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It would be a short-sighted LaRussa led move if it happens. Trading Andrew Vaughn is stupid with an owner that doesn't play at the top of the free agent market. He's a cornerstone player. I would hate it.

Vaughn is cheap talent. Trading him to make room for Gavin fuckin Sheets is a fireable offense. No one thinks we need more left handed sticks than I do, but just acquire RF and 2B that fill those needs. If you need to trade, don’t trade cornerstone guys. I will be so god damn mad I’d they trade AV - he’s going to be special. Gavin is just a guy that had a solid debut. He’s nice to have around and fills a few needs, but let’s not jam a square peg into a round hole here.

I agree with you in many ways about this but on the other hand this is 2021 and some things are worth dying for. Not just letting punks take your stuff. I agree with Shoeless Rob. If there's a chance to fight back it'd be worth it in 2021.

It’s just that people lump his CF & LF/RF defense into one bucket and draw incorrect conclusions. From 2017 to 2020, he had a DRS of 6 in RF. During this same period his OAA was 4 for RF. Additionally, his UZR/150 was positive in three of these four years. Generally speaking, he’s graded out to an average or slight above RF. That matches scouting reports as well. As for this year, his defense was graded poorly, but he was injured and there is nothing predictive about one years worth of defensive metrics.

There was a case not too long ago of a pizza deliverer who was delivering a pizza to a “customer”. Pulled out of car at gun point, gave wallet, keys, etc. they still shot him and killed him for “fun”. I understand the general consensus to just give them what they want and I tell my wife the same thing, but if you are able to defend yourself or have the means to stop them, I’m sure as hell going to try.

How about using RBIs??

Vaughn looked fine in LF, but was absolutely awful in RF in the short time he played there.

Depends on the player. The issue is Jose Abreu though and it always will be. Vaughn should be the 1B for the next decade.

Play Vaughn/Sheets in RF. Use money on other needs. These young guys need to play somewhere. Abreu is still the 1st baseman and Grandal is still DH when not catching.

I'm in the camp that doesn't want Conforto. If this even sniffs around a 100 mil contract. To me that's lunacy to spend that kind of money on someone you're hoping bounces back.

Thank you both, and thank you all. It is because of your dedication and valor that the rest of us numbskulls can sit here and complain about baseball all day. Thank you for everything you do and have done. There is no way to truly express what we all owe you.

Or that Leury plays in fewer than 100 games? You just know he will be the starting 2B.

Hawk Harrelson used TWTW during his GM stint.

I never saw this article earlier this year. I heard them talking on The Score about it potentially being The Athletic article of the year. They didn't sound like they were joking, but who knows. There's a lot of funny bits in there. I'm surprised Rongey got a piece written about him, lol. They also pay homage to Bob in Niles (obviously, based on the title). I miss Rongey pregame and postgame. https://theathletic.com/2451942/2021/03/16/what-about-danks-remembering-the-sensation-that-was-chris-rongeys-white-sox-radio-show?source=user-shared-article

Where can i buy bear spray? Is it legal? I won't just give them the car unless maybe if it's a rental. I guess if they like in the movies have the gun pointed at me at my chin or something I would get scared and maybe do whatever they say. Given a fighting chance, I'd resist however. Tex would u resist or keep your vehicle?

So seriously, we had this defense discussion a few pages ago and it seemed like UZR and DRS liked Conforto far less than OAA/Statcast did. Has this latter stat just completely overwhelmed the older ones and rendered them useless, or are the different ones telling us different things?

I don't think the Sox are going to spend very much. I really think we see trades. I also think they will keep a close eye on Rodon.

It’s not trading Vaughn to make room for Gavin. It’s trading Vaughn to add a cornerstone guy at a greater position of need. I get it’s easy to say “just go spend money” to fill all our holes, but that’s not remotely realistic with Jerry as owner. We desperately need another high-end pitcher and a left-handed bat of some sorts at minimum plus multiple bullpen arms. Once we run out of money, it’s going to be near impossible for us to continuing adding without subtracting from the major league roster. Again, I just don’t see how we address all our needs without tapping into our LF/1B/DH glut. Hopefully I’m wrong and Hahn finds a way to make it all work.

I think this is possible. The players demands may boost the median mlb player at the expense of the star mlb player (like in the NBA). If things like team control are reduced and players hit free agency sooner, players like semien likely have less leverage than now. Interesting point.

lots of things win games. The Royals won a ws with speed and defense. Vaughn and sheets were both rookies. Vaughn will likely hit more homeruns. I like both players. I would not say Sheets is the better prospect.

Yes

Just remember that if MLB’s market is functioning, deals should seem insane. Without COVID, revenue was going up 7-8% a year. If you took Machado’s deal and increased it by 8% a year, it’s $375 million now.

Fun thing Kiley Mcdaniel just posted, unlike in other offseasons - this one has a deadline of sorts. Even though it doesn't end your offseason, we can see just how much imposing one can impact team decisionmaking. I'm looking forward to this, a nice test for some recent discussions around improving the offseason.

I’d guess the contracts have to be enormous for this to go down like that.

They didn't offer Machado the most money. That was a fiasco. They did with Wheeler though.

That’s going to be some brutal OF defense and negate a lot of the value these kids provide with the bat. I’d rather use one of Vaughn/Sheets at DH and get me a real RF.

Whether this is serious or not, this is exactly what you should bleeping do if someone points a gun at you in any situation. Stay as calm as you can and give them basically anything they want. Don’t do anything to escalate. If you try to fight or make a sudden movement or try to pull a weapon, you have a decent chance of your life ending. My auto insurance will help pay for a replacement car. My life insurance won’t pay for a replacement me. Get out of the situation, survive it, deal with the police and insurance later.

Gotcha. I look at the fact that Varsho is under cheap control as a secondary benefit to his potential roster impact. For me, he would be the perfect addition but as I said earlier, I can't envision a talent package that would get D-backs excited, let alone adding Marte.

I'm saying the cost of Varsho's control will be more expensive than the impact of his talent. It makes trades like that too expensive for what you get back because you are "paying" for 5 years of cheap control. I'd rather have a mega package for 2 or so years of a very talented player than 5 years of a good player, especially when the sox have not yet hit spending limits.

Such a trade would require parting with a significant haul, the likes of which I don't believe we could pull off. D-backs unlikely to assign much value to Eloy and Vaughn is someone we should try to retain (although I would include him if absolutely necessary). Guessing D-backs would want young, controllable players such as Crochet, Kelley, Burger, Collins although those 4 wouldn't be nearly enough. I agree we should pursue Marte but, to me, Varsho is the better fit if I had to choose because of his handedness and defensive versatility. He is an immediate upgrade at catcher (frees up Grandal to DH) and provides a primary option for either corner OF spot and backup to Robert in CF.

No worse feeling than waiting on a FedEx and knowing it got swiped by porch pirates

Duvall also has won the Gold Glove. Miami practically gave him away. Where was Hahn while the Braves were making all these OF acquisitions on the cheap?

??? You list six sort of random points that have nothing to do with my comment which was basically...it's untrue that White Sox are cheap when in a competitive window, and, Semien on this team and they will score 9 runs a game. But regarding your points: 1) Dodgers took 8 years to break through...playoffs are random and the White Sox are still very early in their window...almost all their star players are 26 or younger. 2) Truth...1994 was my most bitter year as a fan...that team was the best of my life. 3) Hahn threw out numbers in his presser about defensive alignments...not sure I really understood but clearly they are looking at numbers but different numbers than we are. This year was an amazingly complicated year with Eloy, Robert, Madrigal and Yaz missing vast amounts of the year, Leury played the 4th most games of any player and Keuchel had an ERA of over 5..if you told me those 6 things would happen and we would win 93 games...a fair person would say that TLR did an amazing job. 4) Come on...the offseason is 15 minutes in. It wouldn't shock me to see them trade Kimbrel and sign Rodon for 3/40. Or keep Kimbrel for a killer bullpen...or sign Robbie Ray. Let's see how it plays out. 5) They stunk in the playoffs....in a sport where we measure by hundreds of games you can't draw conclusions on 5. See Dodgers. 6) Why would the front office not try to win the WS? That is a ridiculous take. Last off season they added the fireman of the year and a finalist for the CY Young. Not every move worked out but this team is loaded with talent. I remember five years ago thinking the Nationals would win the WS as they were stacked...and it took years but they finally won it....I thought the same about the Dodgers...and it took them nearly a decade of 90 win teams. I thought the same about the Braves at the end of 2020. You bring together a ton of talent and then you wait for it to explode. This team will explode at some point...we are all too impatient.

Same to you, Pete. I was USAF but for you, Semper Fi.

Thank you, Mighty Mite for your service, sir. To my brother and sister Marines, belated Happy Birthday as well.

You might not re-litigate Vaughn vs. Eloy but Eloy is scheduled to make @11M/yr over next 3 years w/team options for 2 more at @35M. Vaughn <5M over next 5 yrs. Vaughn has significantly greater trade value than Eloy.

I just want to say thanks for considering this perspective.

If the Sox were to pony up to sign Semien they would have an ungodly lineup 1-8 and all-star talent at 7 out of 8 defensive positions (pitching aside). I think bolstering a pitching staff that fell flat on its face in the playoffs would be a much higher priority than making it 8 out of 8.

Another free agent that got better when he signed with the Sox was McCann, but I am sure that doesn’t count either because reasons

Ugh. Rather stick with the Engel/Sheets/Vaughn trinity. Duvall is a 2 WAR player only because of D; and yet in the 2 prior years, he had a negative defensive WAR. Seems akin to the Eaton 7-8 WAR he throw out there once. Otherwise, he's a low OBP hitter, not exactly in short supply on the southside.

A little bit more range than Dye, who was a statue, but not even half the arm.

…what odds are you giving on this bet?

I’m trading Vaughn before I turn him into a weak side platoon player.

My current thinking is to pair Sheets and Vaughn. They need to play somewhere and RF makes the most sense. Spend resources on 2nd base and a reserve defensive catcher. Of course...pitching is always on the shopping list.

I once again find it funny that we just finished the season saying “we are too redundant, too full of right handed corner players that hit too many ground balls “ and then two weeks later people are like “we should sign Avi”.

A RH slugger with good RBI totals but puts up abysmal OBP. Competent outfielder; and I don't use the term 'competent' lightly. Could do worse, but I'd really like to see going upscale at the position. You're right in thinking that if the Sox go this route that Duvall would likely be their first choice.

Duvall also had heavy reverse splits in 2021. He couldn't hit lefties at all, but has pretty even splits for his career. A reverse splits right handed hitter might not be a bad idea for the Sox. Much better than a right handed outfielder that do most of their damage against lefties.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=300&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=21,d He (Avi) was actually 5th at FG for RF defensive rankings. There were only 9 above 0.0, the rest were in negative territory. Slugger Adolis Garcia (TEX) was the leader, by far, on D. Adam Duvall, Avi and Austin Hays (Orioles) are the other guys between 2-3 fWAR (overall) that play strong/solid defense. Haniger's defensive numbers were REALLY bad. Now whether the White Sox would go after Avi again, Adam Duvall seems a lot more likely the default move since a shorter deal.

He lost a lot of weight last year and it paid off. He probably had his 2nd best season of his career and was a huge positive defensively.

Avi has been good defensively the last two years