T R U Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 19 minutes ago, Snopek said: Yeah I don’t buy this at all. Based on what exactly? Because Robert being a 5WAR player with 3 years of control left would still get you a very nice package in a trade. I suppose you could imagine a world where he took another step and was like a 7-8 WAR player which would obviously increase his value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 They gambled and lost and keep losing. What if they decide not to trade him in July though? Do you pick up the option in the off-season and try to see if you can trade him by next July? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 10 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: They gambled and lost and keep losing. What if they decide not to trade him in July though? Do you pick up the option in the off-season and try to see if you can trade him by next July? Assume he never gets right and ends the season hitting .200 with a .590 OPS. I would go ahead and say there is no chance that they pick up a $20M option, I just can't see that happening. His 2024 sucked, his 2025 is atrocious. This isn't a bad few months were looking at here, it would be two years of bad and as a business decision you can't give $20M to it when you can get out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Keeping him this season was an absolutely horrific decision. He should have been first on the block in November solely due to his health issues, but now we have terrible offense to lower the value even more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 17 minutes ago, T R U said: Assume he never gets right and ends the season hitting .200 with a .590 OPS. I would go ahead and say there is no chance that they pick up a $20M option, I just can't see that happening. His 2024 sucked, his 2025 is atrocious. This isn't a bad few months were looking at here, it would be two years of bad and as a business decision you can't give $20M to it when you can get out of it. I wouldn’t really want him back but just not sure the organization would admit they fucked up and end up doubling down on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 At this point let him bat 7th, play a good CF, and steal everytime he gets on base. We are going to get a bag of balls for him right now. He is a major bust, to me it's all mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierSox Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Sox will get more for Tauchman at the deadline than Robert. Sad ending to all the Hahn extensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 This is, once again, a Reinsdorf problem. When Jerry introduced Chris Getz to the media on August 31st, 2023, Reinsdorf said: "The conclusion I came to is what we owe our fans, and ourselves, is to not waste any time, we want to get better as fast as we possibly can. And if I had gone outside the organization, it would have taken at least a year to get familiar with everyone in the organization, and that would mean this (upcoming) year would not be a year of great progress." Additionally, there was this: Even if Getz wanted to trade Robert, I don't know if he would have been "allowed" to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Tony said: This is, once again, a Reinsdorf problem. When Jerry introduced Chris Getz to the media on August 31st, 2023, Reinsdorf said: "The conclusion I came to is what we owe our fans, and ourselves, is to not waste any time, we want to get better as fast as we possibly can. And if I had gone outside the organization, it would have taken at least a year to get familiar with everyone in the organization, and that would mean this (upcoming) year would not be a year of great progress." Additionally, there was this: Even if Getz wanted to trade Robert, I don't know if he would have been "allowed" to do it. I blame Jerry for hiring Getz; he is clearly over his head and has no idea what he is doing. There is no plan. His trades have been abysmal. His FA signings have been terrible. Also, while it's hard to evaluate his drafts this early, he has been trading for prospects; these are players he and his scouting staff have identified. Why would anyone think his drafting of prospects would be any better than his trading for prospects? This team is hopeless, let's face it. I don't want to be a doomer, but I am just fed up. Anyone who is selling people on this being a process, explain that process to me, and don't say tanking for picks, because sucking isn't a process; it's a result. That is why poorly run bad teams in MLB rarely turn themselves around in the draft this is a team sport. One player or the first overall pick doesn't change the fortunes of a club you need a deep team to win in baseball. The angels had both Trout and Ohtani but still sucked for years. That is why in baseball you need a plan and you need a wave of prospects to pretty much all arrive at the same time to be competitive. Edited June 2 by wrathofhahn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 50 minutes ago, 2Deep said: At this point let him bat 7th, play a good CF, and steal everytime he gets on base. We are going to get a bag of balls for him right now. He is a major bust, to me it's all mental. Hell, let him bat 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 As far as Roberts goes the only play at this point is to hold onto him and hope he bounces back. If he doesn't then you lose him for nothing but trading for a 4A guy doesn't help the club. We should be looking at getting bounce back guys who can appreciate in value not trading them away. We are not getting anything of value for Roberts until he leaves his slump if he does than the option isn't bad value if he doesn't what do you think a sub .600 OPS hitter making 15M is worth? Nothing anyways so lets the season play out and tell him his option isn't going to be picked up or he won't be traded unless he improves. If he isn't motivated headed into FA then he never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: They gambled and lost and keep losing. What if they decide not to trade him in July though? Do you pick up the option in the off-season and try to see if you can trade him by next July? I can't see anyway JR allows that to happen, if anything he's going to order the payroll cut even more next season due to the probable lock out disrupting the 2027 year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, Tony said: This is, once again, a Reinsdorf problem. When Jerry introduced Chris Getz to the media on August 31st, 2023, Reinsdorf said: "The conclusion I came to is what we owe our fans, and ourselves, is to not waste any time, we want to get better as fast as we possibly can. And if I had gone outside the organization, it would have taken at least a year to get familiar with everyone in the organization, and that would mean this (upcoming) year would not be a year of great progress." Additionally, there was this: Even if Getz wanted to trade Robert, I don't know if he would have been "allowed" to do it. This - it really feels like to work with JR you kind of have to understand what makes him ticks and than really push he right way to get him on board with your strategy and build the right paths forward. I think to Getz credit - he has basically reserved money for investing in new coaching, enhanced developmental methods, changes across development programs...but very little in the way of major league money, if anything he's almost said - Jerry - I feel strongly about this and so much so that I'll actually underspend at big league level to show you the value. When over time it works, he builds the trust and moves on. But also - he has to know where JR has specific lines in the sand (ie long term deals to pitchers, 500M long term contracts) and basically build a sustainable org that fits those parameters - not one that is naive and pretends that somehow they can convince other way or live on 50 cents vs. the dollar. JR will spend money -but not in the way all of us want - and therefor Getz has to understand that and build a sustainable view that works within JR's framework (which I think with right leader and approach can happen - but in fairness - it isn't the easiest way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 5 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: At the time, it was painfully obvious to many of us. We retained the player who had just finished a career year after trading the one who had just finished a poor season. It was so damned stupid. It's challenging to support this team because being terrible is one thing, but being terrible and making poor decisions at the same time is quite another. As fans, we search for reasons to support teams, sometimes because we believe they will succeed in the future and other times because they are talented enough to take home a championship. We don't have either, and it absolutely kills any White Sox fandom I may have. I moved out from Chicago. I have to pay not only with my time but also with money to watch the White Sox. When I visit family, I have to set aside time to go to a Sox game. None of that is happening unless things change for me. So yeah, for me it isn't even like I am looking back angrily at the decision; it is just another reason to have zero faith in this group. Sometimes, even if you make the right choice, things won't work out. Prospects are going to fail. Heck, even calculated gambles trading Garrett Crochet early can still end up being wrong in the MLB when you look at how successful moderate payroll teams are built you need to not only make good decisions but also a certain amount of luck to be good. The team simply doesn't have the margin of error to keep making dumb decisions because of the budget they have. They need to be smarter than the large market teams to win and have a certain amount of good luck. In many ways we are already lucky due to the division we play in there are no Dodgers or the Yankees who are just going to lap everyone with their spending. The other problem is the Sox make trades for players without any kind of overall strategy or plan, as you can see when you look at the current rebuild. While some prospects have a three-year timeline, others are currently in the major leagues or ready to be called up. In order to have a cheap core to build around, the Sox need a large number of prospects to arrive at the same time if they hope to have a window of three to five years. To me, they seem to be completely clueless about what they are doing. So why waste time rooting for this garbage? I'd rather watch the Bears Literally the only reason to hold on to him was if you thought you would be good again in his window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 hours ago, Tony said: This is, once again, a Reinsdorf problem. When Jerry introduced Chris Getz to the media on August 31st, 2023, Reinsdorf said: "The conclusion I came to is what we owe our fans, and ourselves, is to not waste any time, we want to get better as fast as we possibly can. And if I had gone outside the organization, it would have taken at least a year to get familiar with everyone in the organization, and that would mean this (upcoming) year would not be a year of great progress." Additionally, there was this: Even if Getz wanted to trade Robert, I don't know if he would have been "allowed" to do it. I love revisiting these comments and then think about all the goobers on here who are pounding the table that "A long rebuild was always the plan" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 4 hours ago, T R U said: I suppose you could imagine a world where he took another step and was like a 7-8 WAR player which would obviously increase his value. Right, and that’s all I’m getting at. Most of us were dreaming pretty big after his 2023 season, where him taking another step didn’t seem all that far fetched at the time. To say now that AT BEST he was only going to maintain his current value, and not increase it, feels like hindsight to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 6 minutes ago, Snopek said: Right, and that’s all I’m getting at. Most of us were dreaming pretty big after his 2023 season, where him taking another step didn’t seem all that far fetched at the time. To say now that AT BEST he was only going to maintain his current value, and not increase it, feels like hindsight to me. Honestly, the way I interpreted his comment was if he was too valuable to trade at 4 years control left he would probably still be at minimum as valuable with 3 years control left but an increase in production. Which makes sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: I can't see anyway JR allows that to happen, if anything he's going to order the payroll cut even more next season due to the probable lock out disrupting the 2027 year. Counterpoint: actual payroll obligations should be 0 in 2027, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 18 minutes ago, T R U said: Honestly, the way I interpreted his comment was if he was too valuable to trade at 4 years control left he would probably still be at minimum as valuable with 3 years control left but an increase in production. Which makes sense to me. Ah, gotcha. That makes total sense then, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 24 minutes ago, T R U said: I love revisiting these comments and then think about all the goobers on here who are pounding the table that "A long rebuild was always the plan" Don't forget Getz being like "yeah, we could still compete cause it's the AL Central." Proceeds to get slaughtered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Here was JR after last season: To White Sox Fans, By all measures, our on-field performance this season was a failure. As the leader of this organization, that is my ultimate responsibility. There are no excuses. I want to thank you for continuing to support the team throughout what was an embarrassing season. You all deserved better. This season’s performance was completely unacceptable and the varying reactions and emotions from our fanbase are completely understandable. While embracing new ideas and outside perspectives, we will do everything we can to fix this for 2025 and the future. This will include further development of players on our current roster, development within our system, evaluating the trade and free agent markets to improve our ballclub and new leadership for our analytics department, allowing us to elevate and improve every process within our organization with a focus for competing for championships. In fact, change has already been happening in our baseball operations group throughout this past year. When named general manager in 2023, Chris Getz and his staff immediately began conducting a top-to-bottom evaluation of our existing operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Here was JR after last season: To White Sox Fans, By all measures, our on-field performance this season was a failure. As the leader of this organization, that is my ultimate responsibility. There are no excuses. I want to thank you for continuing to support the team throughout what was an embarrassing season. You all deserved better. This season’s performance was completely unacceptable and the varying reactions and emotions from our fanbase are completely understandable. While embracing new ideas and outside perspectives, we will do everything we can to fix this for 2025 and the future. This will include further development of players on our current roster, development within our system, evaluating the trade and free agent markets to improve our ballclub and new leadership for our analytics department, allowing us to elevate and improve every process within our organization with a focus for competing for championships. In fact, change has already been happening in our baseball operations group throughout this past year. When named general manager in 2023, Chris Getz and his staff immediately began conducting a top-to-bottom evaluation of our existing operations. Or basically, something a qualified GM could have been able to do going into 2024. I thought the point of going with Getz was so they could have expedited this process lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 I love that DA is receipt-keeping for this era of JR White Sox baseball lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 40 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Here was JR after last season: To White Sox Fans, By all measures, our on-field performance this season was a failure. As the leader of this organization, that is my ultimate responsibility. There are no excuses. I want to thank you for continuing to support the team throughout what was an embarrassing season. You all deserved better. This season’s performance was completely unacceptable and the varying reactions and emotions from our fanbase are completely understandable. While embracing new ideas and outside perspectives, we will do everything we can to fix this for 2025 and the future. This will include further development of players on our current roster, development within our system, evaluating the trade and free agent markets to improve our ballclub and new leadership for our analytics department, allowing us to elevate and improve every process within our organization with a focus for competing for championships. In fact, change has already been happening in our baseball operations group throughout this past year. When named general manager in 2023, Chris Getz and his staff immediately began conducting a top-to-bottom evaluation of our existing operations. What was he supposed to do, go on a two week bender? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: What was he supposed to do, go on a two week bender? There's a lot of BS in his statement. Of course there was a lot of BS in his reason to hire Getz. The real reasons probably were loyalty to JR and $. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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