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Seems pretty simple to me. They’re replacing members of the coaching staff to sell fans that they’re making moves to improve the team (they know the team won’t improve). And when the team sucks next year, Grifol becomes the fall guy so they can further sell fans that they’re making moves to improve the team. Most teams would get rid of the entire coaching staff in one fell swoop. The Sox are stretching it over two seasons to stay in that JR “almost” contending area to bleed the fans for longer without spending money. It’s insulting being a fan of this team.

Just heard from a second source, a member of the mainstream media, that they know Hasler has been fired and have heard rumblings about others being told they won't be back.

From complaining that he was being disrespected by his current deal, to saying anything possible to remain in his current deal. Bye Tim

The amount of White Sox people who have said they wouldn't be surprised TA bounces back to his highest levels next year has convinced me there is no chance of it happening.

Talk about utter dysfunction. The team loses 101 games and the only change will be to demote the bullpen coach. Everyone else was part of the Grifol idiocy, a pipeline to the owner (Boston), or tied to our new pitching guru (Katz). Once again, NOTHING changes in this organization until Jerry no longer owns the team.

It really makes no sense. These guys didn't do their job, but Pedro did? The way Pedro talked about it, it almost seemed like he's oblivious to the fact that he has no chance of returning with most teams. He's not a leader. He's a brown noser who will say anything to keep a job.

I'm OK with TA playing second base.........in Oakland or Kansas City.

For what it's worth I got an e-mail from a source dated Monday morning just after midnight that said most of the coaches were told after the loss to San Diego Sunday they were going to be let go. The e-mail specifically named Boston, Hasler, Castro, Johnson "and others". We'll see. I haven't been able to find out anymore info in this regard. I'm guessing we'll all know in the next few days.

He’s hoping the Sox pick that option up because he isn’t worth it on the FA market.

What is the point of "coaching changes" if the head coach/manager who supervised this disaster of a season remains? It's not as though everyone, or anyone, thinks Grifol did a good job and was only held back by poor coaches, it's not as if anyone even thinks he did an average job. He took a team led last season by a senile drunk to a .500 finish and made it even worse. They looked absolutely clueless most of the time and certainly didn't look like they were trying hard for the manager.

After the game Grifol said of this season it was “Frustrating. Educational. Somewhat embarrassed,” Grifol said. “But hungry and committed to get it right.” If losing 101 games with a team supposedly in its 'championship window' is only somewhat embarrassing, what on earth would it take for him to be embarrassed enough to resign.

Why would Bob Melvin come here to manage? The only managers that would come here are those who can’t get a job elsewhere. Same for free agents. No one is going to pass up other teams to be a part of this dysfunctional organization. Every player who leaves here talks about how poorly run this team is.

Is he willing to move to catcher?

I understand why no one has any confidence in anything this organization does, but if what Lip says is true and they entirely dismiss many of these "White Sox Way" lifers in the next few weeks, I doubt it is just to appease the fans. Coupled with the departure of Hahn/Williams, it could be the most major overhaul in the history of this ownership. I am not saying Getz is the solution or that they will do a good job picking the next staff, but I am not sure it can get much worse. So, I can live with Grifol another season if they bring in talented coaches and evaluators from outside the dysfunctional White Sox family. Grifol's work at the ML level is the least concern with the number of other problems the org has from the ground up.

Keeping him is wrong. Sox gave him a whole season. The team was one of the worst in club history. Get rid of him. My gosh, Sox. You can afford to pay him exit money. This guy needs to go.

Oh man, if you think this is rock bottom wait until next season. They have so many holes to fill and wont be spending the money to do it. They are not going to be able to improve a 100 loss roster. We haven't seen rock bottom yet.

No thanks.

For $14 million I will happily give it a go as well!

Nah Boston is toast. He and all of the other Ken Williams spies and lackies will just vanish into the ether

I look forward to a great 2024 season with our elite third baseman, our modern day Jackie Robinson, and our 40+ HR DH as our young championship core.

You have a team you expect to win the division, and instead it loses 100 games. How does this dope not get fired? He is a huge part of clearing the stench.

About a thousand guys

It’s amazing looking back at the early part of the season and reading how delusional many here were.

Just for fun, lets take a approximate look at 2024 (less arb estimates) Current commitments: $120,000,000 Potential commitments with Anderson, Hendriks, and Clevinger options declined: $85,500,000 Starting Players (2023 bWAR) Catcher: Kory Lee (-0.7) / Carlos Perez (0.0) First Base: Andrew Vaughn (1.0) Second Base: Lenyn Sosa (-0.8) Short Stop: Tim Anderson (-2.0) Third Base: Yoan Moncada (0.6) Left Field: Andrew Benintendi (0.2) Center Field: Luis Robert Jr. (5.1) Right Field: Gavin Sheets (-1.4) DH: Eloy Jimenez (0.3) SP1: Dylan Cease (2.4) SP2: Michael Kopech (0.7) SP3: Touki Toussaint (1.0) SP4: Jesse Scholtens (0.3) SP5: NONE Bullpen: Gregory Santos (1.3), Tanner Banks (0.8), Garrett Crochet (0.2), Luis Patino (0.2), Sammy Peralta (0.2), Jimmy Lambert (0.1), Lane Ramsey (-0.1), Deivi Garcia (-0.2), Declan Cronin (-0.4), Aaron Bummer (-1.0) Everyone in red should probably or definitely needs to be replaced. Its not realistic for that to happen, but its damn near the entire roster. Assuming options are declined on at least Hendriks and Clevinger, were looking at approx. $100,000,000 in payroll commitments without assuming arbitration so most likely higher. And lets just assume they generously get another $160,000,000 payroll budget. That's approx. $60 million dollars available to sign at least 3 starting pitchers, a few competent bullpen arms, a starting RFer, a starting 2B, bench players. This is not going to happen. The 2024 White Sox are shaping up to be quite possibly the worst team a lot of you have ever seen in your lifetime. Simply put, were fucked.

Who cares? It’s a stopgap for a season in which we will absolutely not compete. Throw Gavin Sheets out there and call it a day.

It’s a start but keeping Grifol is a huge mistake.

I noticed it this weekend - it probably happened sooner and I just haven't watched much Sox games, but TA's swing is all wrist. It is just a shell of himself. I'm not sure if it is due to injury or what, but the swing is an absolute mess. He always had quick hands and a wristy swing - but the approach, everything is just terrible. He needs a reset and maybe it has to do with a bunch of other stuff / ailments that got him there, but he clearly needs to see someone different and get back to basics from a hitting perspective.

Honestly the one thing I wanted to see this season is some sort of noticeable progressing in any area of the team. So far looks like more of the same except some areas significantly worse. That’s why I am out on him, this whole structure and method bullshit he keeps talking about is a goddamn myth

On his last AB, Gavin Sheets had the OFs misplay his last pop up to give him his first hit of the season against a LHP and get his average for the season over .200.

By the Numbers… If the White Sox are being honest with themselves they’ll find there is not one…single…area where they can say, “We’re OK here, this is something we can build on…” Consider: The offense is terrible. Doesn’t draw walks, doesn’t hit home runs, strikes out far too much The are “baseball-stupid” when it comes to fundamentals The manager is clearly in over his head The front office is new and have to do “deep dives” into all the problems They at best may have two starting pitchers The bullpen is made up of has been’s, retreads, injury-prone guys and cast offs The minor league system is thin at best This has been my 63rd season following this team as a fan and then as a Sox historian. The time period from 1968-1970 was bad…but not this bad. There are so many areas that are crippling starting with ownership that is ossified. Just some numbers that show some of the issues: The 101 losses is tied for the third worst in the history of the franchise. They scored three runs or less in 87 of 162 games played. That’s 53.7% They were 5-10 in extra inning games (lack of fundamentals/bad bullpens). They allowed 10 or more runs in a game 20 times. 19 times they had a lead in the 7th inning or later…and LOST the game! Here is the pitcher breakdown (in some cases it was two pitchers in the inning who lost it): Kelly-5 (7th/5-27); (9th/5-28); (9th/6-10); (8th/7-1); (8th/7-4) Graveman-3 (7th/3-31); (9th/6-11); (9th/7-9); (9th/7-23) Lopez- 2 ½ (7th/4-14); (9th/4-21); (8th/5-4) Santos-2 ½ (7th/7-22); (9th/8-16); (9th/9-5) Crochet-1 (8th/9-22) Diekman-1 (7th/3-31); (7th/4-14) Lynn-1 (7th/4-29) Scholtens-1 (7th/8-12) Shaw-1 (7th/9-18) Banks- ½ (10th/7-23) Middleton- ½ (7th/7-22) With Reinsdorf already publicly setting limits on what Getz is going to be able to do in free agency, and with it being a mediocre free agent class to start with, plus not a lot of valuable trading assets I simply don’t see how this club is going to be significantly better next year, even in a bad division. In the winter of 1970, at least Roland Hemond had some valuable trading assets (Aparicio, Berry) he was able to move to get back multiple pieces and he had some good players (John, May, Melton, Wood) already producing on the roster. That’s how the Sox went from 56 wins to 79 in 1971. That’s not happening here.

I'm OK with Elvis but as only a backup, he finished pretty strong with a nice second half and one of the few players who busted his butt and showed like he cared.

You survive the next few years by taking care of yourself and outliving current ownership. Then you see what the next owner does.

Ha. No need to apologize. As I mentioned in another thread, I work with failing and floundering comapnies/organizations all the time as part of my 9 to 5. Warning signs went flashing in my head as soon as I heard Grifol speak publicily during that long losing streak in April. The Sox have/had the wrong people at pretty much every key position in the organization. They were setup to fail from the jump this year and boy did they ever.

I really doubt Boston and Hassler cost the White Sox wins this year. I know Pedro did.

He's clearly all talk. He will be fired in the next calendar year. If you really think your team could be interesting at all in 2024, for good reasons, you better fire him before the season starts.

I love how Pedro mentions results oriented and he’s going to make changes, yet he stays.He did none of what he said he was going to do. From the first day of spring training until the last game of the year, he failed. Bullpen coach demoted, that I’ll make a difference….I think with KW gone, DBo is finally at the end of the line. That will probably be it. They probably all should go. there is nothing to indicate Pedro improved as a manager from March to October. To expect him to be something better moving forward, is based on what the White Sox usually base these things on, nothing. You cannot be an owner who wants to win, or a GM who is trying to win and have Pedro Grifol as your manager, unless you just haven't paid attention and love brown nosers.

Can't wait for SoxFest 2024!!!

Is this the worst era of Chicago sports in history? I'd say it pretty much has to be. Bears are the worst team in the NFL, White Sox and Bulls both near the bottom. Blackhawks sucked last season. Don't know how it could get much worse. Think I need to find some new hobbies because following Chicago sports is a lost cause. None of the owners seem to give a rip

He does have a point. If this is what it took to get rid of KW and RH, it very well may be worth it.

I feel bad for anyone trying to make a living in the White Sox ticket sales office. Things are going to be very ugly at the gates next year. I'm sure advertisers are jumping ship as well. Not sure why any decent and respectable company would want to be associated with the White Sox right now.

Interest in the Sox has absolutely hit rock bottom. It is pretty amazing how these clowns completely and totally tanked and destroyed their company brand.

Imagine if the biggest fraud in baseball was fired after the 2016 season. Revisionist history and all, but the Sox might have actually won a playoff series or two if dumb and dumber were shown the door like they should have been.

Same to you my friend!

Grifol truly thinks he did a good job this season, you lost 101 games must be F’N nice to keep your job!

1900 was the last year at least one professional Chicago Sports Team (Baseball, Basketball, Football, Ice Hockey, Soccer) did not finish over .500. Baring an improbable over .500 Chicago Bears season, the Chicago Cubs were the only team to finish 2023 above .500. Below are the 21 years a single Chicago professional team finished over .500, with the White Sox at the top with eight seasons (8 White Sox 8; 5 Cubs/Chicago/Orphans; 4 Bears; 2 Black Hawks/Blackhawks; 1 Bulls; 1 Fire FC). 21 Seasons One Chicago Professional Sports Team finished over .500 (1901 - 2023) (Number of teams - Teams with losing records) 2023 Cubs (Bears pending conclusion of 2023 season; Blackhawks, Bulls, Fire, Sky, White Sox) 2002 Blackhawks (Bears, Bulls, Cubs, White Sox) 1999 Fire FC (Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls, Cubs, White Sox) 1997 Bulls (Bears, Blackhawks, Cubs, White Sox) 1987 Bears (Blackhawks, Bulls, Cubs & White Sox) 1978 Black Hawks (Bears, Bulls, Cubs, Sting o, White Sox) 1960 White Sox (Bears, Black Hawks, Cubs) 1952, 1953, 1957 White Sox (Bears, Black Hawks, Cardinals, Cubs) 1945 Cubs (American Giants, Bears, Black Hawks, Cardinals, White Sox) 1941, 1942, 1944 Bears (American Giants, Black Hawks, Cardinals, Cubs, White Sox) 1916, 1917 White Sox (Cubs) 1910, 1918 Cubs (White Sox) 1903 Chicago (White Sox) 1902 White Sox (Chicago) 1901 White Sox (Orphans) 2023 Chicago Major League Team Standings - Last Completed Regular Season .512 Chicago Cubs (2023 83-79) .488 Chicago Bulls (2022-2023 40-42) .450 Chicago Sky (2023 18-22) .426 Chicago Fire FC (2022 10-15-9) - Clinched 2023 losing record .377 Chicago White Sox (2023 61-101) .317 Chicago Blackhawks (2022-2023 26-56) .176 Chicago Bears (2022 3-14) - Likely 2023 losing record Chicago Major League Teams (Baseball, Basketball, Football, Hockey, Soccer) over .500 by year (1876 - 2023): Chicago American Giants (1920-1935 & 1937-1948) NNL; NSL; NN2; NAL Chicago Bears (1922-2022); Chicago Staleys (1921) APFA & NFL Chicago Blackhawks (1987-2004 & 2006-2023) & Chicago Black Hawks (1927-1986) NHL Chicago Bulls (1967-2024) NBA Chicago Cardinals (1920-1959) APFA & NFL Chicago Chi-Feds (1914) & Chicago Whales (1915) FL Chicago Cougars (1973-1975) WHA Chicago Cubs (1904-2023); Chicago (1888-1889 &1902-1903); Chicago Orphans (1898-1901); Chicago Colts (1890-1897); Chicago White Stockings (1876-1887) NL & MLB Chicago Fire FC (1998-2001, 2003-2005, 2020-2023) MLS Chicago Giants (1920-1921) NNL Chicago Rockets (1946-1948) & Chicago Hornets (1949) AAFC Chicago Mustangs (1967-1968) USA & NASL Chicago Packers (1962) & Chicago Zephyrs (1963) NBA Chicago Pirates (1890) PL Chicago/Pittsburgh (1884) UA Chicago Sky (2006-2009 & 2018-2023) WNBA Chicago Stags (1947-1950) BAA & NBA Chicago Sting NASL & MISL & o = Outdoor Seasons (1975-1984) NASL & i = Indoor Seasons (1976, 1981-1986) Chicago White Sox (1901-2023) AL & MLB Year (Number of Chicago Teams) Teams with over .500 regular season seasons. Bold Team = Championship Season 2023 (6 + 1 Bears in Progress) Cubs 2022 (7) Bulls, Sky 2021 (7) Sky, White Sox 2020 (7) Cubs, Sky, White Sox 2019 (6) Cubs, Sky 2018 (6) Bears, Cubs 2017 (5) Blackhawks, Cubs 2016 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls, Cubs 2015 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls, Cubs 2014 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls 2013 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls 2012 (5) Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls, White Sox 2011 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls 2010 (5) Bears, Blackhawks, White Sox 2009 (6) Blackhawks, Cubs 2008 (6) Bears, Cubs, White Sox 2007 (6) Bulls, Cubs 2006 (6) Bears, White Sox 2005 (5) Bears, Bulls, Fire, White Sox 2004 (6) Cubs, White Sox 2003 (6) Cubs, Fire, White Sox 2002 (5) Blackhawks 2001 (6) Bears, Cubs, Fire, White Sox 2000 (6) Fire, White Sox 1999 (6) Fire 1998 (6) Bulls, Cubs, Fire 1997 (5) Bulls 1996 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls, White Sox 1995 (5) Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls, Cubs 1994 (5) Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls, White Sox 1993 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls, Cubs, White Sox 1992 (5) Blackhawks, Bulls, White Sox 1991 (5) Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls, White Sox 1990 (5) Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls, White Sox 1989 (5) Bulls, Cubs 1988 (5) Bears, Bulls 1987 (5) Bears 1986 (6) Bears, Black Hawks 1985 (6) Bears, Black Hawks, Sting i, White Sox 1984 (7) Bears, Cubs, Sting i, Sting o 1983 (7) Black Hawks, Sting i, White Sox 1982 (7) Sting i, White Sox 1981 (7) Bulls, Sting i, Sting o, White Sox 1980 (6) Black Hawks, Sting o 1979 (6) Bears, Sting o 1978 (6) Black Hawks 1977 (6) Bears, Bulls, White Sox 1976 (7) Black Hawks, Sting o 1975 (7) Black Hawks, Bulls, Sting o 1974 (6) Black Hawks, Bulls, Cougars 1973 (6) Black Hawks, Bulls 1972 (5) Black Hawks, Bulls, Cubs, White Sox 1971 (5) Black Hawks, Bulls, Cubs 1970 (5) Black Hawks, Cubs 1969 (5) Black Hawks, Cubs 1968 (6) Black Hawks, Cubs, Mustangs 1967 (6) Bears, Black Hawks, Cubs, Mustangs, White Sox 1966 (4) Black Hawks, White Sox 1965 (4) Bears, Black Hawks, White Sox 1964 (4) Black Hawks, White Sox 1963 (5) Bears, Black Hawks, Cubs, White Sox 1962 (5) Bears, Black Hawks, White Sox 1961 (4) Bears, Black Hawks, White Sox 1960 (4) White Sox 1959 (5) Bears, White Sox 1958 (5) Bears, White Sox 1957 (5) White Sox 1956 (5) Bears, Cardinals, White Sox 1955 (5) Bears, White Sox 1954 (5) Bears, White Sox 1953 (5) White Sox 1952 (5) White Sox 1951 (5) Bears, White Sox 1950 (6) Bears, Stags 1949 (6) Bears, Cardinals, Stags 1948 (7) Bears, Cardinals, Stags 1947 (7) Bears, Cardinals, Stags 1946 (6) Bears, Black Hawks, Cubs 1945 (6) Cubs 1944 (6) Bears 1943 (6) American Giants, Bears, White Sox 1942 (6) Bears 1941 (6) Bears 1940 (6) Bears, Black Hawks, White Sox 1939 (6) American Giants, Bears, Cubs, White Sox 1938 (6) American Giants, Bears, Cubs 1937 (6) American Giants, Bears, Cubs, White Sox 1936 (5) Bears, Black Hawks, Cubs, White Sox 1935 (6) Bears, Black Hawks, Cardinals, Cubs 1934 (6) American Giants, Bears, Black Hawks, Cubs 1933 (6) American Giants, Bears, Cubs 1932 (6) American Giants, Bears, Cubs 1931 (6) Bears, Black Hawks, Cardinals, Cubs 1930 (6) American Giants, Bears, Black Hawks, Cubs 1929 (6) American Giants, Cubs 1928 (6) American Giants, Bears, Cubs 1927 (6) American Giants, Bears, Cubs 1926 (5) American Giants, Bears, Cubs, White Sox 1925 (5) American Giants, Bears, Cardinals, White Sox 1924 (5) American Giants, Bears, Cardinals, Cubs 1923 (5) American Giants, Bears, Cardinals, Cubs 1922 (5) American Giants, Bears, Cardinals, Cubs 1921 (6) American Giants, Staleys 1920 (5) American Giants, Cardinals, White Sox 1919 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1918 (2) Cubs 1917 (2) White Sox 1916 (2) White Sox 1915 (3) Whales, White Sox 1914 (3) Chi-Feds, Cubs 1913 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1912 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1911 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1910 (2) Cubs 1909 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1908 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1907 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1906 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1905 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1904 (2) Cubs, White Sox 1903 (2) Chicago 1902 (2) White Sox 1901 (2) White Sox 1900 (1) None 1899 (1) Orphans 1898 (1) Orphans 1897 (1) None 1896 (1) Colts 1895 (1) Colts 1894 (1) None 1893 (1) None 1892 (1) None 1891 (1) Colts 1890 (2) Colts, White Stockings 1889 (1) Chicago 1888 (1) Chicago 1887 (1) White Stockings 1886 (1) White Stockings 1885 (1) White Stockings 1884 (2) White Stockings 1883 (1) White Stockings 1882 (1) White Stockings 1881 (1) White Stockings 1880 (1) White Stockings 1879 (1) White Stockings 1878 (1) None 1877 (1) None 1876 (1) White Stockings Includes the following leagues: Baseball NL National League (1876-1900) UA Union Association (1884) PL Players League (1890) MLB Major League Baseball (1901-2023) FL Federal League (1914-1915) NNL Negro National League (1920-1931) NSL Negro Southern League (1932) NN2 Negro National League II (1933-1935) NAL Negro American League (1937-1948) Basketball BAA Basketball Association of America (1946-47 through 1948-1949) NBA National Basketball Association (1949-1950; 1961-1962 through 1962-1963; 1966-1967 through 2023-2024) WNBA Women's National Basketball Association (2006-2009 & 2018-2023) Football APFA American Professional Football Association (1920-1921) NFL National Football League (1922-2023) AAFC All-American Football Conference (1946-1949) Hockey NHL National Hockey League (1926-1927 through 2003-2004 & 2005-2006 through 2023-2024) WHA World Hockey Association (1972-1973 through 1974-1975) Soccer Indoor NASL North American Soccer League (1976; 1980-1981 through 1981-1982 & 1983-1984) MISL Major Indoor Soccer League (1982-1983 & 1984-1985 through 1985-1986) Soccer Outdoor USA United Soccer Association (1967) NASL North American Soccer League (1968; 1975-1984) MLS Major League Soccer (1998-2001; 2003-2005; 2020-2023) Note: Seasons and records above are limited to those hosted in the City of Chicago. Fire, Sky & Sting seasons played in the suburbs are not included above. Note: The Chicago Black Hawks won the 1937-1938 Stanley Cup with a losing regular season record of 14-25-9, and are not included above.

Are you Chris Getz?

Europe wins the 2023 Ryder Cup 16.5-11.5, this tournament was lost by the Americans on Friday and Saturday morning when the Euros built a huge lead that was just too much to make up. With an hour to go the Americans still had a small chance, they needed to win the last 5 matches and were leading 3 of them but just couldn't pull it off.

But this year is a FAR tougher schedule. When you can't beat up on the Tigers, especially, for 19 games. I think 90 losses is a stretch, but definitely feels like 74-88 is quite possible...especially if any of the starting pitchers were to go down for an extended time.

Sure, it’s possible. They could also win 90 games. Also possible. Tough start, not looking great, needed to stay healthy and aren’t so far, etc, etc. but I don’t think they’ll lose 90 games. They were a train wreck all last season and won 81 with largely the same team.

Has Robert ever played 100 games?