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Look at Ray Ray Run

McDowell says White Sox/Larussa Cheated

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41 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What?

The 1986 and 1987 rosters shared like 90% of the roster. McDowell was teammates with those players. Clearly from his time with the team and organization, and with those players, he learned this and is stating it. I have no idea why anyone thinks that because he didn't play that exact year that he could have no idea what was going on. 

He could be 100% correct but he has no first hand knowledge of it and thus it is hearsay and needs to be taken as such.  If he stated this in the interview fine but it does not appear that he did.  Personally I do not care one way or the other of what happened in the 1980's.  Ty Cobb used to sharpen his spikes to take guys out.  Doesn't make me think any differently of the Tigers today.

Joe Nossek was one of the greatest sign stealer's of all time and is famous for it.  

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36 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Damn Trout got and threw it

the game is very fast. Great announcing too. I've watched that youtube 2-3 times for odd points. The crowd shots are soo good.

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4 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

OK, this makes no sense.  LaRussa last managed the Sox in 1985.  McDowell not drafted until the summer of 1987? 

I was thinking this same thing. Jack McDowell first pitched for the Sox in the minors in 1987. Tony LaRussa was already managing in Oakland by the time McDowell was pitching in the Sox org. I think what he's stating though is that it existed before he was in the org... maybe? I dunno. 

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35 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

I was thinking this same thing. Jack McDowell first pitched for the Sox in the minors in 1987. Tony LaRussa was already managing in Oakland by the time McDowell was pitching in the Sox org. I think what he's stating though is that it existed before he was in the org... maybe? I dunno. 

Yes, that’s what he said in the interview, that the White Sox used the toggle switch in the late 80s, but LaRussa was the one that put it in while he was manager. Whether this is all true, at this point, I don’t care. It makes it too easy to excuse what’s happening in the 2010s, and I don’t want that to happen. The game needs to be cleaned up when it comes to technology available, and if you break the rule, you’re gone.

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This was over 30 years ago.  Statute of limitations is up.  C'mon Black Jack.

Seems a guy is trying to make himself relevant again, and I am no fan of LaRussa. But this is ridiculous. 

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2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

This was over 30 years ago.  Statute of limitations is up.  C'mon Black Jack.

Seems a guy is trying to make himself relevant again, and I am no fan of LaRussa. But this is ridiculous. 

So it doesn't matter? LaRussa was in the league as a head coach in 2011. 

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So it doesn't matter? LaRussa was in the league as a head coach in 2011. 

Considering he didn't say anything for over 30 years, no it doesn't matter. And how about his no denial but wasn't aware of anything at the new park? Did he participate in the cheating or was it 33 year old hearsay? And if he participated, which he said starting pitchers did, he's a cheater as well, but wants to be a hero. 

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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

This was over 30 years ago.  Statute of limitations is up.  C'mon Black Jack.

Seems a guy is trying to make himself relevant again, and I am no fan of LaRussa. But this is ridiculous. 

Exactly.  Further, after reading his comment about how much LaRussa is making now, it seems like he may be a bit jealous. If Jack's  only purpose was to point  out that there has always been cheating in baseball, that is not helpful either.  We should never countenance cheating or allow those who partake in it to ruin the game.

As a White Sox fan,  I don't appreciate Jack throwing the White Sox name into the current  discussion about the 'stros. 

 

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6 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

That was a whole lot of sucking in the late 80s while knowing what pitches were coming.  Yikes. 

Yea that timeline doesn't add up. Unless the Sox were doing it after LaRussa left. Remember McDowell has a bitter history with the organization. 

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21 minutes ago, greg775 said:

La Russa should be investigated for this alleged wrongdoing IMO.

not based on 30 year old hearsay. Waste of resources to investigate that. 

Edited by Eloy Jiménez

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It might not be 30+ years old. LaRussa had a role as an assistant to Dombrowski in Boston. Maybe when the Boston investigation is completed, LaRussa may have had some role in it.  

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8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Players talk; these were his teammates. LaRussa has a history of breaking the rules, and I'll trust McDowell that this was just the beginning of LaRussa's scumbaggery.

Jack is one of my all-time favorite Sox players.  I'm also a fan of his music (the two Stickfigure CDs I have are excellent).  Given the fact that he never played for LaRussa, I can only assume that he heard it from a teammate.

That being said, I'm not going to judge ANYBODY here until one of those teammates confirms Jack's allegations.

I'm really starting to wonder how many teams  do this.  IIRC, the Indians got caught using a camera to steal signs back around 2000... IIRC, Mike Sirotka is the one who called them on it.

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Jack sounds like a gossipy little tramp on The View. Mind your own biz bro. 

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/mlb-cheating-scandal-is-huge-black-eye-for-the-sport-says-reds-pitcher-trevor-bauer-190620760.html
Bauer actually sounding quite reasonable here, especially on this point:

“If you hammer the Houston Astros organization, that makes their organization worth less, it makes everybody’s organization worth less, it’s not good for the business side for all the owners,” Bauer tells Yahoo Finance. “On the player side, it’s really hard to prove who used what, and when, and to what extent. If I’m a [Astros] hitter and I go up there and I don’t want anything to do with this, but someone is banging on the trash can anyway, am I now involved in it? It’s a really slippery slope.”

Based on the difficulty of parsing through which players were guilty of the cheating and which weren’t, Bauer says Manfred has “done a pretty good job of walking a middle ground. There’s going to be people on both sides who say it’s too harsh or it’s not enough, but he’s done a decent job balancing everything.”

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20 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

McDowell says baseball gives guys like LaRussa a pass for decades while targeting others. He says it's not fair and it's hypocritical. Hard to argue with Jack here.

Kudos to Jack for bringing this out.

Harry and Jimmy are smiling somewhere in the great beyond.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, greg775 said:

La Russa should be investigated for this alleged wrongdoing IMO.

What would that accomplish?

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14 hours ago, greg775 said:

La Russa should be investigated for this alleged wrongdoing IMO.

I would prefer to focus on baseball rather than beat this 30+ year old dead horse.  This is Houston's problem....let's not make it ours.

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9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

What would that accomplish?

Give a bunch of irrelevant people a false sense of relevancy in the name of their ego.

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I think we should exhume old comiskey and get to the bottom of this. 

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Maybe it would have been investigated if Jack said something in 1987 or 1988 or 1990 or 1991. The guys excuse for not saying anything is hysterical, he wasn’t sure if the Sox were cheating at the new park. Now he coaches a D 2 team that can use some publicity and he is going to play hero. He also seemed to suggest LaRussa was the reason Canseco and McGwire used steroids. I can’t stand LaRussa as much as anyone, but this is ridiculous stuff. 
 

35 states have a statute of limitations for rape which IMO is far more serious action than a light in the OF for a team that didn’t win. And they all would have expired with this timeline. 
 

I am pretty sure Black Jack himself has cheated. It sounds like he may have participated in the “scandal” he mentioned. I wouldn’t doubt if he scuffed a ball or two.....Maybe they should just suspend everybody, and call the next season off.

Edited by Dick Allen

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18 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

This was over 30 years ago.  Statute of limitations is up.  C'mon Black Jack.

Seems a guy is trying to make himself relevant again, and I am no fan of LaRussa. But this is ridiculous. 

I'm a big fan of McDowell, but this does sound like he wants attention again. Years ago, Milt Pappas wanted to be noticed so he admitted grooving pitches to Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle when they were chasing Babe Ruth in 1961. So, to get attention, Pappas admitted he was a cheater. I don't know what McDowell is trying to achieve here, but I'm not all that impressed.

MLB is facing some big problems now, and it doesn't help if the picture gets muddied. We know that players and others push the envelope. Now, how do we decide how far that envelope can be pushed?

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