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Yeah! You're not only ruining this message board with your light hearted joke, but also ruining Christmas!! Enough!!!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone. I hope that you are all pleased with what "SHAHNTA" has brought us. Good Night.

There are a lot of assumptions on here about the health of the players. A few of them will surely spend time on the DL, and it’s a lot better to have the depth of actual big leaguers instead of having to use the likes of Skole.

If we add EE, we are basically replacing Engel, Cordell, Yolmer, Alonso, and McCann with Robert, Mazara, Madrigal, Encarnacion, and Grandal. I’m not a WAR expert, but my calculations say that improves our team by about 217 wins (give or take a couple).

I’m sorry, but you’ve gone off the rails with this post. Outside of Keuchel, none of our additions could even be argued as “backs-against-the-wall, win now” moves. Grandal is one of top two or three catchers in baseball and solved numerous needs for us. He was a tremendous addition even if you want to argue we’re still a year away. Gonzalez provides cheap SP depth that this team desperately needed if you followed the team at all last and does so for $6M. A guy like Mazara is the exact oppose of a “win now” move. And buying a 2 to 3 win DH for 1/$10M is the definition of efficiency. So basically you are upset that Sox spent $55M guaranteed on a low ceiling starter in Keuchel when elite guys were available and have now decided to go on this bizarre tangent where you claim everything we’ve done has railroaded our rebuild. Trying to argue blocking Collins is somehow this egregious offense is funny to me. I actually like Collins as a prospect, but he not a guy who should just be handed a job, especially with Vaughn right around the corner. Smart organizations would use him as a versatile bench piece or as minor league depth if they have any realistic chance of competing. The Yankees did not hesitate bumping a much higher regarded prospect in Frazier down to AAA to add the same 2 to 3 win DH we’re looking at now. I’m sure you’re response will be we’re not ready to compete and that’s fine if you want to make that argument. But the front office believes the clock is starting to tick with Moncada & Giolito only left with four years of control and wants to have a roster in place that can win the worst division in baseball if our young guys take big enough steps forward in their development next year. The Twins executed this such plan to perfection last year without any elite free agents and there is reason to believe we can do the same. If you’re going to be critical of our individual moves, at least do so under this lens. Just don’t argue they’ve pushed all their chips in and that they’re all win at all costs moves.

I’d go with this: Robert CF Moncada 3B Eloy LF Grandal C Encarnacion DH Abreu 1B Anderson SS Mazara RF Madrigal 2B

Santa?

God you are a joke.

Let's all remember the last time we had this silly debate about not wanting a full time DH and when we decided to go with the rotating nonsense instead of getting a legit option like Thome. This would be that again. If Encarnacion can be had for cheap on a one years deal, then it's a no-brainer.

I'm sure there are better numbers guys out there than me, but I thought I would start a thread about whether the 2020 Sox will be able to move above league average in runs scored, runs allowed, and HRs. Here were the numbers in 2019. Runs scored - Sox 708, league avg 782 Runs allowed - Sox 832, league avg 782 Home runs - Sox 182, league average 226 Why look at this? The first two numbers could be plugged into a Pythagorean projection to estimate wins and losses. The third number is pretty useless for analysis, but just fun to consider. But, since there's no real way to estimate runs scored for the new team, I'm just going to ball-park home runs as a kind of proxy. Not Sabermetrics at all, so don't crucify me. First, let's see who played in the field last year. Name G GS Inn Positions Yolmer Sanchez 149 141 1256.2 2B Leury Garcia 138 134 1158.2 CF-RF-SS-LF-2B-3B-DH Jose Abreu 125 125 1103.2 1B-DH Yoan Moncada 130 129 1095.2 3B-DH Tim Anderson 122 122 1050 SS-DH Eloy Jimenez 114 114 967.2 LF-DH James McCann 106 102 905.1 C-DH Adam Engel 86 65 608.1 CF Ryan Cordell 91 63 599.1 RF-CF-LF Welington Castillo 48 46 395 C-DH Jon Jay 45 42 364 RF-LF-DH Charlie Tilson 51 41 358.1 RF-CF-LF Ryan Goins 46 34 326.2 3B-SS-RF-1B-LF-DH Jose Rondon 45 36 314 2B-SS-3B-LF-1B-P That is a pretty pathetic lineup, wouldn't you say? There is no official DH here, just a lot of guys who took turns. Yonder Alonso had 251 plate appearances and hit 7 HRs. Let's start to compare, using a lineup the Sox might employ. CF - Garcia/Engel - (8/6) combined 14 HRs v. Luis Robert - est. 22 HRs (hit 30 in the minors last year) 3B - Moncada - 25 HRs v. Moncada est. 30 HRs (more experience and hopefully more games) 1B - Abreu - 33 HRs v. Abreu est. 33 HRs (played only 125 games, and will have better support in the lineup) LF - Jimenez - 31 HRs v. Jimenez est. 40 Hrs (played only 114 games, should play more, and bat exploded at the end of the year) C - McCann/Castillo - (18/12) 30 HRs v. Grandal/McCann/Collins est. 38 HRs (25/10/3) (depends on whether the Sox sign Encarnacion; number is higher if these guys are primary DHs) DH - Alonso, et al - 7 HR (not sure how to isolate Sox DH HRs) v. Encarnacion est 32 HRs (he hit this many in only 100 games, think Sox will sign him and he could exceed this number) RF - Cordell/Jay/Tilson - (7/0/1) - 8 HR v. Mazara/Garcia/Engel (20/6/6) est 32 HRs (Garcia/Engel will also get time in other OF spots) SS - Anderson - 18 HRs v. Anderson - est 22 HRs (Anderson played in only 123 games) 2B - Sanchez 2 HR v. Madrigal est. 5 HR In 2019, these totals account for 168 of the Sox 182 HRs. 2020 estimate? 254. If the Sox get around 14 HRs from others like they did in 2019, that would move it up to 268. That would have left them 5th in baseball in 2019. I don't expect the Sox to get to that number, but I do think 250 is possible if the ball is the same and they sign Encarnacion to play DH and back up 1B. If you applied the increased rate of HRs to overall scoring (254/182 x 708) it would yield 988 runs. Not possible. The Yankees scored 943 runs on 306 HRs. The Twins scored 939 runs on 307 HRs. If you take the Yankee ratio of scoring over HRs (943/306) and multiply it by an estimated 254 Sox HRs, it would yield 782 runs, or exactly the league average last year. Of course, this is not scientific AT ALL. It's just a fun exercise to begin to look at the new Sox lineup (with the additional projection of Edwin Encarnacion) compared to last year's version. On the pitching side, let's see who the starters were. Name ERA GS R ER Ivan Nova 4.72 34 107 98 Reynaldo Lopez 5.38 33 119 110 Lucas Giolito 3.41 29 69 67 Dylan Cease 5.79 14 51 47 Dylan Covey 7.98 12 54 52 Ross Detwiler* 6.59 12 54 51 Manny Banuelos* 6.93 8 39 39 Carlos Rodon* 5.19 7 22 20 What do you have now? Lucas Giolito should remain about the same. Ivan Nova is replaced by Dallas Keuchel, who had a 3.75 ERA. Reynaldo Lopez will hopefully take a bit step forward. Gio Gonzalez and his 3.5 ERA is taking the starts of Dylan Covey, Ross Detwiler, and Manny Banuelos Dylan Cease should take a big step forward. And then we have Michael Kopech and Carlos Rodon coming back during the year to fill in and push the weakest link(s) to the bullpen if they can. We also have Grandal and his pitch framing to help out most of these pitchers. Is that going to reduce the runs allowed by 50 or more on the season? I should help a lot more than that. But a lot depends on improvements by the young pitchers and the ability of Keuchel and Gonzalez to continue at the levels they've been. This is a pretty unwieldy post, I'll admit. I just wanted to start a conversation on the overall improvements the Sox have made, and how much it will help their bottom line. It doesn't put us near the top of baseball, but it should move the team into above average territory for runs scored, runs allowed, and HRs.

I don’t think the Sox are going to trade McCann at any point this season. Why not have a position of strength? They arguably have the best catching tandem in bigs right now, it makes no sense to trade him plus even if they sign EE, they still have some flexibility at C/DH/1B.

Is there anyone in the Sox organization, who would be capable of providing adequate defense, if McCann is traded and then Grandal were injured? Neither Zavala, nor Mercedes are considered good defensive catchers. Think of it like this; If McCann were traded, then Grandal were injured, our catching tandem would be Collins and Zavala. Yikes!! No thanks.

I am stifled at why people believe that Collins is some sort of offensive juggernaut in the making. His track record doesn't imply that likely to be the case. People fall in love with the OPS I guess.

Totally upsets the lineup plans.

with his track record the Sox will trade Mc Cann just so his story isn't correct

I'm taking all of my family's presents back to K-Mart. This Christmas is OVAHHHHHH!

Take it easy, pal.

Great post. I think there’s folks around here who have never seen a winning team and are struggling with recognizing the construction of one.

I think the "all time high" phase for Collins is long gone.

Get off of soxtalk Ozzie

Wake up for the one year old, stay up to yell at the drunk crowd

Bob was also spotted in the entourage of Social Influencers in Saudi Arabia... In all seriousness, shocked that Lillian isn’t backing a left handed hitter. McCann doesn’t have to traded unless we get the exact piece we want (bullpen or young RH outfielder) we want. It’s that simple. We don’t have to give up on Collins, either. Look how long it took before Tyler Flowers became a legit big leaguer with the Braves. Catchers usually mature in their late 20s as capable receivers and game callers. It’s not an overnight process. Better to hold onto our embarrassment of riches and force another team to make an overpay if one of their top guys go down.

I am 100% not ok going into the season with Collins as the 2nd Catcher. Signing EE does in no way shape or form make McCann expendable. I have faith that Collin's bat could be an asset at DH going forward, but I have seen nothing to convince me that he is capable of handling the Catching duties in the bigs for 60+ important games in pursuit of a Wild Card or the Central Division.

OK, fine. Then find a defensive catcher and sign him to a Minor League contract, if necessary, before trading away McCann. Last year, we had two qualified Major League catchers, in McCann and Castillo. I would like at least that kind of depth, for this coming season. It can't be emphasized enough that, unlike other positions, catching already begins as a tandem unit. It's not the same as other positions, where there is a regular and then a backup, in case of injury. You start with 2 catchers, sharing the work load. I simply don't think that it's prudent to start with a tandem of Grandal and Collins. It would be fine, if Grandal doesn't get hurt. However, if he misses any significant time, you are then relying on an unproven, defensively challenged catcher, and no good defensive tandem partner. In other words, not one single qualified, proven defensive back stop. I'm sorry, but that just won't fly, in my humble opinion. Would you really want to have to rely upon Collins and Zavala as your catchers, if Grandal went on the DL?

Everyone now has to get a toy parrot and should know the Parrot's name is Edwing .

Bumgarner would've lost his fucking mind playing for the Sox with all of these hot dog celebrations

Thank God

I got your back Steve

No one knows who you are.

No reason why we couldn't have signed him to a deal worth $11.

I don't know why I thought he's been QO before. Okay, a three year deal then it is. EE is here for one year, so I wouldn't mind getting both. Load up on talent and let the cards fall where they may.

Oh that's over 2 years? my bad, I didn't catch the "2022" part buried in there, I thought that was $16 million over 1.

Yeesh, the Halos should just have kept and traded him.

I'm fine with trading for MLB ready. But, Angels would laugh in our face.

Very well said, and hard to refute. For those concerned about our best young prospects, consider that, in 2021, Vaughn could very well be the first baseman, Collins could be Grandal's back up catcher and one of Adolfo or Basabe could be sharing time in RF, with Mazara. Moreover, Mazara is only controllable for 2 years, and therefore may not even be in the mix, going forward. I'm hoping that he becomes a beast, but then the front office will be faced with the dilemma of whether, or not to sign him as a free agent. Bringing in E. E., for one year, seems like a very prudent move, at this juncture. If we're lucky, Vaughn, Adolfo, or Basabe and Collins all become part of the core, and afford the front office the financial flexibility to extend Giolito, Moncada, Robert and anyone else, whom they're concerned about ultimately losing to free agency, in their prime. It's interesting to note how some people seem to have no respect for the job that Hahn and the front office are doing. For my part, I'm quite satisfied with the overall rebuild, and am grateful that some of those, who consider Hahn an "idiot," are not running the front office. Perhaps we should try to better understand the rational behind these moves, before rejecting them, as "cheap, idiotic or desperate".

I can’t really see us adding both. I mean, financially it’s totally doable and I guess you could still get Mazara a decent amount of playing time by spelling Castellanos, Jimenez, Abreu, & Encarnación, but you’d be making a major commitment to Nicky’s ability to play a competent RF as the DH spot would be mostly blocked going forward.

? I have been as critical of this FO as anyone, but this new complaint about blocking future prospects by spending money on good players is baffling. Building up your assets by spending money you have, and have been hoarding, is exactly what they should be doing. They are building a team with depth for the first time I can remember. They are preserving their core, while allowing more time for development, and even making players earn it through competition. They are using veteran's to safeguard against the best case scenario. Just because these are foreign concepts to Sox fans doesn't make them wrong. Having too many options and potentially too many good players will always work itself out.

I would love to have EE and Castellanos but I would be stunned if they acquired both. To me it's one or the other and then move on to something like middle-late reliever

With an automated strike zone I wouldnt mind having Collins as our backup but man is his framing bad. How does Mercedes look behind the plate?

No.. McCann stays as the backup. That's all he should be anyways. People thinking he should get DH at bats were and are delusional about his skill set.. If we sign Encanacion I think Collins is traded as he has no spot in 2020 or in the future. You don't necessarily want your backup C to be a very poor defender and he'd never have DH or 1B opportunities with Vaughn and Abreu long term and Encarnacion and Abreu in 2020. Bye Collins.

That's pretty close to official without being official then. Meh. He's a win now addition when our RF is not. If they upgrade RF I'm sold

I believe Madrigal will be extended as I've said before. Rick seems to be going for it in 2020. Also, don't be surprised when Sanchez resigns for about $4 million. Sanchez & Engel with their GG defense are ideal for backup roles. They were overexposed starting all the time but have desirable skill sets in backup roles.

Once Madrigal and Robert acclimate...they and Anderson will all take a shot at #1. Madrigal is so Nellie Fox like I think eventually #2 is made for him. Just an observation...that bottom third looks kind of interesting. No more doing other stuff when the bottom third is up to bat.

So, batting average? 2016, High A: 151 wRC+ 2017: High A/AA: 130 wRC+/166wRC+ 2018: AA: 128 wRC+ 2019: AAA/MLB: 140 wRC+/77 wRC+ Looks like a dude who crushed the minors and struggled in 100 PA in the Majors. Weird because it took Nick Castellanos over 1,000 PA in the majors before he recorded an above average offensive line.

I love how after 4 hours this didn't even get a negative response. Soxtalk has really changed

Until he gets struck by lightning or some shit

Ok. As I said hes a 2.5+ WAR player with a wRC+ of 90. The more tools the less risky a prospect. Calling a guy the most risky prospect when he impacts the game in 5 ways just isnt a valid concern imo. Robert is safer than say Eloy who relies on 2 tools to carry his card.

Which is why he’s a softball coach now and not working in analytics in MLB.