Cease To Padres per Passan

[nrockway]

I doubt Cease gets traded before Ohtani signs, maybe Yamamoto too. Let's say the Cubs somehow sign Ohtani, the Cardinals might conclude that Cease isn't the answer to winning the division and might want to stick with their prospects. 

After both guys sign, other teams might get desperate and drive up Cease's value. Red Sox, for example, could probably use Cease and have several prospects that could help us. They'd also probably want (and be able) to resign him. Unless there's some slam dunk deal from a team with no hope for either one of them (Orioles), just wait a month or two. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by nrockway

[oldsox]

10 hours ago, Rey21 said:

It’s gotta be the O’s. Outside of Dalton Rushing I really don’t want anything the Dodgers could be offering. 

O’s, Rangers, Rays, or Phillies for me in that order, I understand you’d like pitching for pitching but I just don’t trust any position player in the Sox system to ever amount to anything so go get them from another team instead.

I like Atlanta's top pitching prospects.

[oldsox]

11 hours ago, Rey21 said:

It’s gotta be the O’s. Outside of Dalton Rushing I really don’t want anything the Dodgers could be offering. 

O’s, Rangers, Rays, or Phillies for me in that order, I understand you’d like pitching for pitching but I just don’t trust any position player in the Sox system to ever amount to anything so go get them from another team instead.

I like Atlanta's top pitching prospects.

[oldsox]

Here's another thought on a potential Cease trade.  Throw in our #1 draft pick mistake Gonzalez!  See what Getz can get.

Edited November 29, 2023 by oldsox

[Rusty_Kuntz]

ATL probably isn't going to trade Smith-Sharver. I think they are planning on having him in the rotation. Past that it's Waldrep who looks like he could be great but is a few years off and can't be the centerpiece. Past that? No one who's been past High A. Just not enough there imo, especially with all pitchers. 

[WestEddy]

43 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Throw in our #1 draft pick mistake Gonzalez!  See what Getz can get.

I like the idea of throwing in a guy nobody in the organization seems to like. I don't think any deal for Cease can be made any sweeter. However, somebody might have taken a shining to Gonzalez on draft day, and he might help Eloy bring back an actual package. Eloy/Gonzalez/Colas could shake loose another AAA catching prospect, an interesting pitcher, or a reliable bat. 

[Rey21]

30 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I like the idea of throwing in a guy nobody in the organization seems to like. I don't think any deal for Cease can be made any sweeter. However, somebody might have taken a shining to Gonzalez on draft day, and he might help Eloy bring back an actual package. Eloy/Gonzalez/Colas could shake loose another AAA catching prospect, an interesting pitcher, or a reliable bat. 

How soon can you trade a recent draftee? Why do I feel like there was an adjustment to how soon you could trade them

[steveno89]

13 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

How soon can you trade a recent draftee? Why do I feel like there was an adjustment to how soon you could trade them

Believe after the seasons ends all drafted guys are fair game to be dealt

 

[caulfield12]

Why would you trade Gonzalez at 25-35 cents on the dollar?

They had 10x more patience with Madrigal comparatively, and we actually have future positional needs at both SS and 2B.

[steveno89]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would you trade Gonzalez at 25-35 cents on the dollar?

They had 10x more patience with Madrigal comparatively, and we actually have future positional needs at both SS and 2B.

Tough to judge Gonzalez so quickly

See how he does this season before throwing him away 

[WestEddy]

32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would you trade Gonzalez at 25-35 cents on the dollar?

I don't know. If there's a GM who's ga-ga over Eloy's ceiling, and has a blocked SS who is better than Gonzalez, maybe the 2 pull back a decent rotation piece and that upgrade over Gonzalez. 

I'm not advocating trading him. It's an interesting idea, seeing nobody seems to like him. Imagine having packaged Zach Collins much earlier, and having turned him into a working piece. 

[GGajewski18]

2 hours ago, Rusty_Kuntz said:

ATL probably isn't going to trade Smith-Sharver. I think they are planning on having him in the rotation. Past that it's Waldrep who looks like he could be great but is a few years off and can't be the centerpiece. Past that? No one who's been past High A. Just not enough there imo, especially with all pitchers. 

Then Atlanta isn't getting Cease.  If they want Cease, Smith-Sharver has to be in the deal unless they include one of their position players currently on the MLB roster and they aren't going to do that.  

[Rusty_Kuntz]

32 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

Then Atlanta isn't getting Cease.  If they want Cease, Smith-Sharver has to be in the deal unless they include one of their position players currently on the MLB roster and they aren't going to do that.  

Agreed. I don't consider them a real player for Cease. 

[nrockway]

3 hours ago, oldsox said:

Here's another thought on a potential Cease trade.  Throw in our #1 draft pick mistake Gonzalez!  See what Getz can get.

why was it a mistake to draft him? 150 plate appearances in RK-A? left-handed bat with plus power who walks a lot and might actually stick at SS. give the kid a chance.

[Chicago White Sox]

I need a real fucking rumor badly.  I did read the Cardinals aren’t done adding SP and would still like to add an impact starter.  Not much else out there at the moment.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, nrockway said:

why was it a mistake to draft him? 150 plate appearances in RK-A? left-handed bat with plus power who walks a lot and might actually stick at SS. give the kid a chance.

Because he doesn’t have power and his soft contact is alarming

[ron883]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I need a real fucking rumor badly.  I did read the Cardinals aren’t done adding SP and would still like to add an impact starter.  Not much else out there at the moment.

I think it makes sense that they will be holding him until the pitching market dries up further. 

[nrockway]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

Because he doesn’t have power and his soft contact is alarming

how do you know about soft contact? do they have statcast in the carolina league or at the ole miss park? he hit 40 home runs in 800 plate appearances in college, that seems like a larger sample size than 30 games in A ball. he changed his swing as a junior and hit for 60 points higher batting average but dropped his home run rate. one might expect a 21-year-old will continue to develop and find the right approach.

who were you taking instead? I would've wanted Bradfield maybe, or Nimmala but they were never taking a high schooler, but Gonzalez was not a bad choice. compare to Brice Matthews and Brayden Taylor, neither one will play shortstop in the MLB and are dubiously better hitters. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by nrockway

[steveno89]

38 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

Then Atlanta isn't getting Cease.  If they want Cease, Smith-Sharver has to be in the deal unless they include one of their position players currently on the MLB roster and they aren't going to do that.  

Not sure I see Atlanta being the preferred trade destination, unless the Sox are hell bent on adding pitching to the system

I really think a template of the Luis Castillo trade return, plus a little bit more considering the additional 20 or so Cease starts a club would get vs. the season and a half of control Castillo had at the time. 

Mariners receive

• RHP Luis Castillo

Reds receive

• SS Noelvi Marte (premium consensus top 30 MLB prospect, #23 MLBPipeline - deal headliner)

• SS Edwin Arroyo (When dealt had a .899 OPS in A ball at age 19, rising prospect now ranked #57 on MLBPipeline - co headliner)

• RHP Levi Stoudt (has not panned out so far, but was considered to have backend starter upside)

• RHP Andrew Moore (lottery relief prospect)

 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Not sure I see Atlanta being the preferred trade destination, unless the Sox are hell bent on adding pitching to the system

I really think a template of the Luis Castillo trade return, plus a little bit more considering the additional 20 or so Cease starts a club would get vs. the season and a half of control Castillo had at the time. 

Mariners receive

• RHP Luis Castillo

Reds receive

• SS Noelvi Marte (premium consensus top 30 MLB prospect, #23 MLBPipeline - deal headliner)

• SS Edwin Arroyo (When dealt had a .899 OPS in A ball at age 19, rising prospect now ranked #57 on MLBPipeline - co headliner)

• RHP Levi Stoudt (has not panned out so far, but was considered to have backend starter upside)

• RHP Andrew Moore (lottery relief prospect)

 

 

Exactly. Most of these SoxTalk proposals I've seen seem to be crazy light.

[Tnetennba]

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I need a real fucking rumor badly.  I did read the Cardinals aren’t done adding SP and would still like to add an impact starter.  Not much else out there at the moment.

Same.  I don’t even care if it’s White Sox related, just give me some baseball news. 

[steveno89]

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Exactly. Most of these SoxTalk proposals I've seen seem to be crazy light.

Light or way too heavy on older prospects 

Cease is their biggest trade chip unless they shockingly decided to auction off Robert. I just cannot see them cashing him in for 25 year old prospects vs. looking to acquire younger, premium talent. 

[bmags]

Winter meetings are next week, we'll be ok.

[fathom]

41 minutes ago, nrockway said:

how do you know about soft contact? do they have statcast in the carolina league or at the ole miss park? he hit 40 home runs in 800 plate appearances in college, that seems like a larger sample size than 30 games in A ball. he changed his swing as a junior and hit for 60 points higher batting average but dropped his home run rate. one might expect a 21-year-old will continue to develop and find the right approach.

who were you taking instead? I would've wanted Bradfield maybe, or Nimmala but they were never taking a high schooler, but Gonzalez was not a bad choice. compare to Brice Matthews and Brayden Taylor, neither one will play shortstop in the MLB and are dubiously better hitters. 

Every scout that saw him in the minors were shocked at how bad he looked.  If you watched his highlights in the minors, there was a ridiculous number of weak flares to left field.  There are a lot of rumors about his inability or refusal to make adjustments already.

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Every scout that saw him in the minors were shocked at how bad he looked.  If you watched his highlights in the minors, there was a ridiculous number of weak flares to left field.  There are a lot of rumors about his inability or refusal to make adjustments already.

I thought it was the opposite. They made drastic changes to his swing immediately. 

The story was that they shouldn't draft someone in the first round only to overhaul his entire swing.