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Listening to the FG podcast now and here are some of the relevant draft notes: -- Again compared Vaughn to Konerko, though stated a scout said that might be light. Brought up the point that it seems like some of Vaughn's "struggles" (compared to last year) are because his lineup is so weak that he is getting pitched around so he is changing his approach just to try and help his team win. Might be a 55 FV. -- Abrams got a comp to Kenny Lofton; similar swing, 80 runner, sneaky power that is currently a gap guy. 55 raw now with probable 60 future when he fills out, but not the swing or approach to tap into it currently. Probably projects to 60 hit, 40 power, but because he is more raw than Witt there is more room for changes and adjustments. Some scouts said he is an 80 runner with 60 power, which basically doesn't exist in the minors outside of Jordyn Adams who projects to 60 power. Is kind of like Xavier Edwards from last years draft, but just more of everything (explosiveness, size, power). High variance where he goes in the top 10. -- Witt comped to Trevor Story. Enough hit to get to the big power in game, good defensive short, good athlete. 60 now power, 65 future with the swing and approach to tap into it. -- Bleday has a traditional right field profile with a little more feel to hit than that. Fast moving college hitter. More quick notes on other guys in the top half of the first that I don't think we really need to know about. About draft strategies and rumors: -- It seems like Witt is the pick at #2. -- If true, the O's could use it to leverage Vaughn or Rutschman into underslot because otherwise they would fall to #3. (If people want craziness, they should hope Vaughn is willing to go underslot more than Rutschman and the O's take him #1, Royals stick to Witt #2, and the we get Rutschman.) -- D-backs are everywhere. No idea if they are going prep or college heavy or just preparing for everything. -- The last final month is when you can really tell who teams are on with personnel at games, so expect more of that.

This is some serious 20/20 bullshit right here from you fathom.

Everything you posted is correct, and true. However, what has bothered me about this stupid move was that those mouth-breathing morons in the front office thought: 1. The shitty 2016 roster that they dropped on us, AND 2. the shitty, moronic manager who never wanted to be here, and wasn't even a HEAD coach in HS, 3. Collectively had a snowball's chance in hell of competing. In other words, KW/RH/JR are all collectively too stupid to tell the difference between a GOOD team, and a poor one. So set aside that anyone with a 3-digit IQ and working eyes could have seen that Shields was one of the suckiest sucks that ever sucked. Set aside that Shields could have/SHOULD have been gotten for mere money/salary relief/NO prospect equity. The people still running this org are simply too dumb to do their jobs. They were dumb in 2016, and I see little to suggest that they've gotten smarter since then. FFS, the squandering of resources on turds like Jay and Alonzo and others, and then whining about the price tag for Machado reinforces the idea that they don't know a good player from a poor one. THAT'S what truly hurts about this idiotic, moronic, and dumb trade. RH/KW/JR ALL deserve a verbal beating for being fucking morons. And yes, Tatis' likely ascension to stardom will be the constant reminder that we have imbeciles running this team [into the ground].

Robert 3B

BA has updated their board to top 500 and done some shuffling. Also updated reports. Paywalled. Will post the top 10 and some reports on potential targets. Also willing to post further stuff if anyone has specific questions. https://www.baseballamerica.com/rankings/2019-top-mlb-draft-prospects/ Number in parenthesis indicates previous rank. Looks like Witt Jumped Vaughn. Bleday moved up 4 spots and Langeliers has jumped a bunch too. 1.) Adley Rutschman (1) 2.) Bobby Witt Jr (3) 3.) Andrew Vaughn (2) 4.) CJ Abrams (4) 5.) Riley Greene (5) 6.) JJ Bleday (10) 7.) Hunter Bishop (8) 8.) Nick Lodolo (7) 9.) Shea Langeliers (17) 10.) Bryson Stott (9)

“I knew someone would research facts to show I’m wrong. Now go do some more research and find something, anything, that proves me right.”

No one can convince me to miss Avi goddam Garcia

You can say it to whoever you want, I don't care. I'm not here telling everyone the front office made a bad decision by not retaining Avi due to multiple circumstances, among them being less than stellar production and injury history. He was a let down, he had one good season and a bunch of ok to bad seasons. I'm not sad he is gone because I was sick of waiting for him to arrive. The front office has made a SHIT TON of bad decisions, I'm not hear to defend them. But I agree with this decision regardless of how he performs this year

Nothing Garcia does this year changes the logic with him. 1. If Garcia makes it through this year healthy it will be the first time in his career (and another indictment of our training staff). 2. If the White Sox had offered Garcia arbitration, he would have made something like $8-9 million this year. No team was wiling to give him more than $3.5 million as a free agent. No team believed in him that much. He was basically McCann level. 3. If the White Sox had offered him $4 million as a free agent they could have retained him, but signing outfielders to 1 year deals as a free agent is just dumb for this franchise. If Avi was doing great for us right now, what difference does it make, are we competitive for the Wild Card, does he make us a rival for the AL Central? Are corner outfielders hugely valued on the trade market in July? 4. If everything worked out great for that signing, Avi still walks away as a free agent next offseason because no one is offering him a $18 million qualifying offer. You can tell me that signing Avi for $4 million would have been better than signing another outfielder for $4 million and forgetting to give him a physical and that's true, but signing any outfielder for $4 million was a dumb move for a rebuilding franchise that spent the offseason crying about how they're too poor to extend their core roster.

You can’t spend a dollar when you only have fifty cents.

Being scared of an 80 runner with 60 raw power because we don't know that our org is competent enough to provide the tweaks to tap into it...sucks so much.

I’m here at the Kannapolis, will be at the Charlotte game tonight.

Serious question: if the rebuild “works,” i.e. Moncada, Anderson, Gio and Lopez continue to improve, Eloy mashes, some handful of prospects (probably Robert and Cease, maybe Kopech) comes up and contributes, we add a couple free agents and start making playoff runs in 2020-2021, will those of you who are down on Hahn change your minds? Or have past moves made him irredeemable in your eyes? I ask because for me Hahn’s grade is “incomplete,” as my ultimate impression of the job Hahn is doing is 100% tied to the rebuild. If it works on a reasonable timetable I’ll give him credit, regardless of how frustrated I may be with this off-season/the Tatis trade, etc. if it doesn’t, he’s got to go. But it feels like some of you have formed opinions that are so strong they’ll never be changed, and that may be divorced from the success of the team on the field.

You can't say Plz stop to Shields one post after saying Fulmer is coming up

Considering I'm a sponsor of this thread apparently you know I'm not a Hahn fan, but nothing Garcia does this year changes the logic with him. 1. If Garcia makes it through this year healthy it will be the first time in his career (and another indictment of our training staff). 2. If the White Sox had offered Garcia arbitration, he would have made something like $8-9 million this year. No team was wiling to give him more than $3.5 million as a free agent. No team believed in him that much. 3. If the White Sox had offered him $4 million as a free agent they could have retained him, but signing outfielders to 1 year deals as a free agent is just dumb for this franchise. If Avi was doing great for us right now, what difference does it make, are we competitive for the Wild Card, does he make us a rival for the AL Central? Are corner outfielders hugely valued on the trade market in July? 4. If everything worked out great for that signing, Avi still walks away as a free agent next offseason because no one is offering him a $18 million qualifying offer. You can tell me that signing Avi for $4 million would have been better than signing another outfielder for $4 million and forgetting to give him a physical and that's true, but signing any outfielder for $4 million was a dumb move for a rebuilding franchise that spent the offseason crying about how they're too poor to extend their core roster.

Have you even read the thread? Hahn paid more for Jon Jay than Avi and Jay hasn’t even suited up yet for the Sox yet. ?

This may be an excuse for Avisail but not for Hahn. Hahn spent more guaranteed money ($4 million) on Jon Jay than Avisail cost ($3.5 million), and Jay hasn’t even suited up yet for the Sox. Hahn blew another signing, period. There is zero positive spin on this, as much as you try to defend it. You guys are absolutely ridiculous homers to even entertain this defense of Hahn and the Sox. Avisail at 27 was much younger than Jay at 34 and was a much better bet to improve on a one year deal but Hahn decided to sign Jay for more money because he has zero foresight and is a terrible GM.

He was clearly hurt all last year. In a non-contending season, there was no reason not to see if he could showcase some of the improved skills from 2017. God knows they wasted enough money this past offseason when they could have kept him around. Also, I think it’s so telling he’s finally a good defensive player now that he’s joined another organization.

Honestly, who's to say that if Avi stayed here that he'd A) be hitting like he is now and B) even stayed healthy to do it to this point? We all know that he had the talent in him to do something like this, but he was just never able to consistently put it together here. If Avi was having another one of his patented Avi-like seasons no one would care that he's gone. Hell, even if he stayed here and performed like his usual self everyone here would be wanting to drive him to the airport 2 weeks ago. It's nice to see him doing well, sucks that he couldn't do it more often here, but it seemed to be time for both parties to go their separate ways IMO.

Another brilliant decision by the front office

https://www.mlb.com/news/avisail-garcia-hits-471-foot-hr-for-rays Wouldn't this be nice to have in right field now? What would it have cost to have kept him? A couple million more than we're paying Nate Jones? Probably not even that much. A three million more than what the White Sox are paying Jon Jay? Less than what we're paying Yonder Alonso, that's for sure.

I understand this, but I wasn't making an argument, I was putting out a hypothetical question based on previous history of his here. Hypothetically had he been brought back, he may have very well come into the season fully healthy and posted the same numbers. Or he may not have. It's something we'll never know. And like I said in my original post, I'm glad he's doing well and it sucks he couldn't do it here more often, but it seemed to be time to move on for both parties. You don't need to agree with that view, it's just how I see the situation. Everything on a message board isn't about winning arguments per se, it can be about posing questions for discussion purposes.

Dick-Man is his traditional name around these parts

You make your own luck to a certain degree. Sick and tired of the excuses.

Robert double.

It’s honestly gotten to the point where I can’t check these box scores anymore. This player development staff should be wiped clean after this year because this season has been an absolute disaster.

I think it's a contractual obligation for that guy.

I am not a Crowley guy but that isn’t surprising. JR is a very smart man, but everyone has weaknesses. I think he has a problem admitting being wrong, which a lot of us have, and he loves the I told you so. When the Sox won the division in 1983, JR was focused on calling the long gone Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall scumbags. When they won it in 2000’ JR is in the clubhouse telling the media how wrong everyone was about the white flag trade. He is hoping he can tell people he was right and the obvious was wrong with both his teams now, GarPax success is based on beating unbelievable odds and landing DRose. If that never happened, would they have ever been more than a 6 or 7 seed? A lot is going to have to go right for it not to continue.

Other than Robert and a couple weeks of Bush, it’s scary how bad our top hitting prospects have been performing for first 6 weeks of the season. I know it’s somewhat early, but God Dam this is dreadful. Hopefully we see some numbers change once it warms up. If it doesn’t big changes need to happen with getting rid of Getz and company. I know he’s been here a short time, but haven’t been impressed. White Sox need to go after player development personnel from top organizations. also see what the Dodgers are doing on the medical side with keeping their players healthy and guys coming back to their top form after major injuries.

It’s not just offensively that Garcia is contributing, either, as he has been one of the better defenders in the outfield as well. Not just the Rays outfield, any outfield. Garcia has totaled 3 DRS, which puts him among the top 22 qualifying outfielders in the game, despite having played a significantly lower number of innings with the glove. Furthermore, Statcast has Garcia rated at 4 outs above average, which is fourth in the majors (Kevin Kiermaier is first with 7). from https://www.draysbay.com/2019/5/15/18624814/avisail-garcia-tampa-bay-rays-2019 So currently he can beat you with his glove, his speed, his arm ,his power , his batting average and OBP. What do they call those kind of guys again . Oh yeah a 5 tool player. No problem Sox have a ton of guys just like him .

Some times you come up with a gem. 2017 was a good year for Avi and 2018 he was starting to hit more HR's. He also was becoming an adequate fielder. Many times you see people here calling him a terrible fielder . Maybe that was true at first but it wasn't by the time he left and isn't true now. You will also see people here throwing around $8-10M for what it would've cost to keep Avi. Unless I'm wrong you can non tender a guy then resign him. As was pointed out by Moan4Yoan the Sox misdirected attempt to sign Machado by signing Jay and others are little things that sabotage the rebuild .Sox could've resigned Avi for Jay money and put in a few option years in case he got back to 2017 level or hit for less average but more HR's. You are in a rebuild and you get rid of a 27 year old who could still put it all together and replace him with a 34 year old who's best days are long gone ? Did the front office not think any of our young core could have breakout seasons and contend this year ? Yoan , Timmy, Giolito and Lopez along with the hitting of McCann and Abreu makes the lack of effort to sign FA's just look like incompetence, or lack of foresight and even worse you don't believe in your young core. Even if you non tender Avi and fail at Machado why not sign Brantley , a starting pitcher and another reliever in a crap division and see how it goes ? Yea he got hurt a lot and even though I had always supported Avi I was fine with non tendering him because I thought maybe we get Machado, or Brantley. Brantley gets hurt a lot too but there was no denying his talent and consistency when he was healthy. He's already got 2.1 WAR . Houston signed Brantley, Dodgers signed another always injured OFer in Pollock, Tampa Bay signed Avi. Those are 3 well respected front offices with teams in contention and in Tampa Bay's case a team that can't spend like L.A. Avi didn't need a wakeup call he just needed to stay healthy.

I’ve considered him an option for next year via free agency, to be honest. RF looks like a glaring hole going forward.

Actually right move would have been using the 9 million on Avi instead of Alonso if you knew you were half-assing the Manny sweepstakes and then put Palka at DH. So many on here were happy that Avi was let go because they thought it meant a better free agent would be taking his place. Instead we have to see a bunch of garbage get at bats all season in RF.

JR does not compute

Here @Harold's Leg Lift. The closest you might get to Witt in a Sox jersey.

Post draft go nuts. Its just money.

Avi Garcia is not good, was not a part of the future, and I am glad the Sox are not wasting more at bats on him. Yes I would rather watch some combination of Cordell, Tilson, Leury and Delmonico over Avi.

Lack of accountability has been a problem in White Sox Land.

I think that would be a fabulous use of money.

With all due respect this is unfair and in greg's opinion, a very poor take. We're to the point we hate Avi so much we just decide, 'Ah he was no good he wouldn't be doing that in Chicago.' That was a BOMB. I worship Avi and congratulate him for that blast. The guy was run out of town by a front office that didn't respect him and fans who don't respect their own (not everybody, but many). I mean Avi Garcia when healthy is a very very very good hitter. Yes he gets hurt which seemingly a lotta players do. Love you Avi Garcia. You don't make a ton of money but enough you and your family are all set for life 10 times over.

Obviously this sucks and the Bulls need all the luck they can get but of the four teams currently in the Conference Finals there’s exactly one top 5 pick playing (Durant). Brooks Lopez is the only lottery pick starter in the ECF and he was at 10. I feel like people overrate draft position.

He was like 3+ years younger than any other player at each level lol.

They already have in a sense, his name was Santana. I can't believe I'm saying this but would they consider bringing back James Shields who threw for some teams last week?

I like Abreu but it would be so like Hahn to spend a big chunk of change on a 33 year old 1B. Unless he wants to sign for a hometown discount, trade him for a decent prospect. A good GM should be able to find a decent 1B all over the place. Oh wait, I said “a good GM.”

It was a bad trade, we lost,but I predict Tatis Jr. not to be as dominant a hitter as everyone thinks.

God I hate this shit. Just man up. YOU'RE THE FUCKING GM. HAVE SOME PRIDE IF YOUR "VISION" IS BEING NEGATED THAN FUCKING RESIGN. Sadly I've come to realize that while a smart guy and a smooth talker Hahn is just a yes man like Gar that doesn't really bring any real skills to the job other than perhaps contract negotiation. There is a reason that JR has setup the Bulls and Sox in similar ways. If nobody is in charge, nobody can be blamed!

Kenny Bad. Hahn worse

RIP Tim Conway, 85 He was very funny.

We already have 3 guys with TOR stuff. We already have a top catcher and Collins looks like his time is now. Madrigal is your 2 nd baseman but might need to go outside if more time is needed. Right field is covered if Robert makes the club. Most question I have would be Madrigal & Robert but I'm in the group who move them faster. I'm not at all against trades or free agency. Just trying to show where are floor is.

I actually feel the exact opposite of this. There is no way in hell that this rebuild will succeed without significant help from outside the organization. This team needs to add a TOR arm, catcher, second baseman, Right Fielder, DH, and a couple more bullpen arms if it wants to compete next year.