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If mods don't know what this means google it on the urban dictionary. If this crap is allowed to stand, this is going to get ugly because I am ready to fire back.

I really hope they aren’t planning to call up Robert & Madrigal. Please don’t listen to those whiny SoxMachine b****es like Pnoles and stay the course.

Why would anyone still want Robert called up this season?

Vaughn HR

Whoever decided to put Ron's name in the thread title it's like giving an alcoholic a bottle of liquor. I know some of you think the guy is likable but he's becoming a glorified troll and they are at best ignored .

Well first and foremost, we're conditioned to expect that. Why? Because in the last decade we've seen 2 expensive DHs on this very team basically do that to the letter: Dunn put up one of the worst seasons in MLB history and LaRoche was so bad we're glad he retired. Both of them produced better than Abreu did this season and then fell apart the next year. Worse still, fastball velocities have gone up league wide, especially since the Dunn signing, so if the thing that causes guys to fall off a cliff is that they slow down too much with age, the risk is still quite high that this player will hit a cliff at some point. Given our recent history with the DH position it'd be more surprising to us if he didn't fall apart than if he did. Secondly...we already have seen substantial declines from Abreu. You like batting average, his batting average has dropped a lot. His strikeout rate has gone up. He's swinging hard to still hit home runs, but if that last skill starts to weaken he has nothing left. So already he's not nearly the hitter he was 3 years ago and we shouldn't pay him as though he is. Third, you haven't bothered to understand any of people's actual discussion of Abreu, which isn't exactly surprising considering you don't bother to understand most things people write to you. While he may not fall off a cliff next year, or the year after, it is also not unreasonable to expect his performance to continue to take steps downwards, as we've seen this season. That may not happen, he may have a career year left in him, but people don't want to pay him with the expectation he'll have a career year and you don't want to lock yourself into him if he does continue the path downwards he's already ono. If we had a great lineup in 2021 and Abreu took a major step back that year, playing him every day at DH because he's well paid could be the thing that costs us the division. So, just about everyone is ok with bringing him back for 1 year at the right price. A number of us are ok with 2 years or 1 year and an option for a 2nd year. Almost everyone who looks at this says that if he wants anything beyond that, he's going to have to hit the next 2 years because no team in baseball would sign him to a 3 year deal when his performance has already dropped off a lot. Also a lot of us understand that his free agent value right now is something like $10-$12 million on a 1 year deal, so anything beyond that is over-paying for a guy, and under Reinsdorf's roster, overpaying 1 guy means we have other guys we can't sign.

OK then we agree cause Passan says he should be paid just what Vile and I said he should be paid. I am Vile's mini me. ... One shot on Passan by me: There are a ton of guys who can hit 30 HR and get on base 32 percent of the time? The Sox haven't found too many of those guys thru history.

You can also still win a batting title if you don't reach the qualifying PA's. Your average, for leaderboard purposes, is just calculated as if you had enough hitless at bats to reach the qualifying mark. Tony Gwynn did so in '96.

And who would that replacement be? Do Robert or Mandrigal play 1st base? I didn't know that. Is it A. J. Reed in AAA? Is it Sheets in AA with his .261 average and his .763 OPS? No wait, it's Vaughn. He was the best batter in college ball last year (I hear that quote over and over). He is dominating Single A pitching to the toon of batting .250 with a OPS of .765. Is he gonna be in the majors next year? . . . nope. Or the year after that . . . nope. Probably by 2022, but not a sure thing. And by then Abreu, as history strongly indicates, will have 60 more career home runs and about 200 more career RBIs. Pay the man what he has earned and deserves.

There is also a tangible benefit to experience the MLB for a month to have them better prepared for next year.

Craig Dedelow just made two outs in an inning...and they were the second and third outs of the inning. You don’t see that very often.

Rodriguez 3-3, 2 R Gladney 3-3, 3 RBIs, R Glass 2-2, HBP

If you listen to the sox talk podcast that hahn was on, he explains the reasoning behind it and it makes sense. Obviously something worked because look at Collins now. Destroying the league. Just because the organization makes decisions that don't make sense to us fans doesn't mean they are wrong. I'm sure there was a plan with Collins from the start before the called him up and I'm sure he knew how it was going to work.

116 mph

Madrigal is now batting .321 with a .823ops in Triple-A.

Madrigal double, triple, walk

I don't even look at the ball. That swing and bat drop makes me feel dirty things.

That's McCannon to you, Mister.

Baseball statistics are cited based on their outcomes/outputs. They aren't based on a percentage change of their rates. By citing it that way you are trying to misrepresent the point and change. This is actually exactly what I was talking about earlier regarding using statistics in a way that doesnt reflect the story just because it better supports your point. When I need a lesson on relative change from an internet message board I'll go ahead and retire.

Collins BOMB.

Madrigal 2 RBI double. Hit it off the big wall in LF.

It has nothing to do with the future, but while everyone is critical of Jose Abreu, let me remind people what an absolute steal he was for 72 million dollars over the duration of his sox career so far. If you told me 6 years ago he was gonna have 180 homers, 600 rbis and a 131 wRC+ over the next six years I'd have been more than ecstatic.

Jack, sometimes you say things that I just can't comprehend. Saying he'll have a lot of seasons between 33-39 but never 40 makes zero sense.

jose signs 1 year 12 mill this year becomes player manager in 2021. 2022 - Team is bad - Jose promoted to GM to get him out of manager position 2024 - Jose promoted to President of Baseball Operations, and will report to Nick Hostetler, Foreign Minister of Baseball Operations (who reports to Rick Hahn Senior Chairman of Baseball Operations, who of course reports to KW - Senior Managing Chairman-President of Baseball Operations).

This is Caulfield level projecting, man.

You post like everyone in your life ignores you.

It just really baffles me, because I'm definitely a pro-Sabermetrics guy, but the advanced metrics love Abreu's batted ball profile. So when people don't like Abreu, it's not really an advanced stats versus traditional stats thing. It's just a matter of whether the advanced stats people are actually researching him, or are just looking at one number (generally his WAR or his wRC+) for confirmation bias without actually diving into his contact profile

Except we are talking about Jose Abreu being a DH next year. What defensive stats should I reference for a DH, ron? Please enlighten us

How is comparing OPS+ to OPS+ comparing apples to oranges?

The baseball glove taped to first base.

Jose Abreu now has a higher 2019 OPS+ than Javier Baez what does Soxtalk think about that

Giolito is now 4th in fWAR amongst starters and his K per 9 rate of 11.5 ranks 7th overall in tier right below the absolute elite guys in Cole, Scherzer, & Verlander. If he’s not an ace, I’d argue there are only three of them in baseball.

@vilehoopster would be handing Ricky a lifetime contract after these comments if he was the owner

Yikes. So give him a bunch of money to hold a roster spot when his replacement is already in the minors when this team should be really good because of his "clubhouse presence". There is no way he should get more than a 2 year deal with options.

Some of us would disagree and say today's comments are total class in rewarding a loyal soldier who can hit the baseball and also lead by word and deed. Congrats Jose on lifetime deal with Sox.

Yes, because Passan was talking about right fielders, not first basemen / DH types.

It is in fact the specific reason WHY I don't visit game threads.

Actually I could have written Vile's post. I agree with him completely. You seem so sure of yourself Tony about Abreu. Sentiment and outdated stats. How the hell are RBIs and home runs outdated stats? Abreu is piling up RBIs and home runs. I'm assuming the RBIs are worthless because it's all luck. Some players aren't up with men on base; some like Abreu apparently are up with runners on base. I think that's a pretty weak argument if that's it. Finally ... I think it's pretty sad of you to blast Vile for that post. What the hell is wrong with his post? He wants Abreu to get 12 mill a year for 3 years; I want him to get 12 mill a year for two years and a third year club option. It's not like we're asking John Jay to get this contract. You advanced stat lovers seem convinced Jose is on some sort of majestic decline when he's been hot as a firecracker and is piling up the RBIs. I'd love to see one of you guys argue with Steve Stone or somebody like that about Abreu's 96 RBIs with a month to go being meh. Don't you see how most of baseball disagrees with you. The guys who played baseball 20 years ago lived for RBIs. You can't tell them RBIs are worthless. I'd love to see you argue with a George Brett or Billy Williams or Dick Allen. Those guys will never agree with some of you stat guys. In fact I'd hesitate to say Stoney would not be upset at all with Vile's last post! What in the hell is wrong with giving Abreu 12 mill a year the next two years??? Again, he's not on a John Jay track here! He's Jose Abreu, Mr Production/Leader. You act like you know "how MLB actually works." Well guess what ... clubhouse guys like Abreu are still valuable to teams whether you believe it or not. Vile has the right to his own opinion as much as you. Sad that you said "you deserve the White Sox" off his very reasonable post.

It might over a longer period. The point is it took two games for his numbers to go from sucking to pretty decent. If you can do that, there's nothing to worry about. His K rate is low, his walk rate is there (although DSL walk numbers are pretty useless), his OPS is above .800. Good enough for now. Start more serious evaluation next year at a full season affiliate.

I don't like Rick Hahn but he has been fantastic at this.

Another example of a terrific team friendly contract extension completed by Hahn. Timmy would have been arbitration eligible starting next season.

2 yrs max at a discounted price or it’s a wasted signing. Hahn has his built in excuse we got no free agents yet again, but we kept Abreu nonsense. It’s not going to fly this winter.

Baseball is an individual team sport. Thinking "clubhouse presence" is somehow significant enough to extend an aging, bad defensive player is goofy. Giving Abreu a guarenteed roster spot 3 years from now is not a good baseball move, regardless of how much you like him. Vaughn is in his first month + of professional baseball and they just spent the 3rd overall pick on him. Unless he turns into trash you can probably expect to see him in 2021 or very early 2022 based on what the Sox have been doing. There is 0 reason to guarentee Abreu a spot for 2022.

And you know what. The team will already be really good, but it will be better because of Abreu's clubhouse presence. Again, any coach in any sport talks about how important good leadership is. It's not just a meme.

Happy to be wrong. Now we need Lopez to get his ERA below 5. That would be a success.

A loyal, consistent, and outstanding player. He deserves the respect of ending his career with the White Sox and not being nickeled and dimed out of a few million dollars. I say three years and 36 millions, at least. And if he is only productive one more year (Which I absolutely doubt as he shows no signs of slowing down), he has still earned it for his loyalty, clubhouse presence, and constant and consistent production. I just don't get you guys. Some people on here are still expressing regret that we didn't sign Machado ( a complete and total dick and clubhouse cancer) for over $30 million a year for ten years. Yet you want to insult a loyal warrior and get him to sign for only two years for less than 20 million for both years. I don't get it. Right now, Abreu has two more home runs than Machado, 25 more RBIs and a better OPS than Machado. I don't begin to get it.

Snell got 5/$50M early this year with the same amount of control and coming off a Cy Young winning season. Severino & Nola got 4/$40 & 4/$45M respectively plus an option year (I believe both were Super 2 guys). Any deal in that range should be a no-brainer for us as long as we buy out at least one free agent year.

@Moan4Yoan famously referred to it as “regression”...

Anyone who even utters “you have to have a balance” is so far behind, it may not even be the same game anymore. Successful franchises like the Dodgers and Yankees got all of this out of their system ten years ago. There is no “old school vs. new school” debate inside baseball anymore. All reliable info is good info and it all has to be used to make good decisions, period. Well-run organizations don’t have time for this — they get everyone on the same page, and if you can’t hang, you gotta go. The Yankees and Astros are revolutionizing the relationship between talent acquisition and player development, identifying and targeting players they know they can improve, evaluating and using feedback in real-time to ensure consistent progress up the chain. They understand their own strengths so well, they are poaching other teams’ underperforming talents and fixing them in a matter of weeks. The White Sox are still trying to get their manager to figure out what order to put the players in.

This is remarkably tone deaf to what an addict goes through on a day to day basis. I'm not about to sit here and argue with you for feeling this way because clearly you have made up your mind, but it is not nearly as simple as you think it is