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Pro tip: when arguing online, larger font always wins. Bolded is just the cherry W on top

I mean I believe literally every organization can be the one to bid high enough to make the White Sox uncomfortable.

This may be the first time I’ve ever thought “wow, I agree” to one of your posts.

Why give up assets when you can buy those pieces for nothing but money when going young was supposed to open up your financial flexibility?

Based on what exactly? What have the Twins ever done to lead you to believe that they would be the organization to bid high enough to make the Sox uncomfortable?

Like the move? Like it was a possibility at all he would be non-tendered? lol

I wish people understood - it was not a bad contract at all. It was bad for the team that signed it, but it was not a bad contract. He has been worth 21 fWAR over the first 6 years of his deal - people would pay $200 million to get that performance on the free agent market. If you're a team right on the cusp of contending and you signed that deal, Robinson Cano could easily have put you into the playoffs in several of those seasons. That's exactly the kind of production you'd hope for, and you're signing a 10 year deal rather than a 6 year deal because the back few years allow you to spread out the cost, so that you're not paying him $50 million a year in the first 3 years of the deal when he's the most productive. The problem was not the contract. The steroids thing isn't nice, but aside from that. The problem was that the Mariners, the team signing him, did not have enough in the tank to get anywhere close to the playoffs when they added him. They weren't an 87 win team, they were a 71 win team that made a 16 win jump and it wasn't enough to make the playoffs. It was a bad contract for the Mariners, but a legitimate team signing him could have easily been content with their trophy even if they had to figure out what to do with the last few years of the deal.

You keep posting it as fact, which you just got called out on. And what the fuck is that last paragraph

Caufield gonna be Caufield.

JR people will come to see him. They went to Wrigley to see him. And get this. He is in line with our cost projections. I say we sign him and get some lightning in the bottle. We can then go all in on Cole and show him that our incentive based plan with deferred payments and team options is more sensible than up front cash. Think of all the taxes we can save him when we pay him less.

It's become a joke.

Colome would net you Pederson without a doubt IMO.

Who cares about Frare and Burr? Are they really contributors on a good team? Roster at 36 hints at several additions, as there still are more than a couple on the roster they can dump and no one will remember them a year from now.

If the White Sox are at 4/80 and he's asked for 5/100 and they haven't gotten this done somehow then someone in this org isn't doing this correctly.

So It seems the trading INTL $ (that they couldn't use) for relief pitcher approach didn't work out so well.

If the sox can't sign the third best pitcher on the FA market after shedding nearly all salary on a 3 year rebuild, then I'm not optimistic. At this point I'm less interested in payroll efficiency than stacking wins. If you want efficiency, don't play FA and you better have a damn good intl operation and PD staff. Sox have neither, so I don't want them saying "oh we would have signed wheeler at 5/100 but 6/120 is too much."

If they miss on Wheeler and end up with Dallas Keuchel I'm going to be consumed with rage.

@Sleepy Harold da god, folks

I don’t think there are any players I would trade Luis Robert for right now considering our roster and farm.

I don't know how Tim is going to bounce back, but it's going to be hard to consider them a "terrible defensive team" next year. They'll have a very good defensive 3rd baseman (top 5 last year), an elite defensive 2nd baseman (Madrigal), a very good defensive catcher, a very good defensive CF'er, and the talent at SS to be above average to good at the position. If Tim shows some consistency next year, you're talking about having ++ defenders at every important defensive positions (SS, CF, Catcher, 2nd and 3rd). LF and RF could be really bad, and 1st base won't be good until Abreu is DH'ing full time but with McCann and Grandal playing some over there it should be better.

For the Sox to be competitive, they don't need to trade any of their top prospects, or even think outside the box. Sign Wheeler. Sign Betances. Sign Calhoun or some other short term RF. If Hahn wants to float a Stiever/Walker/Collins type package to try to bring in a young impact RF, I'm fine with that. But trading Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, etc. shouldn't even be crossing his mind right now.

And I hope that plan B is to go all in on Cole or Strasburg and then go cheap for RF.

Chris Archer sucks Dallas Keuchel sucks

Agreed and would have loved to see Madrigal dealt for a controllable, quality starting pitcher.

I actually view it differently than you. I dont think they're in stealth mode at all. I think the longer this goes, the worse our chances are with Wheeler. I think some other team either outbid us, or this team dithers about while another team swoops in to land Wheeler. I think Jerry, et. Al still have the fear of longer-term pitching contracts. I really hope I'm wrong, and Wheeler is in our rotation in 2020. Prove me wrong, Jerry.

Unprecedented “massive amount of financial flexibility”. AND the Sox are a major market team, with a shiny, new TV deal in place. To NOT be in on either Cole or Strasburg dismisses outright Hahn’s claim that the “money will be spent” on premium talent when the time is right. If they don’t compete for the Coles and Strasburgs of the world now, they never will, which would call into question their true commitment to winning. Wheeler is a nice piece, but he’s not on the level of the other two.

We have a massive amount of financial flexibility. It has to be Cole, Strasburg or Wheeler. I don't want to see option C or D unless its to augment what we know to be getting a primary ToR pitcher.

A good organization could've asked Moose how he would feel about playing other positions . It's not like DH or 2nd base turned out so great last year. He also could've backed up Abreu at 1st. Paid just as much for Yonder Alonso as the Brewer did for Moose. Friends and Family plan hurt the Sox more than missing out on Machado.

This.

Hamels and Keuchel will get way too much money (on a per year basis) to be a White Sox consideration (as a pairing)...and both are closer to "all-in" moves for 2020 than pitchers you'd want to have on your roster for the heart of the contention window from 2021-2023.

Wheeler.

They played in three straight NLCS'. I wouldn't call that underwhelming.

And I am the complete opposite, I would take him on my team in a second, I would be surprised if they got him.

I agree sort of with some of it. And I argued in the past for signing more free agents even in the non competitive window. This is so White Sox check it: While the Sox were in the rebuilding mode prices on free agents were down down down. I was begging for the Sox to sign Moustakas and JD Martinez to take advantage of the market Of course it didn't happen and probably for the best since our draft picks were better. However, now what is the board here talking about ? Free agent market being manipulated to hold down prices previously but now this year getting close to the new CBA they will be skyrocketing in what year ? Well it's the year the Sox decided they were going to be big players in the Free Agency Market. The same year as everyone else doing it so no one could accuse owners of collusion . I guarantee if you think the Grandal and Moustakas and Gibson prices were a bit higher you aint' seen nothing yet. And the Sox are right smack dab in the middle of this feeding frenzy. Not an enviable position coming out of a rebuild. So White Sox luck or is it mismanagement . Could this have been foreseen ?

Can't think of any catching crew I would rather have.

Hamels was a very good pitcher but is kind of scary now. Led the MAJORS in hard hit balls % at 41.2. If he is coupled with Cole I'll hope Coop can fix him. Not all that excited with the Wheeler/Hamels combo.

True and as a final piece that worked out to win a World Series I am OK with it too. But we aren't that close yet so I'd rather not trade minor league talent just yet.

Yes. Thats a lot of money in avg production.

Is this where I’m pessimistic and say it’s just Hamels and not both

Don’t even suggest the idea

If they are at 150 million in 5 years something went really wrong.

I dont care what his WAR is, I'd never pay for a pitcher like Marco Gonzales.

Please explain

If you are getting outbid in a hot market, and outbid in a cold market, perhaps you need to re-evaluate your fa strategy.

Basically every team not rebuilding and looking for pitching that has money to spend. I believe Wheeler has become a borderline top of the market arm.

Aaron Sanchez got non-tendered. Get your man, Rick.

Wheeler has a more robust market. I think he stays on the East Coast, with either the Yankees or Phillies. I don't think the Sox are going to go to the level to get the job done. If Wheeler's market is really in the 4/$80 or 5$100 range, I think he would have signed already. I'm starting to think that it's going to take at least 6/130 to get the job done.

Nothing about the Mets has made sense for about as long as I've been alive.

So, Dale Earnhardt's colors, then.

Cool tribute to Dale with the logo.