Cease To Padres per Passan

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I've heard it in lots of places that Montgomery ends up at 3B over past few days. He might ultimately but he'll be a big league shortstop to start his career. 

That's a bit disappointing. Was really hoping he'd stay at SS. I wonder what they do with Ramos if he forces their hand next season. His numbers were solid for a 21 year old in AA. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Anytime you look ahead to future lineups banking on prospects, you need the asterisks next to names: *if the player develops.

100%, but at least there would be some chance of having a competent lineup if most things worked out.  I just don’t see how we do that anytime soon without leveraging Cease unfortunately.  I think there is a far better chance that we luck out with more advanced pitching prospects and are able to cobble together a halfway decent rotation, especially with the addition of Bannister.

[SoCalChiSox]

3 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I talked to someone who saw him in the AFL and said the same.  Said he's gonna be real good at 3B. 

OK. I think Law also said he struggled at SS in AFL too. 

A real good LHH 3B who can hit for avg, power and very high OBP is still very valuable. 

But with a likely hole at SS they need to get Elias at BAL to stop acting like a little prospect hugging b**** then. 

Maybe after a few more pitchers go off the board BAL will get serious. 

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

100%, but at least there would be some chance of having a competent lineup if most things worked out.  I just don’t see how we do that anytime soon without leveraging Cease unfortunately.  I think there is a far better chance that we luck out with more advanced pitching prospects and are able to cobble together a halfway decent rotation, especially with the addition of Bannister.

Bannister will make or break Kopech, Nastrini and Eder. That dude is critical. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

Maybe the top power, but Adam Haseley was placed above him (and picked above him). Same for Pavin Smith. And Keston Hiura. McKay was a two-way player, but same deal.

Like, Burger was very much not the #1 bat in that draft and got mocked well below where the Sox took him. There's no need to rewrite history because he had a great 2023 and the Sox traded him.

Haseley was drafted as a CFer and McKay a poor man's Ichiro...Huira and Smith would be the comps because all three (along with Burger) were perceived as bat first players.

It's safe to say he was perceived to be a Top 3-5 hitter in that collegiate class by many...especially Hostetler.

 

 

"Let’s start with the biggest power bat of the season, a player who, according to Statcast, should have 8.4 homers in just 67 at-bats. In a normal season of 550 at-bats, that’s 69 homers. Forget 69 homers, obviously, but he’s surely someone worth rostering. The player? Jake Burger, a former top NCAA slugger short-circuited by two Achilles tears. His physique once comported with someone with his last name. He’s lost weight but still has a protein-packed swing."

theathletic.com

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[Timmy U]

3 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

OK. I think Law also said he struggled at SS in AFL too. 

A real good LHH 3B who can hit for avg, power and very high OBP is still very valuable. 

But with a likely hole at SS they need to get Elias at BAL to stop acting like a little prospect hugging b**** then. 

Maybe after a few more pitchers go off the board BAL will get serious. 

Law had a one game look. Hardly definitive.  Colson also didn’t hit in that look, doesn’t mean you should question the bat.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Well then it makes sense to target a guy who can stick at SS in the Cease trade.

 

1 hour ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Jimmy....what about Gonzalez?

I know his bat has been underwhelming but what about his defense at shortstop to date? 

If they trade with BAL, they can solve this issue real easily with Ortiz. 

I’m not worried about Gonzalez defensively 

44 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m only moving Montgomery off SS if you can get a plus glove SS like Ortiz as the second piece in a Cease trade.  Otherwise, I think you need to keep him at SS until he outgrows the position because it would force Ramos to non-ideal defensive position.

 

11 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I talked to someone who saw him in the AFL and said the same.  Said he's gonna be real good at 3B. 

 

10 minutes ago, ron883 said:

That's a bit disappointing. Was really hoping he'd stay at SS. I wonder what they do with Ramos if he forces their hand next season. His numbers were solid for a 21 year old in AA. 

My point was that it’s premature to write off shortstop. I’ve seen many on this board mention it as well as podcasts etc. He’s playing shortstop. He might end up at 3B eventually but I’d be stunned if he’s not a shortstop to start. 

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Haseley was drafted as a CFer and McKay a poor man's Ichiro...Huira and Smith would be the comps because all three (along with Burger) were perceived as bat first players.

It's safe to say he was perceived to be a Top 3-5 hitter in that collegiate class by many...especially Hostetler.

 

 

"Let’s start with the biggest power bat of the season, a player who, according to Statcast, should have 8.4 homers in just 67 at-bats. In a normal season of 550 at-bats, that’s 69 homers. Forget 69 homers, obviously, but he’s surely someone worth rostering. The player? Jake Burger, a former top NCAA slugger short-circuited by two Achilles tears. His physique once comported with someone with his last name. He’s lost weight but still has a protein-packed swing."

theathletic.com

 

That's not necessarily a good thing.

[SoCalChiSox]

5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

I’m not worried about Gonzalez defensively 

 

 

My point was that it’s premature to write off shortstop. I’ve seen many on this board mention it as well as podcasts etc. He’s playing shortstop. He might end up at 3B eventually but I’d be stunned if he’s not a shortstop to start. 

The Gonzalez comment is great! Unfortunately his bat seems light years away from the majors. He was pegged as 55 hit/55 power which would be great as a LHH at either SS or 2B but so far it's kind of like Zack Collins where we were sold 55 hit but it turned out to be 20 hit so he couldn't get to any of his big time power.

If you are sold on his D, then even 50/50 would be fine, but if it's gonna take forever or if the hit is 40 or less, they are kind of forced to get Ortiz.

Edited November 28, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

That's not necessarily a good thing.

The biggest concern beyond his weight was the hitch or T-bar/arm bar in his swing that was supposed to get exposed at the next level...and worries that SW Missouri State wasn't exactly a P5 conference in terms of competition.

[Quin]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

The biggest concern beyond his weight was the hitch or T-bar/arm bar in his swing that was supposed to get exposed at the next level...and worries that SW Missouri State wasn't exactly a P5 conference in terms of competition.

I'm highlighting the Hostetler part.

Look man, Burger is the ultimate feel good story, but he wasn't the #1 college bat. You're already walking back from "top..#3 at worst" to "top 3-5." 

There's no point retroactively making the Sox a worse franchise, because they're already horrendous. And if you leave the things that they actually did right in - such as taking Burger higher than expected - then it only serves to highlight their glaring flaws even more.

[bmags]

Do not need any more info on Burger, thnx.

[GreenSox]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Definitely not the Betts deal…that was horrific for Boston, ultimately. Essentially wiped out two GM’s.

That was a lousy deal for Boston on paper; no surprise that it turned out lousy.

I don't think the Dodgers give up much talent either.  The Nats haven't gotten much out of the Scherzer Turner trade.  That the Dodgers, who know the Sox players and prospects better than anyone (including probably the Sox themselves)  like Cease should send a message to the other teams that Cease is worth trading for; but also is a warning flag not to trade with the Dodgers (especially if they want a prospect kicked-back their way).

I'd prefer a trade with the Cardinals, who have given up good players.  But no interest at all in their spare parts like Edman, Donovan and all of those failed outfielders, except as a toss in.  The Cardinals were a sorry 71-win team last year; about what the  Sox would have been, had we not dumped our pitching in August.

Edited November 28, 2023 by GreenSox

[DirtySox]

Dunno if this was posted earlier, but from Rosenthal's Athletic piece.

Quote

White Sox’s Cease in heavy demand
The lack of controllable starting pitching available in a trade increases the likelihood the White Sox will extract a monster return for right-hander Dylan Cease, who can be retained through salary arbitration for two more seasons.

More than a dozen teams have inquired on Cease, with the Dodgers among the most aggressive, as USA Today’s Bob Nightengale and others have reported. The Dodgers’ projected rotation, at present, consists of Walker Buehler coming off Tommy John surgery, Bobby Miller, Ryan Yarbrough, Emmett Sheehan and Ryan Pepiot.

The Dodgers’ farm system remains strong; they had a trade with the Tigers in place for left-hander Eduardo Rodríguez at the deadline, but the deal collapsed when the pitcher invoked his no-trade rights. They also pursued Cease at that time, according to The Athletic’s Fabian Ardaya.

Cease would have commanded far more than Rodríguez then as a likely two-month rental, and also would command far more now. It remains to be seen which team will have the greatest appetite for such a deal.

https://theathletic.com/5095044/2023/11/28/mlb-trade-rumors-juan-soto-padres-blue-jays/

Edited November 28, 2023 by DirtySox

[SoCalChiSox]

I was reading DL Hall bounced back and may now be possibly a rotation option again. If so, Hjerstad, Ortiz and Hall would be great. 

We just gotta get BAL to move somehow. 

[bmags]

Here's the flip side of the Dodgers/White Sox trade...

I have more faith in the Tigers GM than Chris Getz.

If he had a package he liked for ERod, I'd try to get some of those players, plus an over the top one for Cease's value.

Emmett Sheehan, Busch, Vargas would be in the ballpark for me, personally.

[bmags]

(I don't know what that package was, was there a rumor of it anywhere?)

[SoCalChiSox]

21 minutes ago, bmags said:

Here's the flip side of the Dodgers/White Sox trade...

I have more faith in the Tigers GM than Chris Getz.

If he had a package he liked for ERod, I'd try to get some of those players, plus an over the top one for Cease's value.

Emmett Sheehan, Busch, Vargas would be in the ballpark for me, personally.

Vargas doesnt excite me. I'd rather have Vivas as the third piece. 

 

[nrockway]

2 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

OK. I think Law also said he struggled at SS in AFL too. 

A real good LHH 3B who can hit for avg, power and very high OBP is still very valuable. 

But with a likely hole at SS they need to get Elias at BAL to stop acting like a little prospect hugging b**** then. 

Maybe after a few more pitchers go off the board BAL will get serious. 

I'm obsessed with Masyn Winn. kind of slow to groundballs, but 80 grade arm. some analysts suggested his 'rushed' throws might draw first basemen off the bag, but that seems to me like Vaughn's biggest strength as a first baseman, scooping bad throws. Good fit. I think Cease could be enough to get him, but I'd risk throwing Ramos into the deal.

Edited November 28, 2023 by nrockway

[GreenSox]

27 minutes ago, bmags said:

Here's the flip side of the Dodgers/White Sox trade...

I have more faith in the Tigers GM than Chris Getz.

If he had a package he liked for ERod, I'd try to get some of those players, plus an over the top one for Cease's value.

Emmett Sheehan, Busch, Vargas would be in the ballpark for me, personally.

Yea but E Rod was a rent, and while there is a definite sellers market aspect to July, there is also a buyer's market in the sense that the seller has to unload or they get nothing.  And as it is, 2 years of Cease is a lot, lot more than 3 months of E Rod.

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Vargas doesnt excite me. I'd rather have Vivas as the third piece. 

 

That's fine, I like that he is given high marks as a game-caller which I haven't heard for Lee/my son/who knows with Quero.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

37 minutes ago, bmags said:

Here's the flip side of the Dodgers/White Sox trade...

I have more faith in the Tigers GM than Chris Getz.

If he had a package he liked for ERod, I'd try to get some of those players, plus an over the top one for Cease's value.

Emmett Sheehan, Busch, Vargas would be in the ballpark for me, personally.

I also agree that a package should look similar to what you laid out here.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Dream Trade:

Cease and Santos for Cowser/Kjerstad, Mayo and Ortiz

[South Side Hit Men]

36 minutes ago, bmags said:

(I don't know what that package was, was there a rumor of it anywhere?)

I don’t believe it was leaked, though Rodriguez’ demand for a $20M for 1 year extension from the Dodgers to approve the trade was reported.

Interesting that he wanted to lock in $20M for 2024. There is a risk of injury like all pitchers, but perhaps he felt he could perform well next year in Dodgers Stadium / the NL and lock in even a higher guaranteed amount next offseason.

 

[bmags]

21 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Yea but E Rod was a rent, and while there is a definite sellers market aspect to July, there is also a buyer's market in the sense that the seller has to unload or they get nothing.  And as it is, 2 years of Cease is a lot, lot more than 3 months of E Rod.

yes my point is make sure whatever pieces they wanted are in the deal. Shouldn't be a 1:1 design though, I'd assume youd get another best piece, but maybe I'm wrong because Erod was > Cease last year. Control is a fickle beast to value.