Complain about Kimbrel here:

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Dan Pasqua said:

Kopech but I agree with previous poster that maybe we need to see if Kimbrel performs better with Grandal.

Sure, but Kopech can only be used a couple of times per week....not 75-90 games in a season.

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Setting aside the several issues brought up through the first 2 + pages (2018, Katz, Madrigal, Heuer, Boston Red Sox, Rick Hahn, Hendricks, etc.), Kimbrel is more of a scapegoat for an overall poorly performing and managed team, with much of the angst due to the fact Madrigal, and to a lessor extent Heuer, were traded.

Kimbrel's record to date in a White Sox uniform:

1. Kimbrel has pitched better than Liam during this period

• Hendriks 7 Appearances, 7 1/3 IP,  3 HRs, 7 runs (6 ER)
• Kimbrel 10 Appearances, 9 1/3 IP, 2 HRs, 6 runs (6 ER)

2. In Kimbrel's 10 appearances:

• 3 were perfect (1 IP 1K; 1 IP 1K; 1 IP 2Ks)
• 3 were solid: 1 inning & 1 baserunner, 0 runs, 2 K average (1 IP, 1 H, 1 K); (1 IP, 1 BB, 2 Ks); (1 IP, 1 H, 3 Ks)
• Of the remaining 4 appearances:

1. 8/20: Tony admitted he managed the 8th inning in Tampa poorly. Kimbrell allowed 1 walk, and was incorrectly pulled by La Russa after the second out, His walk scored when Bummer gave up four straight hits/walks and three runs total, Kimbrel's walk and two of his own runs. Sox came back to win.
2. 8/24: Gave up a single, and the runner scored on 2 wild pitches. His fault since one runner scored (the intentional walk was stranded). Sox lost, scoring 1 run the entire game.
3. 8/14: Gave up a home run to lead off the inning vs. Aaron Judge. Allowed a second hit, which was retired when the next hitter grounded into a DP to end the inning. Liam gave up 3 runs to lose the game in the 10th.
4. 8/6: Three runs allowed on a three run homer by Andrew Romine with the wind blowing out (expected BA .170). Sox came back in extra innings to win.

3. The trade can be hashed to death over the next few years, possibly beyond, but Kimbrel is not the reason the Sox are playing .500 baseball since his arrival.

Right, they're now 1 game under .500 again since the ASB and have been stuck in that band or range between 16 and 21 games over .500 for seemingly two full months.

Part of it is the timing of when playing the better teams (see this recent stretch of 4 playoff contenders that we're just ending), another has been the Royals playing us much tougher this season than last and also the Tigers making significant progress, albeit falling back a bit in the last couple of weeks now.   For a day or two, DET actually passed the Indians or were at least tied with them.

 

We're putting a lot now on Grandal and fixing the bullpen...because "fixing the bullpen" has been the center of the discussion since the very beginning of the season, with that Angels' series where the pen scuffled in 3 out of the 4 games.

[tray]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, but Kopech can only be used a couple of times per week....not 75-90 games in a season.

Maybe Kopech could be a Closer. That actually could suit his pitching style and his arm strength.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, tray said:

Maybe Kopech could be a Closer. That actually could suit his pitching style and his arm strength.

Then you're down a starter for 2022, unless you rely on Lopez (shudders).

And you're also basically admitting Kimbrel was a failure, because there's just no way you have Kopech, Kimbrel and Hendriks all at the back of the pen for 2022 again (and pay two closers $30+ million to NOT CLOSE).  Not all three of them together in the pen.  That's just a poor allocation of resources.

It makes sense then (if you were keeping Kopech in the pen) to replace Kimbrel's $16 million with another starting pitcher, but then that all depends on how good you believe Kopech will be as a starting pitcher, right?

In general, starting pitchers have a LOT more value to baseball teams than closers, much higher fWAR, etc., but the White Sox are trying to test out that theory...or maybe upend it...as we speak.

[South Side Hit Men]

28 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Right, they're now 1 game under .500 again since the ASB and have been stuck in that band or range between 16 and 21 games over .500 for seemingly two full months.

Part of it is the timing of when playing the better teams (see this recent stretch of 4 playoff contenders that we're just ending), another has been the Royals playing us much tougher this season than last and also the Tigers making significant progress, albeit falling back a bit in the last couple of weeks now.   For a day or two, DET actually passed the Indians or were at least tied with them.

We're putting a lot now on Grandal and fixing the bullpen...because "fixing the bullpen" has been the center of the discussion since the very beginning of the season, with that Angels' series where the pen scuffled in 3 out of the 4 games.

Don't see why people keep complaining the bullpen needs a fixin'. The Sox need a fourth bench player, two starters to return (Engel and Grandal) and three superior bench options (Garcia over Mendick; Hamilton over Lamb, and Sheets over Goodwin).

Current Staff - 2021 MLB Pitching Statistics (ERA, Player. Innings, Ks):

• 2.20 Lynn (130 2/3, 145)
• 2.38 Rodon (109 2/3, 160)
• 3.77 Giolito (148, 169)
• 4.06 Cease (130 2/3, 170)
• 4.71 Keuchel (135 2/3, 82)

• 1.57 Kimbrel (46, 78)
• 1.86 Lopez (29, 30)
• 2.74 Kopech (49 1/3, 68)
• 2.77 Tepera (52, 62)
• 2.84 Burr (25 1/3, 20)
• 2.95 Crochet (42 2/3, 56)
• 3.19 Hendriks (53 2/3, 89)
• 3.58 Ruiz (50 1/3, 52)
• 4.15 Wright (4 1/3, 3)
• 4.22 Bummer (42 2/3, 60)

 

[zisk]

8 hours ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

Compared to any of the other dumpster fires out there in the bullpen? I’d much rather take a chance w Kimbrel over the likes of Marshall, Ruiz or any other reliever for that matter not named Hendricks and Kopech 

Crochet

[CentralChamps21]

Kimbrel's last 2 outings:

1) Walked on batter, then got two outs, then someone else let that run in (plus others)

2) Batter snuck a grounder through at the right spot, then scored on wild pitches/passed balls

Both had more bad luck than getting hit hard.

[poppysox]

Kimbrel has too much of a track record for us to go into panic mode.  I have a hunch that by the middle of October we will all be big fans.

[South Side Hit Men]

29 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Kimbrel's last 2 outings:

1) Walked on batter, then got two outs, then someone else let that run in (plus others)

2) Batter snuck a grounder through at the right spot, then scored on wild pitches/passed balls

Both had more bad luck than getting hit hard.

You can add giving up a 3 run homer to Andrew Romine on an expected .170 batting average to the bad luck.

The one home run to Aaron Judge was the one poor pitch that cost Kimbrel, and many questioned whether he should work around Judge, the same questions as the first Vlad at bat last night. Toronto cameras and announcers showed Tony yelling at Seby after the inning, screaming look at me, when he could and should have walked Vlad intentionally, especially after the 3rd ball. Even if Tony called for four balls, one can always find the strike zone, or at least be hittable by someone as talented as Vlad.

Edited August 24, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[Balta1701]

27 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Kimbrel's last 2 outings:

1) Walked on batter, then got two outs, then someone else let that run in (plus others)

2) Batter snuck a grounder through at the right spot, then scored on wild pitches/passed balls

Both had more bad luck than getting hit hard.

Both of those outings features key wild pitches too. Same catcher, one of them was a 2 base WP.

[Dick Allen]

30 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You can add giving up a 3 run homer to Andrew Romine on an expected .170 batting average to the bad luck.

The one home run to Aaron Judge was the one poor pitch that cost Kimbrel, and many questioned whether he should work around Judge, the same questions as the first Vlad at bat last night. Toronto cameras and announcers showed Tony yelling at Seby after the inning, screaming look at me, when he could and should have walked Vlad intentionally, especially after the 3rd ball. Even if Tony called for four balls, one can always find the strike zone, or at least be hittable by someone as talented as Vlad.

I've never understood the "just don't give him anything close" approach. You are risking a PB, WP or as we saw when they used to have to throw 4 pitches for an intentional walk, a couple get pretty close to the zone. Tony should be mad only at himself. He only had to raise 4 fingers. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Dick Allen

[White Sox Park]

I have zero confidence in Kimbrell right now, he seems to be trying too hard or something . hopefully he can straighten himself out and lead us to the promised land . i'm one of those guys who was a huge Nick Madrigal fan, so this guy better make it count every time he steps on the rubber.

[fathom]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I've never understood the "just don't give him anything close" approach. You are risking a PB, WP or as we saw when they used to have to throw 4 pitches for an intentional walk, a couple get pretty close to the zone. Tony should be mad only at himself. He only had to raise 4 fingers. 

Tony blaming Seby is ridiculous 

[maloney.adam]

I don’t think Kimbrel is comfortable in his role yet. I’m confident he will be come October but if for any reason it doesn’t work out, than we can always trade him in the offseason or at the deadline next year.

Edited August 24, 2021 by maloney.adam

[maloney.adam]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Tony blaming Seby is ridiculous 

I watched the video and I was like uh oh, this can’t be good. 

[Bob Sacamano]

The good news is if he is a guy that needs high leverage situations (not that I actually buy this shit), every inning in the playoffs should be considered "high leverage" and he should be fine.

[Balta1701]

y’all gotta add links when you mention stuff that happens.

 

[The Grinder]

Lets hope the cubs didnt fleece us! They getting even for the Eloy trade?

[South Side Hit Men]

If they lose a few more and it pushes him over the edge to leave, it will all be worth it. Feel bad for the Toronto batboy, hopefully Tony's saliva didn't hit him.

 

The link below includes the full video and commentary by the Toronto broadcast. I don't believe Jerry's Sox Network broadcast any of this last night. Announcers and the production team are not in Toronto to save Jerry a few bucks, so perhaps they can't see Tony going apeshit, but my understanding is they get the same feeds as the home team in the Jerry Springer studios in the NBC Tower.

I don't recall Len or DJ mentioning it during their broadcast, and they were at the game. Perhaps they didn't see, perhaps they self-censored. 

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BetterCraftyKingfisher-mobile.mp4

Edited August 24, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[Harold's Leg Lift]

LaRussa is asleep in the dugout blah blah blah LaRussa is a button pusher blah blah blah LaRussa doesn't have the fire and the passion blah blah blah

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

18 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

LaRussa is asleep in the dugout blah blah blah LaRussa is a button pusher blah blah blah LaRussa doesn't have the fire and the passion blah blah blah

There was a page's worth of posts yesterday of how TLR was taking a nap in the dugout during Vlad's at-bat. Then the gif comes out of him fuming and now he's apeshit and too over the top. This man just has a cosmic effect of living in people's heads -- they're turning him into a legend without even knowing it. 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm not sure why he was mad. Tony should have thrown up 4 fingers before Vlad even saw a pitch.

[South Side Hit Men]

25 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

LaRussa is asleep in the dugout blah blah blah LaRussa is a button pusher blah blah blah LaRussa doesn't have the fire and the passion blah blah blah

Who is Tony crappin'?

Real time, mouthbreather standing there like a comatose statue. Could have visited the mound, motioned to the umpire for a walk, or sent Katz to the mound if he couldn't be bothered doing any of these things.

If it was an unwritten rule he would be on the top step screaming his lungs out, perhaps he would have run down and shoved Zavala like he did the Guardians' catcher (Perez).

Cost the Sox the game, do nothing.

Compare and contrast:

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

y’all gotta add links when you mention stuff that happens.

 

If Yaz can catch a few days a week in the minors, he can catch a few days a week up here.  Get his ass on plane to Toronto right now.  So fucking sick of watching Zavala/Collins be terrible.  

[Stinky Stanky]

13 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Kimbrel's numbers in medium/low leverage situations in his career are better than they are in high leverage (dominant in all).

The story of Kimbrel's numbers is "what has he done for us lately?'  Ten years ago is the Pleistocene Epoch as far as 2021 baseball is concerned.