White Sox @ Pirates - 9/8/20 - 6:05 CT

[maloney.adam]

The best thing the Sox can do is brush this one off there shoulders and come back swinging early out of the gate tomorrow.

[South Side Hit Men]

24 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Not according to fangraphs 

Seriously, for unlawful carnal knowledge fangraphs.

Bottom line is David Stearns and Farhan Zaidi have winning records and playoff success as General Managers, and Rick Hahn has one of the worst records in MLB (517-658 .440). Stearns paid Grandal to go away after last season, and Zaidi didn't consider resigning him once he became a free agent. They both had enough.

Catching Records

1. McCann 12-6 
2. Grandal 15-11 

The White Sox needed an outfielder and more pitching if they were to compete this year. Their current record is inflated by the heavy dose of garbage the COVID schedule provided. If it weren't for Abreu's recruitment of Cubans and Lucas Giolito's High School pitching coach, the Sox would have finished with yet another losing season.

Williams, Hahn, Renteria and Cooper all need to go, a complete redo from top to bottom just like the Bulls are doing. Will they wait for Jerry to finally leave his role, or until this window comes and goes before finally pulling the trigger, which they should have done after 2015? Likely the latter. I have no confidence in Hahn making the moves required to bring a championship. Hahn signed Renteria twice, the second time with an extension. These Friends of Jerry are long past their expiration date.

[maloney.adam]

Wow it’s funny after one loss the sky is falling. We’re still in first place people. Lmao

Edited September 9, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Jerksticks]

19 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Seriously, for unlawful carnal knowledge fangraphs.

Bottom line is David Stearns and Farhan Zaidi have winning records and playoff success as General Managers, and Rick Hahn has one of the worst records in MLB (517-658 .440). Stearns paid Grandal to go away after last season, and Zaidi didn't consider resigning him once he became a free agent. They both had enough.

Catching Records

1. McCann 12-6 
2. Grandal 15-11 

The White Sox needed an outfielder and more pitching if they were to compete this year. Their current record is inflated by the heavy dose of garbage the COVID schedule provided. If it weren't for Abreu's recruitment of Cubans and Lucas Giolito's High School pitching coach, the Sox would have finished with yet another losing season.

Williams, Hahn, Renteria and Cooper all need to go, a complete redo from top to bottom just like the Bulls are doing. Will they wait for Jerry to finally leave his role, or until this window comes and goes before finally pulling the trigger, which they should have done after 2015? Likely the latter. I have no confidence in Hahn making the moves required to bring a championship. Hahn signed Renteria twice, the second time with an extension. These Friends of Jerry are long past their expiration date.

Terrible post 

[fathom]

The Brewers were very interested in bringing back Grandal, Fyi

[greg775]

1 hour ago, aFrankSoxFan said:

I Luv Grandal ( hate Cordero ) but..... Ricky Must make a statement and play Mc Cann at catcher tomorrow. Be Ready  for any throw . Everyone knew the play was at the plate. EVERYONE !!!

Forget the statements. Not going to reprimand a veteran big money guy. Doesn't happen.

[tray]

A few  positives from the loss:

Madrigal's two doubles, especially the one to left center were hit hard. It is clear that Madrigal is going to add a lot to this line-up .

Cease looked good for the first 4 innings.

Abreu extended his hitting streak.

Moncada appeared to have a little bit more strength and ran a bit better.

McCann is now in a little bit  better position with the WSox to negotiate  a 3 year deal.

 

[hi8is]

Oops.

[hi8is]

34 minutes ago, tray said:

McCann is now in a little bit  better position with the WSox to negotiate  a 3 year deal.

Why?

( I had to stop watching today in the 6th. )

What happened relating to McCann??

Edited September 9, 2020 by hi8is
Oh... that.

[Stinky Stanky]

3 hours ago, sj91 said:

Brutal way to lose. Cordero should not be pitching in that high leverage of a situation. 

Shoulda put in Mariano but he's not on the team.

2 hours ago, JuliusO1274 said:

It was harder than it looked. It was a quick low throw and Cordero was so close he didn't have much time to react to it.

Jimmy tossed it wide and slow to the glove side and true, Yas was stretching, not in an athletic stance, and just plain didn't react in time.  He woulda been out, sez I and my ancient eyes.

[poppysox]

8 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

That was a bad loss for sure

We have had very few of these this year.  I am trying to be grateful I haven't had this feeling very often lately.

[Capital G]

I would love to know how some of you handle your own life outside of the White Sox. Do you get a promotion at work but stub your toe the next day and proclaim that your life sucks?

One loss after we own 4 in a row and if you read this thread in a vacuum you'd think the Sox were the worst team in baseball.

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Seriously, for unlawful carnal knowledge fangraphs.

Bottom line is David Stearns and Farhan Zaidi have winning records and playoff success as General Managers, and Rick Hahn has one of the worst records in MLB (517-658 .440). Stearns paid Grandal to go away after last season, and Zaidi didn't consider resigning him once he became a free agent. They both had enough.

Catching Records

1. McCann 12-6 
2. Grandal 15-11 

The White Sox needed an outfielder and more pitching if they were to compete this year. Their current record is inflated by the heavy dose of garbage the COVID schedule provided. If it weren't for Abreu's recruitment of Cubans and Lucas Giolito's High School pitching coach, the Sox would have finished with yet another losing season.

Williams, Hahn, Renteria and Cooper all need to go, a complete redo from top to bottom just like the Bulls are doing. Will they wait for Jerry to finally leave his role, or until this window comes and goes before finally pulling the trigger, which they should have done after 2015? Likely the latter. I have no confidence in Hahn making the moves required to bring a championship. Hahn signed Renteria twice, the second time with an extension. These Friends of Jerry are long past their expiration date.

On the plus side, it wasn't Colome that blew it?

Who ever would have expected Marshall and Detwiler to be high leverage relievers?  Cordero?

 

Otoh, stretching McRae out will be the late season equivalent of rostering Drew Anderson at some point soon...

Edited September 9, 2020 by caulfield12

[oldsox]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

On the plus side, it wasn't Colome that blew it?

Who ever would have expected Marshall and Detwiler to be high leverage relievers?  Cordero?

I don't understand your reference to Colome here.  However, he usually pitches the 9th, even when score is tied.

Good post by SSHM.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I don't understand your reference to Colome here.  However, he usually pitches the 9th, even when score is tied.

Good post by SSHM.

I mean I completely missed game due to teaching, and just opened the box score.

To me, this was a better way to lose than our established closer collapsing against the Pirates, who have actually been playing better recently.  Josh Bell and their RoY candidate LFer have been garbage for the majority of this season, fwiw. 

[SkokieSox]

Love Madrigal! With that said... his base running last night may have cost the game. Both throw outs are in him. 

[maloney.adam]

30 minutes ago, SkokieSox said:

Love Madrigal! With that said... his base running last night may have cost the game. Both throw outs are in him. 

Over time, he will learn from those mistakes because he’s still a rookie. The one play where he was thrown out at home was actually a very close play. That could’ve gone either way. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I still cannot get over why RR put Cordero in the game while Colome was warming up for over an inning.

[BigHurt3515]

44 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Over time, he will learn from those mistakes because he’s still a rookie. The one play where he was thrown out at home was actually a very close play. That could’ve gone either way. 

Agreed. Nick was able to get away with those plays in college and the minors easily, he will adjust hopefully

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Wow it’s funny after one loss the sky is falling. We’re still in first place people. Lmao

Even funnier is that people think we are going to fire the ENTIRE MANAGEMENT TEAM when we are literally fulfilling the promise of the rebuild, and are in first place with a bullet and the young kids performing out of their minds right now.  Its meatball theater at its finest.  Unless there is a COMPLETE collapse in the next three weeks, there isn't a damned person getting fired in this organization.  There isn't an organization in baseball that would fire its entire management team after having a transition season like this.

[southsider2k5]

10 hours ago, Tony said:

Just don’t come here after a loss. Normal posters turn into absolute children and have no idea how to rationalize anything. Happened for decades now.

QFT.  Fans have zero perspective on this season, or what it means to the future of the franchise.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, Capital G said:

I would love to know how some of you handle your own life outside of the White Sox. Do you get a promotion at work but stub your toe the next day and proclaim that your life sucks?
 

Well if one worked for the White Sox, they could suck at their job for decades, continue to get promotions, and create new positions to promote you two-three levels beyond one's competency, because one level is not how Jerry rolls. 

The last two seasons (2014-off-season - 2016 off-season) Hahn's two biggest trades while attempting to "win now" (WAR records with the acquiring team)

• December 2014; Traded Marcus Semien (18.8), Chris Bassitt (4.2) and Josh Phegley (2.9) for Jeff Samardzija (0.3).
• June 2016: Traded Fernando Tatis Junior (6.9) for James Shields (0.1).

Hahn had Top 10 draft picks despite trying to win, and these were his first round picks and next player selected:

• June 2015: #8 Carson Fulmer (-1.2 WAR), next player selected #9 Ian Happ (4.7).
• June 2016: #10 Zach Collins (-0.5 WAR), next player selected #11 Kyle Lewis (1.9).

Accountability:

• Blackhawks: John McDonogh Three Stanley Cup Championships: Fired by Rocky Wirtz in 2020
• Bulls: Gar Pax (Winning Record / Executive of the Year): Fired by Michael Reinsdorf in 2020
• Cubs: Joe Maddon World Series Champion: Contract not renewed in 2019

Vs. Friends of Jerry:

• Don Cooper (Hired 1988) - Pitchers go to their High School coach because, well what other choice do they have to improve.
• Kenny "One Shining Moment" Williams (Hired 2000 as GM, after a decade in other Friend of Jerry Roles).
• Rick Hahn (Hired in 2002, promoted to GM 2013). Hired Ricky Renteria in 2016. Liked him so much, promoted him in 2017 signed through 2020, then extended his contract again in 2019. See draft and trade results above for more of his work.

Edited September 9, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[35thstreetswarm]

46 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Well if one worked for the White Sox, they could suck at their job for decades, continue to get promotions, and create new positions to promote you two-three levels beyond one's competency, because one level is not how Jerry rolls. 

The last two seasons (2014-off-season - 2016 off-season) Hahn's two biggest trades while attempting to "win now" (WAR records with the acquiring team)

• December 2014; Traded Marcus Semien (18.8), Chris Bassitt (4.2) and Josh Phegley (2.9) for Jeff Samardzija (0.3).
• June 2016: Traded Fernando Tatis Junior (6.9) for James Shields (0.1).

Hahn had Top 10 draft picks despite trying to win, and these were his first round picks and next player selected:

• June 2015: #8 Carson Fulmer (-1.2 WAR), next player selected #9 Ian Happ (4.7).
• June 2016: #10 Zach Collins (-0.5 WAR), next player selected #11 Kyle Lewis (1.9).

Accountability:

• Blackhawks: John McDonogh Three Stanley Cup Championships: Fired by Rocky Wirtz in 2020
• Bulls: Gar Pax (Winning Record / Executive of the Year): Fired by Michael Reinsdorf in 2020
• Cubs: Joe Maddon World Series Champion: Contract not renewed in 2019

Vs. Friends of Jerry:

• Don Cooper (Hired 1988) - Pitchers go to their High School coach because, well what other choice do they have to improve.
• Kenny "One Shining Moment" Williams (Hired 2000 as GM, after a decade in other Friend of Jerry Roles).
• Rick Hahn (Hired in 2002, promoted to GM 2013). Hired Ricky Renteria in 2016. Liked him so much, promoted him in 2017 signed through 2020, then extended his contract again in 2019. See draft and trade results above for more of his work.

It's settled.  I'm going to stop watching the worthless Sox tear up the league and start looking forward to Hahn-free, sub-.500 Hawks and Bulls seasons.  And I must say it was so nice to watch the Cubs during our series last month:  there was just something so...ACCOUNTABLE about the the way they got their asses kicked all over the field.

[Stinky Stanky]

55 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Well if one worked for the White Sox, they could suck at their job for decades, continue to get promotions, and create new positions to promote you two-three levels beyond one's competency, because one level is not how Jerry rolls. 

The last two seasons (2014-off-season - 2016 off-season) Hahn's two biggest trades while attempting to "win now" (WAR records with the acquiring team)

• December 2014; Traded Marcus Semien (18.8), Chris Bassitt (4.2) and Josh Phegley (2.9) for Jeff Samardzija (0.3).
• June 2016: Traded Fernando Tatis Junior (6.9) for James Shields (0.1).

Hahn had Top 10 draft picks despite trying to win, and these were his first round picks and next player selected:

• June 2015: #8 Carson Fulmer (-1.2 WAR), next player selected #9 Ian Happ (4.7).
• June 2016: #10 Zach Collins (-0.5 WAR), next player selected #11 Kyle Lewis (1.9).

Accountability:

• Blackhawks: John McDonogh Three Stanley Cup Championships: Fired by Rocky Wirtz in 2020
• Bulls: Gar Pax (Winning Record / Executive of the Year): Fired by Michael Reinsdorf in 2020
• Cubs: Joe Maddon World Series Champion: Contract not renewed in 2019

Vs. Friends of Jerry:

• Don Cooper (Hired 1988) - Pitchers go to their High School coach because, well what other choice do they have to improve.
• Kenny "One Shining Moment" Williams (Hired 2000 as GM, after a decade in other Friend of Jerry Roles).
• Rick Hahn (Hired in 2002, promoted to GM 2013). Hired Ricky Renteria in 2016. Liked him so much, promoted him in 2017 signed through 2020, then extended his contract again in 2019. See draft and trade results above for more of his work.

Nitpicking a fine post here, but McDonough had as much to do with those championships as you and I did.

[southsider2k5]

56 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Well if one worked for the White Sox, they could suck at their job for decades, continue to get promotions, and create new positions to promote you two-three levels beyond one's competency, because one level is not how Jerry rolls. 

The last two seasons (2014-off-season - 2016 off-season) Hahn's two biggest trades while attempting to "win now" (WAR records with the acquiring team)

• December 2014; Traded Marcus Semien (18.8), Chris Bassitt (4.2) and Josh Phegley (2.9) for Jeff Samardzija (0.3).
• June 2016: Traded Fernando Tatis Junior (6.9) for James Shields (0.1).

Hahn had Top 10 draft picks despite trying to win, and these were his first round picks and next player selected:

• June 2015: #8 Carson Fulmer (-1.2 WAR), next player selected #9 Ian Happ (4.7).
• June 2016: #10 Zach Collins (-0.5 WAR), next player selected #11 Kyle Lewis (1.9).

Accountability:

• Blackhawks: John McDonogh Three Stanley Cup Championships: Fired by Rocky Wirtz in 2020
• Bulls: Gar Pax (Winning Record / Executive of the Year): Fired by Michael Reinsdorf in 2020
• Cubs: Joe Maddon World Series Champion: Contract not renewed in 2019

Vs. Friends of Jerry:

• Don Cooper (Hired 1988) - Pitchers go to their High School coach because, well what other choice do they have to improve.
• Kenny "One Shining Moment" Williams (Hired 2000 as GM, after a decade in other Friend of Jerry Roles).
• Rick Hahn (Hired in 2002, promoted to GM 2013). Hired Ricky Renteria in 2016. Liked him so much, promoted him in 2017 signed through 2020, then extended his contract again in 2019. See draft and trade results above for more of his work.

Its almost like you have been here before...