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I think there's a lot of people here stuck in a Sox echo chamber of despair. If you go on other baseball websites/message boards the Sox are almost a consensus pick along with SD to be one of the next great teams. If rival fans are seeing it so are the players. All Jerry has to do is open the pocket book, this isn't the Cleveland Browns.

Felix Hernandez

Oh you were being serious. I thought you were doing a satirical telephone thing.

I'm not drawing any conclusions based on just this, as there are hundreds of variables that I need to look at further, but if you wan to do similarity scores on these pitchers you see the following comparisons: 1. Bumgarner - Closest similarity score is CC Sabathia; who had a similar spike early and mid, only to fall off a cliff for 350 innings and then rebound to a level that was about 70% of his previous highs. CC's return to being slightly above average lasted for roughly 490 innings. He never regained form following his initial decline. 2. Odorizzi - If you remove the injury year, Odorizzi's closest comp of regression is Anibal Sanchez. Sanchez was average and then had a five peak year run where his WAR/IP stayed above .02 WAR/IP. Odorizzi would be in year 2 of his spike - it doesn't mean he has three years left of productivity it just means that's the closest equal. 3. Wheeler - Well, this one is kind of tricky. Wheeler could head in one of two likely directions as he has to comps through his IP total and one of those comps is an OOOOO la la. One comp through his IP total is Max Scherzer ironically enough. Wheeler is in year 2 of his growth post surgery, and he has seen a steady increase in WAR/IP year over year at the same rate as Scherzer. Obviously, Scherzer is the biggest outlier of our data set and continued to grow. Wheeler is certainly not guaranteed to do that but man it sure is nice to dream. His other is Johnny Cueto, who is still a nice comp in regards to age regression. In general, I'd say I feel most comfortable with Wheeler of the three. There's risk there, but you can dream on Wheeler like you can't on the other two IMO. Wheeler is trending up for all the right reasons; while Odorizzi has some artificial WAR escalators.

It would have been but it does make the assumption that the Dodgers would have accepted it. They actually had a multitude of starting pitching.

I’ve been following this guy closely for a few years now. Even saw him play two games live when I was in Japan. Pros: - legitimately good plate discipline; can do damage on both fastballs and breaking balls - left handed, true power hitter - should come cheap because he really wants to play in mlb, And has a good relationship with his team. I’m guessing 3-4 years at $4-6mm - he has played well in WBC and other exhibition tourneys, suggesting he can handle MLB velo Cons: - he’s not a good defender. Not a Palka-like butcher, but it hurts to have mediocre defenders in both corners, and if Abreu is back, there’s no room at DH when Vaughn arrives. - he’s been good the past couple years, but he hasn’t been able to repeat his monster 2016-2017 years. Those years made it seem like he was a transcendent hitter, the last two haven’t quite been there. So it’s possible he is already in decline. Overall, he’ll be entering his age 28 season, and he looks like a tick worse than what Hideki Matsui was when he came over at age 29. My opinion is that the upside here isnt really all that tremendous because of the defensive profile, but the cost will be low enough and our need great enough for a short term offensive fix, that I’d like to see the White Sox pursue this. That said, Akiyama might be a better fit.

I just cannot being myself to care what some sleazebag attention whore has to say about a sleazebag billionaire. He’s probably telling the truth but honestly what does it matter. We’ve all known this to be case.

What a ridiculously over the top comment. To compare a lifelong loyalty towards a baseball team to a drug or alcohol addiction is beyond belief. The Sox ARE a part of my life, but a small part compared to other more important things. If you want to associate something to an addiction, how about some on this board who waste countless hours speculating on topics like proposed trades, free agent signings, and other meaningless threads.

I don't know who you are, and am quite happy about it.

Do you ever actually post about baseball, or just critique posts?

So he basically repeated what I and a couple of other posters have known and been saying here over the past four days. And this whole thing is a big nothingburger, and most likely a publicity stunt.

They gave him May and half of June to show he belonged. Suffice to say, he did not show that he was going to hit .280 and steal 40 bases

So for the last couple months I feel like I've done a lot of damage to my reputation as a poster. I've put a lot of things out there that I wish I didn't, and it took me until this weekend to realize what was going on. I'm pretty messed up right now. Not only am I dealing with being on the autistic spectrum, I've been dealing with chronic pain for the better part of 20 years. About two years ago, it started to get really bad and it got so bad by the end of 2018 that I couldn't do anything anymore other than sit at home. I tried to fight through it as much as I could but it just kept getting worse. In April, I decided to have surgery to hopefully correct my issues. I've been dealing with the after effects of it(Physical therapy and another surgery) for the better part of the last 6 months. I'm not handling it well. I haven't been able to do much of anything for 6 months. Even so, the PT isn't far enough along that I can work or go do things I enjoy yet. Please forgive me for being an uber grouch for the last 3 months or so because I'm pretty pissed off about how long this is taking and the rate of progress. I'm going to try not to post angry anymore and sit on them for 30 mins before submitting. I'm a lot more testy and assholish than normal right now. I have just started to realize I've been posting angry way too much. Please be kind. Cheers, Parkman.

I wonder how much it would take to get Avi? He's better than JD in the outfield. Could offer decent production at a FRACTION of the price. DH him if need be. I'm officially on team bring-back-Avi

The funny thing his OPS is still "only" .770 after a 4/5. On a yearly basis, that wouldn't be enough to warrant full-time play with his defense. Of course, in the playoffs, you're facing some of the best pitching in baseball, so it's quite acceptable. It does make you THINK if Avi can be a clean-up hitter for a team on the verge of knocking out the best team in baseball...why not invest another one-year deal into him instead of the dregs we signed and brought in this past offseason? If ANYONE was likely to be open to staying for the long/er term with the White Sox, it was DEFINITELY going to be this dude.

If Martinez is still a Boras client, I’ll give this about a 5% chance.

Thanks Ron. I do love me some Avi Garcia. I'd be so happy if they brought him back. If I lived in Chicago I'd buy season tickets for he and Jose anchoring the young lineup and I'm serious. We could get Avi for 2 years 12 million total probably. JD Martinez is gonna cost so much it'll make our heads spin (caveat: I do not care bout Jerry's wallet shrinking a bit, still bang for the buck Avi might give u that and spend the $$ on pitching, pitching, pitching). p.s: Avi is cleanup hitter on a playoff team tonight for an organization that likes advanced stats, hmmmm....

Have we signed many Boras guys? In 2004 Kenny Williams said in the Trib: "I do not expect to sign any Scott Boras clients. Let's just say that we both respectfully agree to disagree on the value of his players." I like the idea of Martinez but I have to laugh at the similarities to Abreu. He's 32. Had a 3.3 WAR a bit higher than Jose. He hit 36 HRs and 105 RBI with a BA of .304, about 25 points higher than Jose. Good old fashioned stats; advanced stats shouldn't have the advanced stat people doing cartwheels at 32. I'll sign him though. He fits the greg profile. PRODUCTION in terms of HRs and RBIs is nice. Funny ... prove me wrong but I have a feeling folks won't be mentioning his age at all while continuing to mention Jose's. Why? JD is the sexy unknown acquisition; Jose old news of some of the advanced statters.

I feel the exact same way.

Agreed. Although I’m guessing that would take Grandal off the table.

I don't think I would really be categorized as either of those "kinds of Sox fans". I didn't grow up in Chicago, so I don't have the hate for the Cubs most Sox fans have. But I also don't follow the Cubs as much as some Sox fans may, which leads to alot of posters (and likely Sox fans in general) suggesting acquiring Cubs players like.....multiple times per day on here. Q would be a great fit. I believe you and I have already discussed him in another thread so I won't rehash that, but he isn't going to be a FA. Schwarber would be fine DH addition, but he only has 2 years of control, meh on base numbers and has struggles to hit his weight. If he were a FA he'd a decent DH option. Heyward would be a fine as cheap 1 year stop gap in RF, but he has 4 years and $86M left on his deal! There is absolutely no reason why the Sox should blow a bunch of the flexibility they've worked so hard to get to acquire an average player getting paid like a star.

I mean historically. The answer is there are none, because despite persistent myths to the contrary major free agents make the economically rational decision and prioritize real money over factors like which stadium is less "boring." The White Sox have lost out on free agents - Machado, Harper, Tanaka, etc. - because they have offered less money than the teams that won the bidding war. Machado is a good example. The White Sox were in the lead with 250 million until they were outbid by a (perennial-losing, middle-market) team that offered 300. He liked 300 million in guaranteed money more than 250 in guaranteed money because he and his agent are human people.

mmhhmmm

Money and winning are what attracts. The Sox usually come up short with both. It would be very unusual for a major free agent to take significantly less money to come to a team with the White Sox recent history. MLB players love Chicago. They couldn't care less about Bridgeport. They just drive there 81 times a year. They don't live there. I'm pretty sure most Sox players live in those buildings built on that old par 3 golf course by Randolph and Wacker and Columbus. I'm sure they would prefer to play in a full stadium, but the amount of their paycheck trumps that. And there is no problem with Guaranteed Rate Field. The playing surface is supreme, the clubhouse new, and other amenities, modern. Unless it's a flyball pitcher, something the Sox probably wouldn't bother to pursue, the stadium is not an issue. And endorsement money with MLB players pales in comparision to those in other sports. Yet, in Chicago, even with the Sox, you probably have a chance to make more money off the field than many other places.

This is working off some assumption that Cole requires frequent changes to remain where he is - which just isn't true. His pitch distribution changed a lot when he first got to Houston but has remained constant since. His release point has remained constant as well. It's not as if he is making constant changes game to game, or even year to year in houston. He'll go where the most money as every free agent does.

People are obsessed with this. So annoying.

Unless the Cub are paydown Heyward's deal to around $10M per, no chance in hell am I doing that deal. FWIW, that would mean that Cubs would be sending $45M with. We don't need to be taking on the Cubs trash.

What free agents turned down extra compensation offered by the Chicago White Sox in favor of “better ratings, “better attendance,” “more exciting neighborhood” or “more exciting stadium” offered by another team?

They could address pretty much every area of concern with a good player and be at 110 so i wouldn't be mad at that. Wheeler, Smith, RF, JD Martinez would get you to about 110.

No worries, the best part about this is that from over my shoulder, it looks like I'm doing my job. ? Slow few days at work before the storm hits me on Thursday/Friday.

His point was that there is no chance the Cubs don't pick up his option.

LOL

Q is no going to be a FA. How is this still being discussed.

Since I'm out for a "6th starter" type, someone to cover 100-ish innings and maybe even throw out of the bullpen a few times, yeah I like the idea of Hill also.

The White Sox have a payroll of 50 million dollars after arbitration. Saying "out of their price range" on people not named Gerrit Cole is dumb, especially when talking about pitchers in their mid 30's. Also Rich Hill would be a terrible signing. That writer is being an edgelord.

Could get behind the idea of any of the 3 I previously proposed bringing in Q AND Hamels for the right price Q>Hamels>Hill for me I expect Cole, Strasburg, Bumgarner, Keuchel, Ryu will all be out of price range and don't want to overpay any of them nor Wheeler or Odorizzi...The group of Q/Hamels/Miley appeals more to me with Kopech, Gio, Cease in the picture, Rodon coming back, and Lopez still here...Hell, wouldn't shock me to see Nova back for pennies with this FO (hope not) Ideally want Cole/Strasburg but won't happen Gio-Q-Hamels-Lopez-Cease looks pretty damn solid with Kopech and Rodon returning too (And Dunning at some point), can compete now AND ease these guys back in/compete long term

Thanks for the writeup. Sounds like he's Palka with plate discipline. What worries me is how the power would translate and how he'd adjust MLB pitching that's evolved quite a bit just the past few years. On top of that, he's contact rate seemed like red flag in 2019. That said, I agree Akiyama should be a better fit here, I hope the Sox make a serious run at him.

I have to say that while I initially was upset with way NBA handled it, at this point it may turn out they may very well have worked behind scenes to prevent brash firing of Morey, then after a way-too coddling press release, silver puts out the press release affirming nba staff and players rights to expression. China says that's not allowed for China, and to this point Silver is saying they will live with the consequences. We'll see what happens next. The idea of china continuing to dictate what stands individual Americans can take (on media not even accessible in china) for access to their market is absurd, and I would hope there can be some solidarity shown by other companies if NBA really starts getting restricted, but I won't hold my breath. This is easy for me to say, but yeah, if nba players/coaches aren't going to be able to criticize anything in china without the chinese government intervening then: https://slate.com/culture/2019/10/china-houston-rockets-nba-controversy.html While I support players ability to get their fair share of the wealth that accumulates in the NBA, I don't particularly care if they are 50 millionaires or 100 millionaires, and so yeah I'd really hope we see some stand up here for what is right. That said, I get why this would be scary. If it was a player that stepped in it you'd have the players union, because it was Morey it makes it all pretty crazy.

Good catch. I knew he was the IFA too, forgot to exclude the posting fee.

Sounded fine to me. He has known Reinsdorf since he was a kid. He basically said it was an "anti-tanking" thing. He made it seem like Reinsdorf's plan was to finish 1st if possible but not worse than 2nd because it kept the fanbase hungry and thinking there was a chance for improvement. He said that Reinsdorf like most owners, wouldn't choose winning over making money or breaking even though. Reinsdorf has always wanted to win on his terms at his profit margins. Samson basically just confirmed that.

that was a completely different time and place. the way teams were built (and bought) and postseason alignment was radically different then. The yankees were able to sign ANYONE of value and if they needed depth, they just went to their farm team the Kansas city athletics and poached what they wanted. If there was a two division format then, the sox would have made several ALCS type playoff rounds.

David Sampson is on the Score right now. He sounds like an idiot, still.

I agree with you Greg. Teams/Owners should not be telling their fanbase to eat shit after a 4 year rebuild to eat more shit after a year or 2 of success. There is no reason this team with a few contracts shouldnt compete for 4 or 5 years. If Jerry wants to just hoard all of his shekels instead of making a splash, the good news is that he is approaching his mid 80's. The only people preventing this team from taking the next step is this front office and ownership. There are players that will be available that will dramatically improve our chances if Kenny/Rick/Jerry stop playing games. We'll see, I am anticipating a couple big signings. If not, then i won't be emptying my wallet out at double digit Sox games next year.

Yep. I always thought it was weird that my dad was a Yankees fan (he grew up in upstate NY) but didn’t really care about them one way or another. He taught me a lot about baseball and he supported my budding love of the White Sox when I was growing up but Yankee games didn’t dominate the TV and he showed no real emotion about them. I think the ‘94 strike kinda wiped him out, and I don’t think I’ll be as chilled about as he is, but I definitely understand now how fandom changes from boyhood into manhood. Honestly, I think one of the most beautiful aspects about the game for me these days is how it ties my whole life together. I’ve had a whacky life and I’ve been all over the world, but for all the differences, the Sox have always been there. Whether it was living in Chicago and secretly listening to them on my portable radio after bedtime, or living in Spain and having stateside relatives send me game tapes, or being in a faraway state at college using this newfangled Facebook thing to gather fellow Sox fans for the World Series (unsuccessfully, I might add), or fiddling with the radio at an airfield in southern Afghanistan so I could listen to Chris Sale dominate some poor bastards, the Sox have always been there tying it together. So I think that’s a cool impact on my own life, and I’m grateful for it.

Sorry to hear about your divorce, but nobody should be that addicted to a sports team. If you can’t walk away from something if it negatively impacts your life (a bad relationship, alcohol, gambling, etc.), you have a problem. The “I don’t have a choice” line that I’m reading here is bullshit. Some of you need to man up and take control of your lives.

It's too bad people don't realize following a sports team is a completely voluntary form of entertainment. The team itself has absolutely no obligation to you as a fan.

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/35173-front-page-twins-alds-game-2-recap-nothing-works-twins-lose-12th-straight-to-yankees/# This thread is full of schadenfreude laughs. I especially like the one that says “This is confirmed. Yankee Stadium smells like the armpit of the older brother who never let you win.”

Fuck this boomer b****ing, if the pitchers are gonna pump their fists and stare people down and talk shit then they need to take their fair share when it goes the other way. this IS the way this game should be played, it's fun

He would be a dream acquisition. Playoff experience, amazing production and you move Yo to RF where he would be pretty great. Solves all the issues other than catcher. But at that price it won't happen.

Other than the creation of Moan4Yoan, the gift that keeps on giving...