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I'll believe it when it's announced " White Sox have signed Liam Hendriks" and not a minute before that.

I'm the opposite.

I want Hendriks more than I have ever wanted a reliever.

I don’t think this is true.

I haven’t heard that anything is done but the Sox seem confident from what I’ve heard.

??? In response to this from CSFM: Give me ONE bold White Sox related prediction that you have for 2021. mine: Eloy Jimenez will hit 50 home runs (assuming there is a full 162 game season)

Food boys

Give me Richards over Quintana

I keep wanting to bump this topic because I want to force a move into existence.

Right, there were more pitchers who weren’t strikeouts guys, but high strikeout pitchers still existed. Koch was not one of them, and even at his highest strikeout rate, he just barely had a 2/1 SO/BB rate (2.02). That’s not good, especially for a reliever. His 1.27 WHIP that season was also far from dominant. Foulke was a more overpowering pitcher sitting in the low 90s. Obviously, I’m still pissed off about this trade, ha.

Meaning that an overpay for JR is different than an overpay for a team like the Yankees who can print money if they’d like. If we overpay and it turns out to be bad JR is gonna try and find a way to pinch pennies on another contract and less likely to commit funds when needed to somewhere else that’s all.

Just my opinion, but I think there is a difference between Chris Getz hyping up prospects in a random interview and people like James getting intel from people in the know.

Damn, was hoping he’d be back as depth for the pen. He really looked good when given the opportunity last year.

But you will also be hard pressed to find someone who maintains an era half a run worse than his FIP. Musgrove has thrown less than 500 innings in his career. There are systemic fip under and overperformers but they are rather rare and you can't say that with certainty until you have 1000+ innings. I would put way more stock into his FIP and k-bb rate than into era over an arbitrary amount of starts. In fact the highest negative FIP to era gap among active starters with 1000+ innings is Strasburg at .22. This likely means Musgroves .4 FIP to era gap is likely an artifact due to sample size and his FIP is a lot more predictive than his era.

Hope you all have a great New Year. This is probably the beginning of the best decade in White Sox history. It should be a fun ride.

Which is exactly what I have been saying. He just needs innings and he can get innings either as a starter or as a RP but prepare him as a RP. We shouldn't get hung up on the terms starter or reliever right now as long as he is prepared in the same way for whatever he does. Don't pitch him on consecutive days at all this year. Get his legs strong. Maybe even pitch him every 5th day but allow him the chance to pitch multiple innings each time 2 innings, 3 , 4 or perhaps even 5 slowly over the year. It doesn't matter if he starts or comes into the game in the 2nd through 7th inning. As the year goes on at some point you let him pitch every 4th day but no more long outing maybe 2 or 3 innings max. Then maybe every 3rd day and shorter outings. Treat his year like a bell curve ramp him up to the top of the bell toward mid season then slowly ramp him down towards the end. when he might be able to give you an inning in some late season games and the playoffs. Is this a way they could treat a pitcher like Crochet ? Or am I way off base on a plan like this ? Maybe a slower build up to 5 innings and ramp him down past mid season ?

Looking at some of Keuchel’s Statcast data and other advanced metrics, it’s very clear the dude is going to regress hard next year. He should still be a solid starter and will likely outperform what projection systems expect out of him given the strength of our infield defense, but a sub 3.00 ERA is incredibly unlikely to happen next year. As such, I think I’ve convinced myself we need to add Musgrove to the mix. I’m still very high on Cease and am hopeful that with some grip / mechanical changes he can reduce the cutting effect of his 4 seamer and improve his command of the pitch, which will be critical for him to ever make the leap to TOR starter. However, until that actually happens he can’t be relied on to be more than a #5 type. With Kopech on a strict innings limit and not having pitched in two years, he can’t be counted on to be anything more than a partial back-end contributor next year. Given the fact these two arms are still works in process, adding a reliable #4 starter is an absolute must for us. And if we can add one who has #3 starter upside like Musgrove, all the better as it may help prevent against worse than expected fall-off from Dallas next year. Joe Musgrove had a very promising 2020 season, finishing with a xwOBA in the 81th percentile and pitching at what was effectively a 4 fWAR pace. Looking at his Statcast data, two things stand out as potential drivers for what was a YoY gain in performance. First & foremost, he started using his breaking balls (slider & curve) much more at the expense of his 4 seamer & cutter, which is what most damage against him was on. In 2018 he used his curve & slider a combined ~21%, in 2019 it was a combined ~32%, and finally in 2020 it was a combined ~44%. More interesting, he experienced sizable spikes in the spin rates on both of these pitches last year, which just so happens to correspond with the whiff rates on these pitches from sitting around 40% in 2019 to 50%+ in 2020. In aggregate, these changes led to a whiff rate of 33% in 2020, which reflects an 8.3 point improvement vs. 2019. That’s absolute insanity and makes him a completely different pitcher if sustainable. Now, therein lies the crux of the problem. Did Musgrove & the Pirates push for changes to his pitch usage and other things that could have improved the spin rates on his breaking balls? I obviously have no idea and given this is an eight game sample we’re looking at, it’s not a slam dunk that this version of Musgrove is sustainable over a 32 start season. That being said, for the right price, I’m willing to find out. If the Pirates are willing to accept a package along the lines of Thompson, Adolfo, & Beard (for all I know that may be way too light) I think I’d go ahead and pull the trigger. At worst he should be a solid #4 type, but the potential is there for him to leap frog Keuchel and become our #3 starter, which come October could be the difference between winning and losing a playoff series.

Child, please. The White Sox, and any sane fan would want any of these three pitchers. The Darvish/Caratini trade would have filled two holes for little in prospect value. Snell required a higher prospect quality, but not their top guys. They are also under control for years. Every pitcher on the planet is a potential injury risk.

No. All 3 of those pitchers have legitimate injury concerns. It's likely that at least one gets injured. For all the praise they have gotten, they have a very volatile starting rotation.

Exactly. If you added up just the last 2 years of the wasted money on free agents. The risk doesn't seem that big in my opinion.

Just remember.. before he blows up, I was on the Rodriguez bandwagon long before anyone else.

Thanks for saving me time of citing stats, lol. I was pissed when that trade was made because not only was Keith Foulke my favorite pitcher at the time, he was the superior reliever. The most value Koch provided in his “good” season in 2002 was his amount of appearances and innings, which most likely led to his massive drop in velocity the next season with the Sox. All his other numbers were very pedestrian.

Especially with their projected pitching staff. I wonder if Bailey will be stateside this year.

Billy Koch was never good.

Kluber is getting a one year deal.

Jerry is not going beyond 5 years for a game-changing SP, so outside of Springer this is the next best option IMO.

Sean Lowe FTW

That means nothing. They were also "confident" right before Machado signed with the Padres.

The Sox will probably have to overpay to get it done but I don’t really care.

At this point I’m expecting something around 4/$50M getting agreed to next week.

Well the assumption he is responding to has Hendriks signing. But it will be unfortunate for those thinking 2016 Q is walking thru that door

Dumbest post I have seen on this site. You’re comparing a player who has never played that position at the pro level to a MLB pitcher who has shown moderate success at his position.

Also importantly, Caratini has a great partnership with Darvish and in the 98th percentile for framing. SD has undertaken a big change from Hedges/Mejia to Nola/Caratini, and it has made their offense even tougher...where there are no longer any easy sections of the lineup to negotiate. In the end, though, starting pitching is the one area that takes on outsized importance in the playoffs. If you look at variability in that rotation, Paddack with much less pressure on his shoulders could easily take another step forward. When you can roll out the best starting pitching prospect in Gore at #5, you’re in pretty good position. They have five starters along with Clevinger capable of finishing Top 5-10 in NL Cy Young balloting over the next 2-3 years. That’s not even considering Morejon and Weathers.

Anyone else still do New Years Rockin Eve? -So why is Nelly doing his greatest hits on New Years Rockin Eve? Hey, must need the money! -Looks like Cindy Lauper and Billy Porter and going to take home the award for cringiest NYE performance this year. -The Carlton rules This is the commercial of the year

We did.

I like how someone praised you as being a voice of reason. You're lying to yourself and you know it. Let's go over your tiring shtick. 1. Present me an argument full of logical fallacies and/or black and white statements and ignore actual details. 2. I respond with a reasoned argument that points out clear details you ignore. 3. You say I'm "too stupid to argue with" and disappear. 4. Reappear to argue with me again on another thread. 5. Repeat. This is now the second time you have literally called me "too stupid to argue with" (have you earned a warning yet?). I so look forward to the 3rd time you argue with me anyway. The empty insult is the giveaway that you have nothing of further value to say and have conceded but can't do it with dignity. If you really think bad attitudes can't have a bad effect on a team, you're literally lacking common sense on this issue and obviously haven't been a Sox fan very long as we went through a clubhouse ordeal only a few years ago ourselves. You responded likely too quickly to have even processed what I said anyway. Another ragequit; I look forward to your next.

Yes he could suck. He could also be a 4 WAR pitcher next year. You know what we know about him? He came up, could throw strikes, and had the stuff to get outs. He looked like a solid major league starter. He will never be Max Scherzer, I can promise that. Yes he could suck, he could also be an all star the next 6 seasons in a row. The odds of him sucking and being out of baseball in 2 years seem very low, as are the odds of him being an every year all star. But if he doesn’t get hurt again, and Texas controls his innings, there is a very good chance he’s a solid starter for 6 Rangers seasons.

The worst? The worst what? We're gonna add pointless hyperbole for theatrical effect to compensate for poor arguments now? You listed Ty Cobb and other HOFs who had personality quirks to defend Bauer. If you can't understand the difference between them and Bauer I can't help you. Winning tends to have a slightly different effect than not winning and even then, it's a team sport. You keep presenting black and white arguments and ignoring key differences in your comparisons while constantly insulting my intelligence. You really need to tone it down. Bauer and his Cy Young =/= Ty freaking Cobb. You are listing HOFs to defend Bauer yet in the same breath seemingly can't understand why I'm analyzing your very own comparison as if you never made it.. Not sure where the disconnect and density comes from. Saying bad behavior and bad attitudes can hurt chemistry and affect a team negatively isn't idiotic, it's common fucking sense.

You are the WORST...No one ever made the argument that Bauer is as good as Ty Cobb...except you. I gave half a dozen examples of dicks that won WS from AJ to Ty Cobb to Aaron Rogers to Isiah Thomas. You have offered ZERO counter examples. I think it would not be hard to find one ass in every group of 25 professional athletes so the idea that signing Bauer and his Cy Young award would hurt the team because...chemistry...is just idiotic.

I have no idea why you think these guys are all suddenly going to be elite prospects. Three of the guys have never even played baseball in the U.S. Is it in the range of outcomes? Possibly, because these guys all have high ceilings, but the game is filled with prospects like this and the hit rates are fairly low. Hoyer took these prospects because the elite guys, more proven guys were probably off limits and given where their rebuild is heading, he’s able to gamble on kids that are years away. I think you’re giving Hoyer way too much credit here, he simply made the best he could out of a shit hand he was dealt due to the Ricketts’ poor financial situation.

The argument shouldn't be "should the White Sox trade from organizational depth" it should be when and for whom. I know I'm a broken record but Musgrove Sept 26th, 2020 his greatest game ever by game score against Indians...who had already clinched a playoff spot, bottom 5 offense and Pirates got 8 runs in first 4. Sept 20th, 2020--his second greatest game score of his career against Cards...Sunday afternoon game after Saturday night game and the Cards were playing their TENTH road game in 7 days (three doubleheaders that week). Previous 32 starts 5.28 ERA. You really want to throw THREE assets including a top 6 prospect for that???? Sign Q for money only....let the young players improve their value in minors until trade deadline...see how our young major league pitchers are developing and then trade them for someone actually good from a team that is bad or is imploding...Castillo from the Reds, Bieber from the Indians, deGroom from the Mets or like that.

Don't be so pessimistic. Every time we discuss a player the Sox sign, or trade for, regardless if it's keeping someone like Abreu or signing Eaton the issue of age comes up in a negative way. Eaton is a solid player and experienced

Stupid as a fox IMO. One of them happens to be a complete and total creep who has his creepy fingers in who knows how many dirty places. He'll walk away with a pre-emptive pardon. The other one is setting her self up for book deals, conspiracy website traffic, who knows what else, and both are going to end up forever in the good graces of a billionaire whose moral compass only points to people who like him enough to tell lies for him. What you see IMO is typical of cling-ons around people with tons of money and power. That said, all the fake rumor people are dipshits, and in their cases, as attorneys or not, I would not dispute that they are both insane and stupid.

Im not sure if you've been watching the news lately, but it turns out many attorneys are completely insane and are so stupid that I wouldn't hire them to answer phones for my assistant.

A Hard Salary Cap might, and only mean might even things and create more parity. There is a luxury tax that doesn't seem to stop The Met's, Boston, Dodger, Angels etc. Hockey and the NBA are the toughest. Exceptions to sign your own free agents is a good thing to give more years and money. The White Sox will not go into the luxury tax until this Covid is over and fans can return. Even when there was no covid we don't draw 3 million like we need to do to have JR open his wallet. Hendricks/Colome and Bauer along with Brantley should still be targets. A Brantley/Colome combo may be more realistic. We can afford that pair. Bauer may want to go home to California(Angels) or the Mets will make a Godfather offer. Hendricks i believe will get a 4 year 55 to 60 Million offer from someone. No Closer today is woth that much. Would i spend Jerry's money and give it to him?? Hell yeah because its not my money and i want to win!!! This is a Hendricks forum so he needs to get his props. Colome at 20 milllion for 2 years with Brantley/Ozuna or another good starter would be a nice conselation prize. A Happy and HealthyNew Year to everyone!!!! We will be in the playoffs just standing pat. But i want to it all!! We need a few more pieces to complete the puzzle, almost there though.

It's a clear way of demonstrating the continued failure of our government, especially at the federal level, that has led to massive death and suffering. Will it continue at this pace? There is reason to hope it won't. But that doesn't excuse the ongoing failures that are causing more people to die every day. I don't think mass death events are hilarious. I don't think repeated failure to take available steps to prevent more deaths is hilarious. I think the people who continue to fail and continue to get thousands of Americans killed every single day should be held accountable.

Why punish anyone for crimes since some people may have gotten away them?

Whenever I get impatient about signing someone early...I remind myself of Adam Dunn (Dec. 2nd) and Adam LaRoche (Nov. 25th) signing early.

The White Sox were 16th last year and slightly above the average. What constitutes a normal team.