevinger Yes = $4M buyout or $12M 2024 contract Clevinger No = $0, he is an unrestricted FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: No, it's mutual, so it doesn't vest if Clevinger says no. Clevinger Yes = $4M buyout or $12M 2024 contract Clevinger No = $0, he is an unrestricted FA. Pollock said no and got his buyout.  I’m sure this is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: A little surprised at this but the Sox want to continue to shed payroll (no big surprise) and I'm guessing they picked up hints that Clevinger had indicated he wanted to go to another team next year and wouldn't agree to his side of the option. Make that four starting pitchers the Sox who hope to compete (LOL) need to pick up next season. Maybe they will go to openers like I suggested. Don't need "starters" anymore. That said ... if the Sox truly wanted to rebuild, they'd claim some of these guys on waivers and acquire them. Clevenger is actually their best pitcher. Weird they want to dump him if they have any desire to win more than 50 games next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Pollock said no and got his buyout.  I’m sure this is the same. No, Pollock's was a player option, take the $5M buyout or $10M contract. 23:$10M player option ($5M buyout) Mike Clevinger & White Sox have a mutual option. Both agree = $12M 2024 Contract Clevinger accepts, Sox decline = $4M Buyout, Clevinger is an unrestricted 2024 free agent with $4M Clevinger declines = $0 exchanged, Clevinger is an unrestricted 2024 free agent with $0 due by his former team (Sox if unclaimed).  Edited August 29, 2023 by South Side Hit Men 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 And Grandal is still here..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said: No, Pollock's was a player option, take the $5M buyout or $10M contract. 23:$10M player option ($5M buyout) Mike Clevinger & White Sox have a mutual option. Both agree = $12M 2024 Contract Clevinger accepts, Sox decline = $4M Buyout, Clevinger is an unrestricted 2024 free agent with $4M Clevinger declines (he acts first) = $0 exchanged, Clevinger is an unrestricted 2024 free agent with $0 Â Read MLBTR, the 4 million is guaranteed if either side backs out. But these waivers are different from the old August trade waivers. If no one claims him, he can still walk and get paid by the White Sox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, JoshPR said: And Grandal is still here..... You can assume he's on waivers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 Might as well replace him with Josh Donaldson for entertainment purposes. Who in God's name is going to take those extra starts? We're already trying to kick Kopech to the bullpen as things stand right now. Â Cease, Touki, Scholtens and lots of question marks. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Read MLBTR, the 4 million is guaranteed if either side backs out. But these waivers are different from the old August trade waivers. If no one claims him, he can still walk and get paid by the White Sox. OK, I saw a corresponding article that clarifies it. Cot's contract didn't say $4M due regardless, just said buyout which typically means a club declining for a mutual option. The Clevinger scenario is deferred compensation, $8M 2023 and $4M guaranteed in 2024, plus a $8M contract if both sides want it, which rarely if ever would happen (either he would want more or he sucks / is injured and the Sox would want out. In either case, it is not the same as a player only option or a team only option. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaredwyllys/2023/08/29/mike-clevingers-mutual-option-in-play-with-the-white-sox/ The 32-year-old signed a one-year, $12 million contract last off-season with a built-in mutual option for next season that includes a $4 million buyout if either side chooses to part ways. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said: What the hell is going on? Who is going to pitch the rest of the year unless we’re in on a tank job. Giolito? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Why not Grandal as well? Andrus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 You know Kenny was fired to avoid Alex Rios somehow ending up back on the team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said: Why not Grandal as well? Andrus? Waivers aren't public. I guarantee Grandal is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said: Does the buyout still hit if the Sox agree to the mutual option and Clevinger doesnt? No. It just becomes a 1 year $12M deal if both sides agree to it. No buyout in that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 50 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: No, Pollock's was a player option, take the $5M buyout or $10M contract. 23:$10M player option ($5M buyout) Mike Clevinger & White Sox have a mutual option. Both agree = $12M 2024 Contract Clevinger accepts, Sox decline = $4M Buyout, Clevinger is an unrestricted 2024 free agent with $4M Clevinger declines = $0 exchanged, Clevinger is an unrestricted 2024 free agent with $0 due by his former team (Sox if unclaimed).  Pretty sure this is wrong. If either side opt out, Sox (or whomever acquires him) owes Clevinger $4M buyout. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Pretty sure this is wrong. If either side opt out, Sox (or whomever acquires him) owes Clevinger $4M buyout. This is the correct statement of how mutual options and buyouts work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 I wonder if Getz understands this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, oldsox said: I wonder if Getz understands this stuff. If Robert is on waivers I'll worry. The rest of the roster can GTFO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: A little surprised at this but the Sox want to continue to shed payroll (no big surprise) and I'm guessing they picked up hints that Clevinger had indicated he wanted to go to another team next year and wouldn't agree to his side of the option. Make that four starting pitchers the Sox who hope to compete (LOL) need to pick up next season. Of course he isn’t picking it up. It’s a $4 million difference only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: No, it's mutual, so it doesn't vest if Clevinger says no. Clevinger Yes = $4M buyout or $12M 2024 contract Clevinger No = $0, he is an unrestricted FA. This isn’t correct. Clevinger gets $4 million regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: This isn’t correct. Clevinger gets $4 million regardless.  43 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Pretty sure this is wrong. If either side opt out, Sox (or whomever acquires him) owes Clevinger $4M buyout. Yes, this was more like deferred compensation than a typical "mutual option", the way it reads on Cot's Contracts made me believe the Sox owed nothing if they accepted the $12M option and he declined. I posted what I found from Forbes an hour ago confirming the $4M is guaranteed even if the team wants the option and he declines. I don't believe this is how a typical mutual option works.  1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: OK, I saw a corresponding article that clarifies it. Cot's contract didn't say $4M due regardless, just said buyout which typically means a club declining for a mutual option. The Clevinger scenario is deferred compensation, $8M 2023 and $4M guaranteed in 2024, plus a $8M contract if both sides want it, which rarely if ever would happen (either he would want more or he sucks / is injured and the Sox would want out. In either case, it is not the same as a player only option or a team only option. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaredwyllys/2023/08/29/mike-clevingers-mutual-option-in-play-with-the-white-sox/ The 32-year-old signed a one-year, $12 million contract last off-season with a built-in mutual option for next season that includes a $4 million buyout if either side chooses to part ways.   Edited August 30, 2023 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 How exactly do waivers work since they changed the rules? Are these guys FA no matter what if no one claimed them, or can teams pull them back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 minute ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: How exactly do waivers work since they changed the rules? Are these guys FA no matter what if no one claimed them, or can teams pull them back? The primary rule change was a team could pull their revokable player waiver after the trade deadline and negotiate a trade, whereas now a player can be pulled back, but a trade cannot be negotiated (either the team allows the team to claim the player, or revokes the waiver and retains). With the new rules, it's unlikely a team would revoke the waiver since they are trying to get another team to claim the player and contract. https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/trade-waivers-aug-31-deadline Quote Under the old system, the player's original club had three options when a trade waiver claim was placed: It could either work out a standard trade with the claiming club (the two sides had 48 hours to agree to a deal), allow the player -- and all money remaining on his contract -- to go to the claiming club with no return or pull the player back off waivers. A player who was pulled back off waivers could be placed on trade waivers a second time, but at that point the waiver request became irrevocable. If a player passed through waivers unclaimed, he could then be traded to any club, free of restriction (though all 40-man-roster players in the trade had to clear waivers before being dealt). As of 2019, players may still be placed and claimed on outright waivers after the Trade Deadline, but trades aren't permitted after that date. With regards to newly acquired players, the Aug. 31 postseason roster deadline remains in effect. Â 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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