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Grandal isn't even close to the worst FA in Sox history.

AJ Pollock has a 48 wRC+, it was one of the most fortunate things to happen to the sox in my lifetime. But a continued trend of Hahn buying players just as they are about to implode and end their career.

sounds like the ramblings of a drunk moron. you can get that for free from me. none of his points have much basis in reality.

A body to fill in once the big pieces get shipped out.

This is an absolute crock of s%*#. The Indians, Twins, Brewers, Rays, f***, the Marlins, have way harsher payroll restrictions than the Sox and have had way more success than the Sox/Hahn. Not being able to sign a player for 300 million doesn’t mean consistent winners can’t happen. Far from it.

Ok. Reread my post and pretend that when I said "Hahn is gone" it means that "Hahn is gone from the position of GM". People leave this place because there are professional arguers here. Just a bunch of lawyers waiting to pounce. I'm just pointing out that as an avid Chuck pod listener, he is a new kind of negative here. Which is welcomed. And I think it is reasonable to speculate that now, after plenty of bad times where he still carried plenty of water, if it means that he knows something???? that's all.

If Balta is offering counterpoints that defend the Sox, you know the original argument is pretty weak

Because saber is doing us so good now? The rumors of clubhouse turmoil/indifference have been running rampant for the last few years, basically since Ricky was fired. This team doesn't need fucking saber, they need leadership, accountability, benchings for poor effort, insistence on playing if you're just a lil' sore, etc. Ozzie, for all his faults, is THAT guy. Not to mention, if you listen to the pod, it's some of the Latino players who are least invested....Ozzie would be in their asses.

To use Chuck's phrasing, the Sox "have lost Moncada". In context, I took it to mean he wants nothing to do with the team, doesn't try in the least, and seemed to be hinting at him being a clubhouse cancer. They had similar comments regarding Eloy.

Remember AJ Pollock declining his option and taking less money? He must have hated being a Sox and many in that locker room probably wish they had an escape too.

Was listening to Ozzie on the score… While I’ve always found it laughable bringing him back because Ozzie’s latter years were rough… Its not lost on me that he may be the only person with ties to the org that actually holds them to high standards.

I find the stuff about Moncada and Anderson just strange. Moncada gets hurt, the team states that it is relatively minor, and he will miss a couple days. Then he disappears for about a month. A team doesn't have to tell fans everything about injuries, but the things surrounding Moncada don't add up. What has happened to Anderson? Has he lost his skills? Is he playing hurt? No HRs at the ASB? Average in the low .200s? Whatever has happened to him, he doesn't belong at the top of the order. There are plenty of things wrong with the White Sox, and I bet we fans don't know the half of it.

Hahn missed that window a few years ago when he didn't resign after his POS owner went over his head and hired his drunk buddy TRL.

They are going to need warm bodies once Giolito, Lynn, Lopez, Kelly, Middleton, and Graveman are all moved.

Jersey designs and that's basically it

They were never serious about signing Harper or Machado. It was all a dog and pony show from the get go. Hahn knew the money wouold never be spent on a premium free agent but he couldn't come out and say that publicly. Any talk of accountability for the current shitshow is all smoke and mirrors as well. No one in the front office is going to be held accountable as long as the Sox continue to turn a profit. Sox are a straight up chicken-s%*# organization and we as fans are screwed six ways from Sunday.

Counterpoints: Adam Dunn was paid $50 million and p it up precisely 0 fWAR over 4 seasons. Grandal has put up 5 fWAR over 3 seasons for about $60 million. Grandal has been far better. Neither of these match the $13 million we paid for -1.2 fWAR from LaRoche. This is recency bias. Stop saying accountability and say the failure need fired. Colas shouldn’t have even given the job nor Sosa, but that was literally the only way they could keep up the illusion of a full lineup. They couldn’t compete for good FAs at positions they needed and even had to backload the deals for Benintendi and Clevinger just to get them signed, the only other option was to admit how bad the situation was after they held all their pieces at the deadline last year. Bringing these guys up still allowed Hahns apologists to fantasize that the White Sox weren’t destined to flop. While rushing these guys is a problem, it is a minor one and a symptom of the much deeper rot. Signing Harper would Have helped and been a big factor in 2021 and 2022. But it would not have solved the much bigger problems with development and scouting. Not sure I care about the Grifol stuff. This was a clearly bad team coming into the year. The best coach in baseball history would still have a bad team with poor chemistry. Moncada did produce some. In fact he has quite a bit more production than Beckham, or the top pitchers from that 2000 system in Wells and Rauch. There’s also some recency bias here, although I’m ok with an argument since Moncada was a number 1 overall prospect.

Dropped on You Tube. Highly recommend it. They take Sox fan questions and the answers are brutally honest from him and McGuffy. Among the "highlights": *Grandal is the worst free agent signing in Sox history (Even worse than Dunn) *Moncada is the biggest bust in Sox history *When the trades are made in a few weeks Garfein wants accountability from the front office *Grifol hasn't delivered what he said he was going to bring to this team *Anderson should not be batting first or second and that falls on Grifol *Colas should not have been "given" the right field job. Sox should have signed someone. *Rebuild has failed in part because Hahn wasn't allowed to finish the job (i.e. signing Harper) *White Sox have zero leadership and there are issues in the clubhouse among the regular players. No team chemistry Part II with more fan questions (Garfein said he got 2,000 responses) drops Thursday

You want to see an amazing comp on Free Agent spending? It’s the Astros. The Astros have signed 1 free agent contract of nine figures- to Carlos Lee in 2006. The entire time they have been title contenders, they haven’t signed a $100 million free agent. They have signed a $150 million deal - to keep Altuve, and another $115 for Yordan and $100 million for Bregman. So; they have signed some extensions to hold their team together, but they have been prudent in free agency under 2 different GMs. What they have done instead is have a constant supply of young talent; they’ve had a top 5 ROY finisher each of the last 5 years, despite being low in the first round all the time. They have guys like Framber that they signed internationally, they made some trades for guys who were close to FA, but because they were effective in scouting and development they haven’t needed big FAs, and they’ve had enough talent coming up that they can afford too let Correa and Springer and others walk. They have had a lower payroll than the White Sox the last 2 years.

Hahn hasn’t failed because of budget constraints

Yeah maybe very low end of a front office. Why in the world would 29 other owners ever hire Hahn? Typical Owner's checklist of key questions and criteria for hiring a GM: 1. Can you handle a complete teardown rebuild and be successful building the club to a competitive playoff team knocking on the door of a World Series in 5-6 years after the start of the rebuild? 2. Can you mange a large player payroll that will be the upper third of the league? 3. Are you good at drafting? 4. Do you have a solid and successful scouting dept? 5. Do you have a strong player development blueprint? 6. Have you been able to maintain a top third farm system after initially having the #1 farm system from all the initial rebuild trades? At some point once you bring all the top prospects up, you need to replenish the farm system with continued talent for the future. Where is your current farm ranked? 7. Are you good at signing productive free agents? 8. Are you good at hiring managers? 9. What is your current record and lifetime record? How successful have you been in the playoffs? 9. Are you good at building a strong team culture> Please tell me what owner is dumber than Jerry and would give this guy a high level executive position after he is fired?

Just pathetic, what else can one say.

I get why they did this of course but big picture what does it say about the organization that six years after the rebuild started in a so-called "window of contention' they are having to resort to picking up stiffs, has been's, flotsam and jetsam because they have no one else available or ready in their own minor league system. ?

I cant help but think marriage is the leading cause of divorce

Can never have too many Royals.

EXACTLY how i see this as well

Two franchises that really know what they are doing making another smart move on the margins. Stay winning.

Botching Giolito is easy. Don’t move him.

lol f*** off, defending a piece of s%*# who cheated on his wife, you're the tool buddy

Unfortunately, not making moves is making moves, or at least dictating them. If they don’t make moves, Giolito walks as a FA, Kelly walks as a FA, Lopez walks as a FA, they don’t clear any money so their budget next offseason stays super tight, and they find no depth to help next years roster which they are absolutely desperate for. Not very active makes a ton of decisions for the winter right now - even worse than last offseason.

the bolded. if it wasn't apparent by my comment. "Wait he admitted this? Yikes" I've tuned out pretty much everything Sox the last few months. My only Sox news comes from Locked On Sox and Sox Machine. And to answer your question, he's garbage for cheating on his wife and getting this side piece pregnant. 100% piece of s%*#.

@Harold's Leg Lift has been suggesting that Hahn is not safe in recent threads. I'm so very much hoping he's right.

I'd say it's worse. Knowingly doing it feeding the fans BS and calling them stupid while doing so.

If he wants to keep a job in the MLB, he won't.

For free??? Who is the Soxtalk I've been paying $14.99 a month to for the last 38 months?!?

Yeah and I also am not giving them credit for offering Machado a deal they knew he was never going to accept anyways. Knowingly doing that is the same as not offering at all in my opinion.

I don't really think its that weird. Moncada has a bad back. Its bothered him all season. If you've ever dealt with any kind of back injury, you know it can be debilitating. You can be feeling better for a week, and then one weird movement and you're back to square 1. Its a brutal turn of events for the Sox and for Yoan, but back injuries can be brutal. TA is hurt. Hanser fucked his knee. He changed his batting mechanics and was hardly using his legs for awhile. He completely lost his swing, and now he's mentally fuc*ed. I do honestly think 2023 is a lost season for Tim at this point, but I also believe he will come back in 2024 looking more like the TA we all know. Whether or not that will be with the Sox remains to be seen, but I see no good reason to trade him. The FA SS market is putrid and headlined by Ahmed Rosario, Brandon Crawford, Enrique Hernandez, Isiah Kiner-Falefa and Elvis Andrus. That alone should give TA at 1/$14M a lot more value than once might think before they look into the larger picture.

Are you all seriously arguing over the level of bad of Grandal and, also, who gets to claim knowing it more? Soxtalk gotta Soxtalk, I guess. ?

That would be the same Diekman who is now pitching better at Tampa Bay afterbeing released by the White Sox!

Chuck tries to take the negative wheel and drives right off a cliff lol.

Completely disagree. I absolutely understand why you're saying this, but I just need "different bad" at this point. Hell, let Jerry himself be the GM, I don't care. I just need anyone not named Rick Hahn for a little bit.

No 2b from OSU please.

Not a chance that Hahn is fired. He might get reassigned but the guy has a job with the Sox for life. There is really nothing for Sox fans to be positive or happy about at the moment and Chuck & Ryan are smart enough to recogize that.

Whataboutism is equally disappointing

I don't think Chuck has any more insight than we do w/ Yoan. It's clear Moncada's back is fucked up. As other posters have said, back injuries can ruin a career. Why the Sox are so cagey about this I have no idea, but they've been that way with injuries for a while now. Eloy - maybe they're right. I also bet Eloy would look a lot more like the old Eloy if the team was winning.

I've been beating the Harper drum since the banner with his name on it in the United Center. That was the point where the rebuild cracks started to show. I also don't doubt that Hahn is working with limits that hurt his ability to GM, but he's still squandered tons of money on relievers and terrible players, and our minor league system is awful and has no chance to reinforce the majors to keep the window open. That's all on him.

Yeah....I REALLY dislike Yasmani Grandal and that signing, but.....not even close to the worst signing in Sox history. Recency bias, for sure.

you know one thing that sucks about Hahn is how in a decade the only fun "buying" he did at the deadline was in 2021 with kimbrel. Despite several, ostensible, competitive years. This was obviously whiplash from KW where sox were always finding ways to add even if it wasn't for this years team. Different time a bit, but KW got away with a lot with a small farm just by looking at deadline as a way to take on salaries from embarrassing franchises. Hahn tenure: - 2013: sell year (Peavy) - 2014: Rebuilding year - 2015: competitive year but we do not buy. This is a year KW would have definitely made a buy for someone to help in 2016. - 2016: it's all falling apart, so we trade Zach Duke. - 2017: sell - 2018: sell - 2019: sell - 2020: buy year, but do nothing. The team makes the playoffs with their pitching depth about to fall off a cliff because it is so young and had no build up. - 2021: We buy relievers and the worst of the traded 2b. So many legit amazing players traded, but hostetlers s%*# drafting already showing that we could only trade major league pieces because he was so fucking bad. - 2022: We trade a DFA'able catcher to take on bad money in Diekman. - 2023: Sell Well that's a lotta fun.