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I'm starting to believe again. Everyone's under the impression we're a pawn but i think the Dodgers are the leverage vehicle here.

I see Peavy has created a new account and hired a writer.

If you want my advice For a little slice of Bryce To entice Bryce For the right price You have to be twice as nice To be precise and concise Don't be cold as ice Or else no dice !

Mind. Blown. I think I just used more periods than he has in his last 300 posts.

Are you seriously concerned about moving Tim Anderson for a Bogaerts?

I did win a Sox Tim Sanderson bobblehead on the Sox podcast of Garfein. My question was answered on there by them and I won that lol. Never win much in life but I’ll take it lol. My question was about the national media shitting on the white sox as a destination.

yes, and he also said something about how him and Abreu talked about the entire 40 man roster has to step up to get "things done" (in reference to the Sox having a good season), including anyone that's coming in with us.

This thread isn't meant to be a concession to Harper and Manny, I still think we have a pretty good shot at locking down Manny, but in the event that the Sox miss out on both of them, and maybe even Grandal and Keuchel, the Sox may start the 2019 season with still a TON of money left unused. So, hopefully that leads Hahn down some creative paths to adding players, via a SECONDARY free agent market. Buying big contracts off of other teams. The idea being that the team looking to offload their contracts on to us would have to also throw in some prospects to help facilitate the move (unless you're the Reds, then you GIVE AWAY those prospects for the right absorb other team's salary dumps). Here is a list of players on non-contending teams, that might be available for the Sox to grab, in order of AAV. Consider this list how much you would be "signing" these players for right now. I excluded complete albatross contracts or guys at a position that wouldn't make sense for the Sox. SP Zack Grienke (35) - 3 yrs/$104.5M SP Felix Hernandez (33) - 1 yr/$27.8M RF Jason Heyward (29) - 5 yrs/$118.5M SP Jordan Zimmermann (33) - 2 yrs/$50M OF Jacoby Ellsbury (35) - 2 yrs/$47.3M SP Johnny Cueto (33) - 3 yrs/$68M OF Alex Gordon (35) 1 yr/$24M SP Jeff Samardzija (34) 2 yrs/$39.6M 3B Evan Longoria (33) 4 yrs/$72.5M SP Mike Leake (31) 2 yrs/$36M SP Wei-Yin Chen (34) 2 yrs/$42M 3B Kyle Seager (31) 3 yrs/$60.5M The rest of the list I used is here..... https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/average/ Ok, now FanGraphs has put together an awesome system of determining the dollar amount to attach to each prospect, based on their FV. And they've translated that calculation to their top 131 list. Now this list is as of sometime during the 2018 season, so these values will change since they are making their way through the 2019 updated lists, but this will at least provide some sort of idea. So I am going to work under the idea that $8M equals 1 WAR, so use STEAMER to figure their value. The difference between their contract and their STEAMER projected value will be what the team will have to pay the Sox to cover the gap. Feel free to make your own calculations using this Fangraphs resource..... https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/an-update-to-prospect-valuation/ Just using the list above, I'm going to copy and paste that list below, but add in the potential prospects + cash it may cost the team for the Sox to take on that salary dump. So I'm subtracting the $8M/WAR for what STEAMER says they will produce in 2019, and then cutting that number in half for each year thereafter for regression, with 1 WAR or $8M being the lowest any player will go. Heyward, due to his age, will maintain his STEAMER projections until age 31 season, then he will lose half each year. Grienke, for example, is projected for 3.3 fWAR in 2019. So his 2019 value will be about $27M. Then that will cut to about $13M in 2020, and $8M in 2021. So his projected value for 3 years will be $48M. That means he is a net-negative of about $56M. The Dbacks trade will reflect the $56M difference. SP Zack Grienke (35) - 3 yrs/$104.5M - For SP Jon Duplantier + $30M SP Felix Hernandez (33) - 1 yr/$27.8M - For OF Kyle Lewis + $15M RF Jason Heyward (29) - 5 yrs/$118.5M For C Miguel Amaya, 2B Nico Hoerner + $20M SP Jordan Zimmermann (33) - 2 yrs/$50M For SP Matt Manning + $15M OF Jacoby Ellsbury (35) - 2 yrs/$47.3M For SP Albert Abreu + $15M SP Johnny Cueto (33) - 3 yrs/$68M For CF Heliot Ramos + $25M OF Alex Gordon (35) 1 yr/$24M For RF Kyle Isbel + $10M SP Jeff Samardzija (34) 2 yrs/$39.6M For CF Heliot Ramos + $5M 3B Evan Longoria (33) 4 yrs/$72.5M For CF Heliot Ramos, SS Marco Luciano + $10M SP Mike Leake (31) 2 yrs/$36M For OF Kyle Lewis + $10M SP Wei-Yin Chen (34) 2 yrs/$42M For SP Braxton Garrett + $10M 3B Kyle Seager (31) 3 yrs/$60.5M For OF Kyle Lewis, P Logan Gilbert + $10M With the Mariners it was hard, since they have 0 guys on FG top 131, so I just took Kyle Lewis, their #1 prospect, and assumed his value would be around $5M, instead of $9M for least valuable guy on FG list. And then I also chose not to assume any teams would give up their elite prospects in a salary dump. For the Giants, even though Joey Bart's $30M evaluation would have fit this scenario, I can't imagine the Giants would give him up just to free up a contract. So I went for Heliot Ramos who was valued at $16M instead, and then threw in money. Are any of those deals ones you guys would want the Sox to take? Got any ideas of your own using the links? If Hahn can't spend Jerry's money on FA this winter, I hope he is able to find creative ways like this to buy some prospects with that money.

What if that's peavy44!?

You (and many others, in the media and otherwise) are getting too caught up in trying to fit the Sox’ tactical decisions into a paradigm. There is value in looking to the past to add context to the present, but the present is unique, so it is foolish to eliminate a course of action simply because it hasn’t played out before. For example, you can look to past free agent acquisitions and conclude that it doesn’t make sense to build a winner through free agency, but in no past instance was Manny Machado available. And in no past instance was the White Sox roster in this type of a position. If it makes sense to add the guy, then it makes sense to add the guy, even if it truly is the exception to a rule. And it also doesn’t mean the strategy has to shift as a result. Sometimes exceptional circumstances present themselves, and a shrewd operator looks for ways to take advantage.

This doesn't seem like a real fact.

Phillies. Cubs if they can move Heyward and maybe Chatwood. Bryce returning to the Nationals is also an option, IMO.

As Chicagoan who moved to the Socal area 3 years ago, I wouldn't want to live in LA either.

Clearly no way to prove this, but I'm willing to bet every team in baseball had Fulmer ranked higher than Buehler. Buehler's health was always an issue, and I have a very, very hard time seeing the Sox picking someone that that high that they know will likely need TJS sooner than later.

Yonder also said he's already started training with Abreu. As for Manny, he said it's obviously Manny's decision but he of course will try to push him to the Sox.

The hat he’s wearing is clearly too small for his head. Great catch, this is a done deal.

But he would be our dbag ?

I don’t care what anyone says, Harper is totally signing with us.

Well this board has gone completely doom and gloom tonight, has the grinch come out and stole everyone’s Christmas already? Are we destined for failure if we don’t overpay for Machado or Harper? Baseball is a long game, one season does not define the career of a prospect. If this team is making you that depressed, you should step away from this board and come back in a year (Parkman you seriously never have anything positive to write about). This season hasn’t been great in terms of the player development, but there are positives and that constantly being overlooked - Cease went from a destined bullpen guy to a TOR type pitcher, Rutherford bounced back decently from an awful first year, guys like Basabe, Adolfo, and Dunning (amongst others) showing significant improvements. Eloy was actually more impressive this year than last, but I guess people are tired of placing hope on him already. Injury bug bit us pretty bad, but that shouldn’t stop the kids from bouncing back next season when health (with maybe only Burger having long term impact from injury). The only top prospect you could really write off right now is Fulmer. On the ML side Moncada and Giolito has shown signs of being quality MLB players, even though they may not be perennial all stars and they should still be MLB regulars cost controlled for the next 5 years. Lopez at least looks like a solid future #3. I think had injuries not hit, this season would be in line with how player development would play out for most organizations save the Braves. It’s not all doom and gloom as guys are making it seem after losing hope on MM and Harper.

First off, I know exactly one Cubs fan, and that's my brother who lives in another part of the country. Therefore, I hope the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers dominate that division and the Reds don't put up a winning record for 20 years. I know tanking pisses people off, but acquiring shitty contracts for marginal improvement so that other teams can swing for the fences is embarrassing. Screw the Reds- although I feel sorry for their fans, because they're still going to suck. Second, let Harper go to LA. I wanted him, but the truth is, he's not a $40 million player. Two years of an OPS over .900, and only one which was actually a full season. Limited defensive value. And there have been so many FA disasters in recent years. Look at Heyward, Pujols, Cabrera, Davis, Sandoval, Hanley Ramirez, Desmond, Fowler, Gordon, Cespedes, etc. If we're dubious about Harper's value now, how do you think we're gonna feel in eight years when he's 34 and not even playing RF anymore? A $40 million DH? No thanks. Third, I don't blame anyone for this, but we've gotten really caught up in the shiny object of the last two months, but before that, did we really think we had any chance at these guys? No. It doesn't speak well of Hahn to be inflating our hopes, but two months ago, we still thought we were gonna be dominant in a few years. Why? Because of Eloy, Kopech, Cease, Robert, Madrigal, 2019 #3, Moncada, Lopez, Gio (?), Collins, and so on. So let's remember the main allure of our franchise as it stands now. 3B looks like a hole for the foreseeable future, so Machado would be nice, but if that fails (and I'm not yet certain it will), let's not play the games of 2014-15 and sign the second rate guys. Save the cash for later, and focus on our organization's primary strength right now. I don't think the future looks grim for us at all.

No offense taken, you're a nobody on a message board. Until they sign someone to a contract larger than $68 million, I am firmly in the "Well, we tried guys" camp when this is all said and done. Having interest and actually putting pen to paper is two very different things. Until it happens, I am on the skeptical side.

When the heck did that happen?

Please learn that Cole Hamels and Jason Hammel are 2 different people on 2 different teams.

Gun to my head I’d say no, but I definitely think it’s a possibility and can’t think of a better way to instantly make the White Sox relevant again.

I agree, I want to be a believer that we get one but have my reservations based on our past history. I also get how everyone would like to tell the national media to go screw themselves but in all fairness the White Sox have no one to blame but themselves for being in this situation, not the media.

Wonder if that'd help fix his speech impediment?

I hope #5 was in jest.

Do you really think they'll get both? At this point I'd be ecstatic if they just got one.

Don’t think they frees up enough to get Harper if they take on salary.

100% agree. And honestly, I think we land both Harper & Machado and then tell east coast biased media types like Chris Russo they can suck a big fat you know what.

What young players are you referring to need at bat's?

Then he isn't going to the Dodgers. You don't get drafted out of high school with Scott Boras as your agent, win an MVP award in your early 20s, and keep Boras as your agent the entire time to give the highest spending team in baseball a discount of hundreds of millions of dollars.

I personally care more about winning baseball game than nationwide coverage and publicity. Manny is a better baseball player and a better fit. If you can only have one, MM is the far better option. Of course both would be better.

You just brought me back to Frank Thomas day where a large chunk of those jagbag yankee fans didn't stand for the ceremony.

All he ever seems to have *scoops* for is things that are positive for the Cubs. Never seems to have any sources that point to anything other than the Cubs have unlimited money, are going to make a huge splash, and everyone wants to play for them.

Exactly. I would overpay for Harper more than machado

Gotta say I'm very impressed with Alonso after that interview. Very down to earth guy. Team oriented. Maybe feeling comfortable he has a good year. Honestly I wanna see what abreu can do with a good lineup. If healthy and a good lineup I think Abreu can be scary

Another reason why Kluber + Pollock makes way more sense for them.

I dunno man, maybe let's reference something that happened 30 years ago and a few pop stars then we can get around to it

If only we could sign Harper and then loan him out to dodgers for this year.

Not sure how the math would work but would consider Heyward, Montgomery and Bote + $$$.

I’m gonna go ahead and say this is with out a doubt, 100 percent, the complete opposite of the truth.

Uuuhhh, how exactly? Really seems like he wanted a west coast team, and no amount of money makes that happen. Especially when you can only offer a capped amount that more desirable geographical locations could also offer.

He didn’t. But the fact remains until proven otherwise that the best way for the Sox to build winning teams is either drafting that talent or signing Latin Americans, not playing on the free agent market. You’re simply never going to achieve a justifiable return on investment when you’re paying 10-15% above what the second most desperate team is willing to shell out. It didn’t get the Mariners anywhere, and the Rangers’ eventual playoff success had nothing to do with A-Rod.

No comment to those two sentences. That said, thank you to the owner and the mods for their work. I don't think the board has been out of control lately even in the Machado thread. Some people think we truly have a chance at Manny and Harper, others think we've never had an iota of a chance and we're being used by agents. I tend to think we won't get either but I could be mistaken. Cheers. Happy Holidays. Watch "It's a Wonderful Life" or Alastair Sim's Scrooge to get you in the holiday mood. GO SOX!

Wouldn’t it have been somewhat cheaper to add Carlos Beltran to our front office?

What was wrong with the Quintana trade? You don't like Eloy and Cease ?

One word: injury. A 10 year deal with player opt outs gives a guarantee if injuries occur but allow them to get a better deal if they career goes well.

Offering a staggering contract, reading comprehension isn't your friend huh

We were never getting Harper or Machado anyways 6 yrs 68 million.. largest contract this organization has ever given... and you guys really believed we were going to go 300-350 on someone It was never happening