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Can we start Balta and Gal their own Cease trade value thread where they can debate whether Getz takes sunflower seeds, roisin or chewing gum in return for Cease?

It's amazing how much I hate Kelenic and I don't even have anything against the guy.

Perfect cuz the Sox could compete in the KBO.

Off topic, but does anyone else get a pop up ad whenever they open a thread on this site? It’s very annoying.

Why would you throw out a player's best year, a year that was only two seasons ago, when determining his value? The sample size is only 3 years, so 33% of the same size he was elite. His floor is probably 3 WAR on a good team. His ceiling is 6+ WAR. I think for a guy who will cost very little that's worth two top 100 prospects and another lighter piece.

Anyway no reason to trash cease. You should read the prospect writer chats when he came up, everyone thought he was gonna be a bullpen pitcher. He worked his ass off to be this durable and get this much out of his arm. I hope he wins a chip somewhere. Join the alumni of sox who are contributing to other world series.

There were only 5 200 inning starters last year. You know who walked more than him? Cy Winner blake snell. But lucky for him, he (Snell) let up an absurdly low amount of hits. So you went up and were either walking or striking out, but no big damage. BABIP for him though was just .256. For Cease? .336. Now everything isn't so simple, Cease gave up harder contact this year, probably from some velocity decrease. But the stuff you are citing is just a lot of what pitchers are now. And Cease is very good among them. You don't have to tweak much, but put him in front of...like not Gavin Sheets and he's better.

You sounded like the return of Parkman. It was uncanny.

People ar acting like he was end of career John Danks.

I feel like I need to share this video which outlines the defense failing Cease against the Dodgers:

Yeah for awhile there I couldn't open up soxtalk.com in public.

Also $12 mil for a starting pitcher is not a lot.

It's looking to me like the failed rebuild will be looked at as The Golden Age of White Sox baseball. After all they made the playoffs 2 years in a row and at one point they were talking about Machado and Harper. Now we get to hear about Martin Maldonado, DeJong, Nicky Lopez and the rest of the Braves garbage. It's no wonder people are hyperventilating about a Cease trade. That trade, whenever it happens, will be the pinnacle of excitement for Sox fans this off season. Reinsdorf has run his teams into the ground thus jeopardizing their TV contract which may be the main reason for what we should all be expecting and that is a lower payroll than all but a few imagined. We've seen how many teams are cutting back due to what's happening with the Bally situation. The only big players now seem to be teams on solid footing with their TV deals. Welcome to a deeper level of fan hell than we were imagining. This is one ugly situation that Reinsdorf has created.

Hopefully it’s KC so we have a chance someday.

I'm excited to see some news but I'll admit when I saw the thread title, I did wonder what the f*** is a fedde?

Imagine this sexy rotation post Cease trade: Mike Soroka Michael Kopech Erick Fedde Touki Toussaint Jared Shuster*

If he's smart, he will sign with NYM.

But other than that he sucks

His slider in 2022 was the best pitch in Statcast history. That’s why he was so good in 2022 and I don’t know why people would expect that pitch to go away forever. He just needs to make some adjustments to get the shape of it back to what it once was.

"Also, what is their obsession with Padres players?"

He’s 8th in fWAR over the past three years. I don’t understand how our own fans are underrating him. Yes, he wasn’t his 2022 form in 2023, but he played behind a s%*# defense (-11 OAA behind him) and seems like he was dealing with some mechanical issues. The stuff was still elite and get him in a competent organization and his slider shape likely returns to form and he’s a substantially better pitcher in 2024. I guarantee teams don’t view 2023 as the norm moving forward.

Nothing against you, but of course Balta liked this post

He’s have to win the Cy Young in 24 to make $20M in 25. More like $14-15M. It’s an absolute bargain.

Do you think Mariners fans ever saw this site and went "why the f*** are Sox fans so obsessed with our outfielder that hit under .200 two years in a row and strikes out in a third of his at-bats?"

I think he's worth more than you think. I also think he's worth less than you think if it were the other way around and the Sox were trying to get someone of his ilk. I'll take what Billy Beane got for 1 year of the the Shark. i'm not too stuck on top 100 or whatever. The real top 100 list when these guys actually get to the major leagues or fail, will look pretty different from what it looks like the day Cease gets traded. Getz just can't mess it up. It's pretty much his only bullet.

I was agreeing with you?

If he was predicted to be his 2022 self for the next two years, his asking price would be much higher. Even if you get a mix of his three full seasons, his value should easily be two top 100 guys. If you assume he's going to be his 2023 version for the next two years maybe you are correct, but I'm not sure why anyone assumes that rather than assume that's his floor.

That, or they're all shitting themselves again.

Getz can't say he doesn't like this team then bring back the same players. They made the decision that they are moving on from this "core."

That was Alex Colome, not Jesus.

Jerry coming in for the kill?

Well they can. The owner just doesn’t want to.

You keep blaming velocity but his issues were related to general command and the changed shape of his slider. His reduced velocity was still 10th amongst qualified starters. His fastball was 3rd overall in Stuff+ despite the reduced velocity. However, there was a material change in his extension vs. 2022 and it’s very sensible to believe that he was dealing with some mechanical issues that altered both the shape of his slider and his ability to command it. Other teams with competent Analytics and Biometrics departments can see all this and probably already know what tweaks are needed to make a return to form. Will he ever post a 2.20 ERA again? Probably not. Will teams pay up for the 2022 version of him? Almost certainly not. But your theory he’s as valuable as Giolito was just a few months ago is plainly absurd.

Rosenthal isn’t Bob Nightengale. He reports out what he believes to be true and isn’t simply a proxy of a single biased team source. I know you want us to fail miserably in terms of a Cease trade, but this is a ridiculous reach even for you.

Is it bad that every time I see a scenario like this I have a "bless his heart" moment for the poor player coming back to us?

Eloy to the Dbacks this week is a prediction I’d like to make, just based off of what Hazen has said he’s looking for.

Balta is an AI chatbot, I'm convinced.

2 years of arbitration level salaries is still plenty valuable considering free agent pitching contracts now. I mean Lance Lynn just got $10 million for 2024 and he was atrocious this past season.

Other teams could probably make some sort of tweak and make him better than he has been too. A team like the Dodgers.

"Why does he have his own appreciation thread?"

Haha, I logged in one time on the desktop in the living room to see if there were any offseason updates and the lovely ladies that popped up were definitely noticed by my better half...."what are you viewing over there?!?"....."Just White Sox stuff, dear"

I’ve never read a more accurate Soxtalk post. Well done, Dick.

At least now it’s men shirts instead of women’s underwear…

Pretend the White Sox were trying to acquire Dylan Cease. Then you would have a totally different opinion of what he would cost. Take that price, and then take the lowball you think he's worth because he wears a White sox uniform, and split the difference. That's probably pretty close to what the White Sox will get.

I don't buy that. Two top 100 prospects, one of them really strong, is what people seem to be asking for Cease right now - that's about what I'd give up for 2022 Cease. That's not the price for a 3 WAR pitcher with 2 years of control, that's the price for a TOR pitcher. That's what I was saying we should hope for at the trade deadline last year, and if it wasn't there, you wait until the offseason and hope he has a better second half. That's the price for 2 years of a top 5 pitcher in your league. He had a worse second half. He wasn't a top 5 pitcher or even a top of the rotation pitcher in 2023. If we want to demand that price for him, I get doing so - but that's the exact thought process that has gotten me to say that he'll be with the Sox on opening day this year, because other teams can work through these numbers just as I did. To get that price for him coming off what he did in 2023, either someone will need to get desperate enough to overpay, or he will have to go out and prove that he's more 2022 Cease than 2023 Cease next year.

When he kicked the wall or whatever and missed a couple months was exactly when the Mariners went on their little run. He's got talent, he's also a complete head case. A team like the Braves can probably keep him fairly productive; I have no faith the Sox would be able to keep him healthy, let alone productive.

To think we couldn’t take on this level of salary is absolutely laughable. I’m not even a huge Kelenic fan, but he’s the exact type of talent you take a gamble on if you’re the White Sox though. We need SP innings so Gonzalez could fill a spot for a few months and you simply just release White and eat his contact.

Look at Greg all gung-ho for the rebuild!

Clearly the Braves are pulling a 200 IQ play and will now put Kelenic in the deal for the Cease trade.

Well the owner left him employed for a really long time. Starts at the top. I don’t know anything. They’ll move Cease and Eloy eventually. Make a rule 5 pick and sign some cheap free agents. Gonna be a rough year