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I will be disappointed if Renteria's contract is renewed. Girardi is out there - no idea if he would be interested, but the Sox should be trying to get him.

So you cite a guy who was an awful defender who somehow got good as proof of what exactly? That doesn’t show Moncada can get better? I’m not sure I get your angle here other than the relentless b****fest over Moncada.

I'm not a fan of how Moncada high fived his teammates in the victory line. Very concerning IMO. Send him to Winston-Salem for a few days, teach him a lesson.

It’s very rare for a player to just come into the league and be a stud. Not just for the Sox but for every organization. Guys need time to develop. And if for those who think Moncada is a bust, he’s been a 2.5 WAR player with the Sox. That’s really impressive with him not being a finished product.

Today is the 162nd game played in the big leagues for Moncada. My guess is 163 to 324 will be a lot better. He’s too good not to improve a lot.

All of this, what you said, is wrong.

1. Abreu and Garcia have either damaged their trade value this year, or it has remained low. They are distressed assets right now. 2. I don't think anyone was going to pay the appropriate price for Sanchez. He has many years of cheap team control remaining and that makes him a useful asset even to the White Sox. 3. I could agree in acquiring more distressed assets, but I have no issue with the White Sox passing on Osuna and would encourage the White Sox to continue passing on guys like that. 4. No one was giving up a major prospect for Soria + Fry + Avilan. Fry, for example, might even be a distressed asset of the sort you speak. 5. I don't like the idea of giving up prospects for a distressed asset like Pham, and the Rays actually gave things up to get him. Jake Peter...fine he's not doing anything for us, but the Rays gave up 3 players including the guy who was their #10 prospect coming into the season for Pham. 6. Finally, you need playing time for these distressed assets. It makes no sense to acquire a middle infield distressed asset right now. We could do so in the bullpen, but name some names rather than hypotheticals.

No but it's pretty evident around here that you get off on whining about Moncada and tries so hard to get people so whine with you, and you put that over your fandom for the White Sox, which is questionable at this point. Your posts are negative in nature and do not carry any insight behind it other than constant whining about the same thing.

You are insufferable

FWIW the thing that pushes Schwarber's D into the positive is the arm component, which is the hardest part to keep afloat in the long haul as runners wise up. And IMO Statcast has the best method for grading outfielders on their ability to catch the ball. It does not make Schwarber look good at all. This is of course an apples to oranges comparison because we know Yoan Moncada would be a better LF than Kyle Schwarber. And is Yoan getting better or worse on defense? It's hard to say quantitatively. What I will say is he had a run of bad errors that coincided with the depths of his batting slump. I think those kinds of things are the most easily corrected class of fielding problems. His UZR range component has been consistently good and I believe that to be the hardest thing to improve for an infielder — it's kind of like trying to get a guy to run faster. His double play component of both UZR and DRS has improved. I see some upside for an above average defender in Yoan, perhaps even better than that. He so far has struggled with committing errors, so the downside is that he's below average. I tend to think he'll be about average when it all washes out as he probably doesn't have the hands to avoid some simple errors but has the athleticism and arm strength to make up for it with good plays. Last, the idea that Yoan is presently *bad* overall is nonsense. If this Yoan Moncada is all he'll ever be, he's a middle of the road MLB player and could play up in a platoon in the right roster configuration. He's already better than Gordon Beckham ever was at 2B. By Sox standards, that means he has 4-6 seasons ahead of him before we close the books.

Or maybe they simply took BPA? ?‍♂️

Nah, more like we spent the 4th pick on Darwin Barney 2.0

This clown better be fired the second the season ends.

I don't think Yoan has swung at a single fastball today. Great approach against someone who throws so many fastballs.

If you hate bunts, you don't want guys like Ozzie, Renteria, or Vizquel managing your team.

I bet you he didn't walk to Winston-Salem

Agreed. Once they started down the total rebuild process, you have to have the patience to see it through, no matter how painful.

No. Just no. Have some patience people. This isn't an overnight process, and it was never meant to be one. That kind of mentality is what everyone seemed to want to stop two years ago.

The problem is the whole sustained excellence thing. If Eloy and Kopech are brought up before the super 2 passes they will still be here though 2024 correct ? If they are going to be really good and the Sox are going to be really good I'll just guess it should be 20-24 which for our franchise would be 4 years of sustained excellence and hopefully a World Series win in that time, So 2025 would be their free agent years ? Again just not 100% clear. So let me assume we sign some good free agents and some other minor leaguers pan out pretty well also. The Sox have always acted like a mid market team when it comes to salaries and if there are some free agent contracts along with Kopech and Eloy poised for big paydays also how long can the Sox realistically sustain excellence ? Of course there will be potholes along the way even in winning seasons that will require spending more and trading prospects at the trade deadline to have a better chance of winning a World Series. I know extensions can be signed and there's also a labor problem potentially smack-dab in the middle of the competitive window and even a possible sale of the team. MY long winded point ? Is it really such a big deal to have that extra year of control when so much else will be going on between now and then ? The Sox clearly CAN keep them down til super 2 but why if they are ready ? Management should never yield its upper hand like a hammer when it comes to highly paid and skilled individuals. It might be selfish to want them up now but it's just as selfish to want to hold them back for the extra year hoping to extent the competitive window. The Sox will be lucky to have at max a 5 year competitive window . How long was the Royal competitive window ? Who do the Sox operate more like, the Royals , Cubs or Astro's ? Maybe that's a more important question. "Checking the boxes" has now become a running joke ( or a meme) as you kids like to call it. And why is it a joke ? Because everyone knows Eloy is ready and probably becomes the best hitter the Sox have. Raise your hand if you were in a similar situation if it wouldn't make you angry.

The major league roster will tell you where we are. As long as only the tip of the iceberg in terms of rebuild talent is in Chicago, it is going to be bad. There are literally 3 of the bigger pieces here. The rest are still fighting their way through the minors. Until we clear out the placeholder talent, it will be bad. But again, that is what a rebuild looks like. It takes time for these guys to get here, learn on the job, and figure out how to win.

A 23 year old Cuban middle infielder under a ton of scrutiny having mental lapses in the field. Shocking

Luckily the defensive part is an easy fix, and the stuff he does well is stuff you can't really teach. And he has looked infinitely better against lefties as the season has gone on

Amazing how far a contact lens can travel. I was putting one in this morning, and it didn't feel right. I couldn't tell if it was in. I could see, but not great. But it seemed better than without my lenses. But maybe not. I had no idea. So, I looked in the sink. On the floor. Back in my eye (maybe it folded up or slipped under my eyelid). Nothing. And I still couldn't tell if it was in. I started searching the floor again. Somehow it had fallen about five feet behind me. I don't know if it flew over my head, through my torso, between my legs,.... Whatever the case, they should start building cars and airplanes in the shape of contact lenses. The aerodynamics are unmatched.

Here’s Moncada’s line since Jul 1st: 15.9% BB rate, 25.7% K rate, .202 ISO, .306 BABIP, .244/.363/.447/.810, 124 wRC+ If we can see that type of offenizve production going forward, we’re already looking at a 4 to 5 WAR player. And the reality is there is room for improvement with some postive BABIP regression, increased power, and strides against LHP pitching. All this as a 23 year old with some of the loudest tools in baseball. I really don’t see why so many people are down on him at the moment.

Sox actually do hit critical mass and win 2+ World Series. Sox beat the Cubs in the World Series These are literally the only ways the Sox can win over mass amounts of new and/or casual fans. Most of the current generation is fucked. My one buddy at work was old enough to be stoked when the Sox won in 05, but still ended up a Cubs fan. The Cubs have beaten the Sox handily at winning over the majority of the Chicago fanbase, and it will take decades to repair the damage that's been done to the Sox fanbase. This may sound crazy, but it might be an absolute must that this rebuild works, for the sake of the Sox future in Chicago. I don't know how sustainable it will be for the Sox to fail at the rebuild and as a result continue to draw like they currently do.

typical strike zone against Moncada

Lot of straw arguments going on in here. It's not that you expect a player to magically become worse while dominating AAA. The question is *when* will he be reaching his potential in MLB. A guy with an 1.100 OPS in AAA is probably not getting more prepared to hit MLB pitching while he's in AAA. So long as that is true, you're not just delaying the time when he becomes a free agent but also the time when he's a player that's going to carry your team. Maybe he's going to be great as soon as he is called up, but maybe he'll need a year or two or three. While some have written off Moncada already, it's very plausible that by this time next year he's setting the world on fire and we'll be glad that we have him ready to go in mid-2019 rather than being right in the middle of taking his lumps at that point. As for the specific situation with Eloy, the more the Sox bide their time the less sense it makes to call him up. That being said, I think with all else being equal he could benefit particularly by having a couple months of MLB experience and then an offseason to deal with whatever happens in those 2 months. He can get that experience and then has an extended time to see what adjustments he has to make, adjustments that may be hard to implement in the middle of his rookie season. Depending on what the Sox see, it can also help them in their planning with regard to player acquisition to see just how ready he is.

I'm having difficulty seeing the process anymore. First of all we definately should have been more active in FA bringing in ML guys who have a chance to rebound. We really only made one deal that follows that line of thinking Soria where we easily came out ahead. Two, we didn't move the guys we should have Avilian, Cedeno, Frye, Abreu, Garcia (both), all should have been moved. Sanchez should have been moved. We should have been looking at acquiring distressed assets like Pham. Osuna. Look at what Hand went for we should have attempted to package Soria/Frye/Avilian with some of our guys to get a major prospect back. So far depending on what happens after the non-waiver deadline it's been a lost year. If the plan is to just suck without stockpiling assets and taking chances on other teams distressed assets we are going to be waiting for a long time.

How many bats did Marl Beurhle miss

Super 2 is a different deadline than the extra year of control. If the White Sox keep Kopech and Jiminez in the minors through the date in April next year, then they will be free agents following the 2025 season. Their setup will go like this: 2019: pre-arb 2020: pre-arb 2021: pre-arb 2022: Arb1 2023: Arb2 2024: Arb3 2025: Arb4 The super 2 deadline is the deadline where that Arb1 year converts to a pre-arb year. That will probably be passed in June of next year, we already passed it for this year. Because the player reaches arbitration fewer times, they make less money in this case. 2019: pre-arb 2020: pre-arb 2021: pre-arb 2022: pre-arb 2023: Arb1 2024: Arb2 2025: Arb3 If they are called up right now, the schedule is as follows: 2018: pre-arb 2019: pre-arb 2020: pre-arb 2021: pre-arb 2022: Arb1 2023: Arb2 2024: Arb3 (Unless they are signed to an extension).

This has been so much worse than I was imagining, and i had prepared myself for backsliding. Developing multiple young pitchers at once sucks when you get that bad tail end of it.

I'm 72 and grew up and long for the good old days of the GO GO SOX era when we outdrew the Cubs between 1951 and 1967 and Chicago was a Sox town.

He doesn't seem to be the type of guy that is going to get too shaken up by it. He literally laughed it off.

I think the next 55 games will be rough. So don't know if this is rock bottom. But I expect the Sox to be MUCH improved in 2019. Probably not contention improved, but at least flirt with .500 for most of the year.

I'm 56 and the Cubs have always had more fans. Just start winning and every thing will be okay.

Been following him for 2 years now and all he does is get guys out. Between Flores and Medieros, we should be fine from the left side.

I was at the game on Sunday and there were tons of Toronto fans that helped fill the park up. Their fans travel well apparently.

I agree. I'm rooting hard for the Cubs to win 84-86 games the next few seasons. Nothing could change the casual fan's mind better than the Sox starting to rise and the Cubs stagnating in mediocrity.

i think for the Sox it needs to be win AND have the cubs start to fade.

What in the world does Tatis have to do with anything?

Make that two hits and two walks. On base 4/5 AB’s tonight. OPS up to .722. FOF should call him out more often. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Moncada perform well down the stretch and finish with a mid-700’s OPS. For comparison, Baez finished with a .737 OPS in 2016 (also his first full MLB season at age 23). Patience is needed here.

Seriously, I'm so tired of every thread getting bogged down by the same 3-4 posters, "old man yells at cloud" nonsense. We get it, you guys hate the White Sox front office and every decision they make, but you don't need to derail every. single. conversation. to make your opinion heard.

I'm happy to lose in the interest of a rebuild. You're the one suggesting that the Sale trade is worth more than it is. Maybe you can come back in 2020 when the team is ready to compete? I promise not to say I told you so then.

You are guilty as charged.

Yes, the return on the trade of Chris Sale does not matter. You are so right. Such an irrational thought for a White Six fan to have. ??‍♂️

Excited to watch Davidson pitch tonight

Keep picking up those games on KC boys!

If this is the clear right path, then how much did we cost ourselves by bringing Moncada and others up last year....and how many times do we have to overlook mistakes from the same people?

People actually want to trade a full year of 28 year old Eloy for 2 months of 21 year old Eloy, on a team destined for at least 95 losses.

Yes and aren't we the fanbase that b****ed about the team rushing the players for a decade? Now letting them get more time in AAA is counterproductive? Something doesn't add up...