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Terrible post

After 7 years straight of horrid baseball, the Sox have 10 players make their major league debuts this year, there are still only 3 teams in baseball with a better record, Yet the b****ing level stays the same.

Jesus. The McCann superfans on this site are the worst.

Can you imagine if Grandal had been the one with three catcher's interferences this year? People would be losing their minds and ripping him to shreds here.

This needs another thread. Hes been way too good to ignore. This has nothing to do with Grandal being good/bad/expensive but everything to do with James McCann has been goddam amazing and you have to maximize his performance. Figure out the grandal at bats elsewhere if need be but were talking McCann here.

Encarnacion can get lost. McCann and Grandal BOTH need to be in the lineup every day. End of story

i like both our catchers controversial i know

it doesn't need another thread. There are 50 others to choose from.

2 Posts that haven‘t aged well at all. Relax a little bit guys ?

I think nick still needs to get used to the level. He is a player who plays the game hard and takes chances. At lower levels being a bit reckless on the bases can be quite successful because the guys then get nervous and make errors. You still want him to do that but tone it down a little because big leaguers can make plays. The rule of thinking is run so that you are safe with a good throw but a perfect throw gets you because if you only run if you are 100% safe you are too passive. Madrigal still needs to find that happy medium. You want to get thrown out by a perfect throw but you don't want to get thrown out by any halfway decent throw.

fify

There was a lot of badness yesterday. I expect Madrigal to learn from this and I expect Ricky to bench him to make him learn. I also expect Jose to learn from his mistake goofing off which cost the Sox an extra base. I don't expect OTOH Grandal to learn from any of it. Also the Cordero call actually worked. He got his ground ball and Yas didn't catch it. I don't have a problem with Detwiler starting the inning either. The Sox players threw that game away and there was really nothing Ricky could have done to stop it. That all said, it was a nice showing by Cease. He's still developing and there's no way I would trade him. Let the process play out with him. Same with Kopech IMO.

Seriously, for unlawful carnal knowledge fangraphs. Bottom line is David Stearns and Farhan Zaidi have winning records and playoff success as General Managers, and Rick Hahn has one of the worst records in MLB (517-658 .440). Stearns paid Grandal to go away after last season, and Zaidi didn't consider resigning him once he became a free agent. They both had enough. Catching Records McCann 12-6 Grandal 15-11 The White Sox needed an outfielder and more pitching if they were to compete this year. Their current record is inflated by the heavy dose of garbage the COVID schedule provided. If it weren't for Abreu's recruitment of Cubans and Lucas Giolito's High School pitching coach, the Sox would have finished with yet another losing season. Williams, Hahn, Renteria and Cooper all need to go, a complete redo from top to bottom just like the Bulls are doing. Will they wait for Jerry to finally leave his role, or until this window comes and goes before finally pulling the trigger, which they should have done after 2015? Likely the latter. I have no confidence in Hahn making the moves required to bring a championship. Hahn signed Renteria twice, the second time with an extension. These Friends of Jerry are long past their expiration date.

Dunning has definitely passed Cease in terms of playoff rotation order.

McCann interferes far too much.

I second Stoney..."If Yoan comes alive, no one is gonna want to face this lineup."

McCann earned himself a night off Friday with that 2nd homer there

I don't care what anyone says. Sox need to figure out how to keep McCann on this team moving forward. Pay him like a starter even if he plays half the games. He needs to be here. He is vastly underrated and I believe he is one of the main reasons they are in first place right now.

You can make a genuine argument that the 2020 White Sox would be better with Castellanos in RF and McCann behind the plate than Grandal behind the plate and Mazara in RF. But Harper would have made this lineup one of the best in decades

I do understand why RR is not using guys for 2 innings. He would win more games if he did that but the pen is worked hard anyway and 2 inning stints make regeneration harder. I rather occasionally have an inferior reliever getting shelled and losing the game than working the pen aces hard and going into the postseason tired. Ideally you would use a quick hook and use the aces more but the sox only really have two starters who can go deep regularly (giolito and Keuchel) so the pen will be used a ton in the postseason. Winning the division would be great but the sox absolutely need a fresh pen and riding the best pen guys hard would be bad.

I would simply keep the player who has been one of the best catchers and best hitters in baseball this year and for the last 5 years

Trading Grandal would be a wonderful way to make sure a FA never signs with ever again.

Madrigal is looking like a guy who is trying WAY to hard to make an impression. He looks like he is trying to win a job he already has, and is trying to do too much. He needs to relax and let the game come to him instead of trying to force it to impress people/coaches/staff.

I am probably going to say this 100 more times this off season, but we are not going to resign McCann. Grandal is our catcher for the next three years. The sooner people grasp that, the more relaxed they will be. Take these points to heart: -McCann isn't going to resign here to be a back up. -The Sox aren't going to block Vaughn by filling up the DH/1B position by giving McCann half of a season's worth of ABs playing the position of DH/1B to try to keep him in the line up when he wasn't theoretically catching with this imaginary extension. -Forget about trading Grandal and resigning McCann. Besides this being a pretty complex dance that would involve trying to quickly put together a deal, meanwhile somehow convincing McCann that he should risk sitting around waiting while the Sox try to get a deal done, it also ignores that the Sox signed Grandal to a top of the market deal in 2019 very early in the free agency process. It would also have to include complex negotiations around how much money the Sox would retain on this deal, as the market will not look the same in 2020 as it did in 2019, especially if the market gets wind that the Sox are trying to pull this off. Grandal is still owed $18.25 million per year for, the next three years, for a total of $54.75 million. How much money would the Sox have to keep? How much would they have to pay Grandal, and how would that effect their needs to spend in RF and SP -Where is catching spending at this point versus what they will look to spend on a starting pitcher (or maybe even 2 potenitally)? Would you be happy if the Sox kept McCann, traded Grandal, and went cheap in SP? Because even if we spend in the 2020 off season, it will not look like what we did in 2020, just because of the results of COVID so far on revenues, and the fact that 2021 could also be a big revenue dud. The Sox are not going to do a crazy amount of spending and resources with catching, and going cheap on pitching, not after this year. -Do you see the Sox retaining Nomar Mazara for another year and seeing if his problems this year were health related, and not performance related? Do you see anyone in the Sox organization who is a starting RF on a playoff team in 2021? If you answered no to those questions, like 99% of Soxtalk will, then that means the Sox need to utilize resources in RF. Those resources will come with a MUCH bigger potential gain that screwing around with some McCann/Grandal dance to keep McCann and move Grandal. Again, do you really see the Sox leaving RF as a hole, while spending more money behind the plate when they already have Grandal?

Madrigal ran through a stop sign and got thrown out at home with one out. Then later in the game, he tried to advance from second to third on a grounder to SS and was thrown out easily. Both happened after he doubled. Grandal was a mess with the glove. Dropped a pop up (slightly tough play, but it popped out of his glove), couldn't stop any tough wild pitches, and on the final play of the game with bases loaded nobody out, a guy hit a dribbler to Cordero who underhanded it home and Grandal just dropped the ball...game over. It's crazy to me how bad he is with his glove sometimes for somebody who is so good at framing.

Rick Renteria Nice Guy ✅ Speaks Spanish ✅ Good at Managing Baseball ❌

A few positives from the loss: Madrigal's two doubles, especially the one to left center were hit hard. It is clear that Madrigal is going to add a lot to this line-up . Cease looked good for the first 4 innings. Abreu extended his hitting streak. Moncada appeared to have a little bit more strength and ran a bit better. McCann is now in a little bit better position with the WSox to negotiate a 3 year deal.

Wow it’s funny after one loss the sky is falling. We’re still in first place people. Lmao

Grandal would've hit that even further out of the park.

TIME TO BUMP THE MCCANN VS GRANDAL THREAD!

Gimme robo umps

I spend a lot of time in Wisconsin. There is no way Trump wasn't winning it. If any of the experts had spent any time there at all, they would have known. The entire state (aside from Madison) was basically a Trump billboard. And as for your last statement, it is hyperbole like that which makes any sort of real conversations impossible.

I'm sorry but it should be expected that the White Sox spend significantly this off-season. I'm not expecting a $150 million payroll or anything but they have close to $45 million coming off the books. They should replace that at a minimum and they'd still be a medium sized payroll. They need at least 1 starting pitcher, right field and bullpen help. It should be doable even with the "catastrophic losses".

They don't touch Abreu Supervillans.

It's more his decision making. He's taking chances like he is still playing in the PAC 12.

Yeah, I find it interesting that he's the primary scapegoat despite his two-run homer. Obviously he needed to catch that ball but it was just one of those games- Anderson got picked off, Madrigal got thrown out twice, Abreu made a dumb mistake, the list goes on. Not sure why Grandal is the only one getting a thread after it, especially when he has been playing so well lately

Literally at first glance thought the title of this thread said "McCann vs Grandal-Who would you do?" ???

For the live of me I still don't understand why Renteria pulled Heuer and Foster last night after they were cruising. They both threw 15 pitches. Sox couldn't have ridden either one for a few more outs so they didn't have to go to Marshall (another guy on borrowed time)? Minor nitpick but Renteria never lets his relievers that are in a groove go more than "planned" or whatever.

The Sox might be better off without a full time DH on the roster if they can utilize position players like Grandal, Eloy,Abreu and others to fill that role. If Vaughn absolutely rakes in the minors next year against LH and RH pitching, and does the same when he comes up to the majors, that is another story.

This is called a false choice.

No thanks. I honestly wonder if him and altuve will recover professionally. They both look completely lost

I mean there are a few guys out there that it was due for. Even Matt Foster is living on borrowed time. I like Matt Foster going forward, but as a 300 ERA plus guy? Uh, no. The loss of Bummer and failure of Herrera/Cishek are big losses for this pen. There are a LOT of young guys out there who are trying to fill rolls a bit higher than they are probably ready for, such as Cordero being the stopper of the set up guys.

Obviously the answer is a time machine to avoid signing Grandal and instead signing a 2-3 year McCann extension. But alas that ship has sailed. Trading Grandal would only be an option if the White Sox ate a portion of the contract, which they don’t normally do but especially won’t do given COVID revenue losses. So the answer is let McCann walk, hope Grandal doesn’t get benched in the playoffs again.

Love Madrigal! With that said... his base running last night may have cost the game. Both throw outs are in him.

I would love to know how some of you handle your own life outside of the White Sox. Do you get a promotion at work but stub your toe the next day and proclaim that your life sucks? One loss after we own 4 in a row and if you read this thread in a vacuum you'd think the Sox were the worst team in baseball.

The last sentence is an understatement, if they make a run in the playoffs ricky is back 100%. It think for ricky to get fired it would take a very bad last two weeks (like sub .400) AND and embarrassing sweep in the first round. I think even if they play .500 the last two weeks and then lose a close match in the first round most likely ricky is back. The real test for ricky is 2021 when there is a real playoff race again. I feel if the sox miss the 2021 playoffs ricky is gone.

I'll say it. Sorry for your loss. And sorry that people made a mockery of your statement. whether true or not, it still sucks that people reacted the way they did

Just got a call from my mom. She just got out of surgery for an appendectomy and she's alive but George Soros offered her $500 to say she is dead from coronavirus, so we are having a funeral for her this saturday. Anyone else hearing of this?