Leaderboard

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't with Roki. They'd get flamed for not even bothering to try and sign him, but no one really expects him to choose the Sox anyways so they're (understandably) the butt of jokes because they're making a pitch.

Development windows aren't some endless period of time in which some new team can tap into what you once had. Baseball is a game that is predicated 99% on your mental makeup and about 1% on your talent. Everyone at this level is incredibly talented, and those that continue to grow/learn/develop and deal with failure are the ones that come out on top. When you fail and/or do not receive adequate development, that is lost development It's not something that can be re-found or made up again. It's similar to Jake Burger losing 3 years of development time - being a part of the White Sox developmental plan over the past decade was as damaging to a players career as tearing your Achilles twice. Crazy to think about, but that's the truth.

This is where your argument breaks down. The point, many, are trying to make is that quality teams have a pipeline of talent that usually helps support, or in some cases, carry a roster. It's not just about first round talent, and it starts from an organizational philosophy. The Twins were brought up, and for some reason you only brought up Byron Buxton. Some of the players you didn't mention were guys like Max Kepler, Jhoan Duran, Jorge Polanco, Miguel Sano, Luis Arraez, Jose Berrios...quality MLB players that were developed by the Twins. Let's stay in the division with Cleveland. Steven Kwan, Shane Bieber, Aaron Civale, Tanner Bibee, Cade Smith...etc...a pipeline of players grown in the organization that are contributors to the ML team. We can keep doing this with the Braves, Brewers, etc....Now try doing it with the White Sox. No one is saying Chris Getz is solely to blame. But he also shares some of the blame, and yet he received a fairly large promotion for his efforts.

Imagine your entire internet persona was tied to defending everything about an unqualified GM who just oversaw the worst season in MLB history. Wild times out here on the world wide web.

Poles is so getting fired

I might feel bad if they had a history of actually trying, but they have 100% earned their reputation.

Well this saves Sox fans some time.

Bears already got bags packed for off season, team just going thru the motions.

I guess by using the word "prospect" you might be correct, but Schultz/Smith have about a .1% chance of ever having a stretch of baseball as good as Garret had last year. Think both are really good, but 12.88k/2bb and 2.38 xFIP over 150 innings about as dominant as you can be.

I learned very early on in my career that when your failures are always someone else's fault, you're as much of the problem as the thing you deem to be at fault. It's true that Chris might (subjective here) have gotten subpar talent because of poor people overhead him, but he did literally nothing with it. It's not that he eeked out some fringe cases or transformed something of meaning, and more importantly it's not as if these players the Sox acquired were huge reaches. By most accounts, the marquee picks the Sox had were drafted in the slot they were expected to go. By trade I'm essentially a financial auditor. I go into broken situations with bad process, bad financials, and poor governance and I fix the unfixable. One thing in common in all these places I go is that they have bad leadership. Staff, in a lot of cases are very strong, but their guides are lost and have put them in positions to fail. Chris Getz was a guide with the White Sox, he wasn't a member of the staff. He had a chance to influence and he didn't get it done. He failed. Your job as a leader is to influence and drive positive change - regardless of the obstacles in front of you, that's your job. The staff's job is to execute that vision. Chris vision as executed by his staff has led to the least talented team in the history of the franchise. Was it just Chris' vision? No, but he's the ONLY one left here to blame and it's not because he was a good guide or leader. Analytics, for example, are a tool you can implement on your own. It's inexpensive, easily scalable, and highly personalizeable. Chris Getz himself could have established a framework for such a platform in the minors, but of course he never did because he never did anything down there.

Couldn’t that also just mean the Sox kept drafting a bunch of busts? Guys that never were going to make it anywhere?

The blame obviously goes exclusively to those who were fired.

Who prevented him from being himself?

Seems like Sox fans are down on Robert and would rather sell low. BTV has him around $13m in surplus (less then 3war/season). The prospects you get at that level would be pretty risky imo. If you hold onto him for the first half and he tears it up, then his surplus could almost triple. 4war would be $80 in value over 2.5 years with about $47.5m in cost. Its a contract year for him so I would hold at $13m in surplus value.

Even Bennetti's biggest haters have to admit he actually knew, well, words.

No, I'm pointing out he received more high end talent than the previous regimes that you're blaming for all failures.

That just seems like a major overpay by the Reds. I would think Arroyo straight up is closer to reality, imo. Reds fans are more in line with your proposal though, which is good to see.

According to Steve Stone, any team that consistently is bad, the blame is ultimately ownership. Except the White Sox, He was always a good analyst, although a bit too full of himself. I remember at a Soxfest he wouldn’t sign a ball on the sweet spot saying the guy asking for his autograph was trying to make money. I had no idea you get rich selling Steve Sone signed on the sweet spot baseballs. But now he’s just a schilling for JR.

You get what you pay for.

I was thinking about Schriffen last night. He's not very good. I didn't even care about all the times he put his foot in his mouth. Actually I thought it was a little endearing. LA PANTERA (cat sounds) is objectively funny...like why would anyone say that? it's absurd. very amusing. Everybody seems to hate him which makes me like him a little bit. It's the Carlos Boozer effect. However, his issue to me is how seemingly proud he is about his complete lack of knowledge and his reluctance to learn anything about the sport he has a full-time job talking about. I'm reading very much into some statement he made in a Guardians game, he was talking about Kyle Manzardo and got the scouting report completely wrong, then later in the game, when talking about Sox prospects, he said something like, "oh yeah these nerds know so much about the minor leagues. I wish I had time to learn about all that." Dawg, I feel like it's 50% of your job to know that stuff. You have to talk about baseball for like 500 hours a year, you should figure out some stuff to talk about. Maybe talk about the baseball players, maybe pony up for a Baseball America subscription. that Bill VEEEK remark too. Buddy, if you did a modicum of preparation for this great job you have, people would not make fun of you so relentlessly. I'm also convinced he got drunk during that 9th inning rain delay in St Louis.

Yes it was mentioned by Chris Getz that the Sox have a seat at the table to pitch Sasaki, then someone afterwards took it a step further. But let's take a step back and look at this objectively. 1. The Sox history in Japan is dormant for an entire generation. We have no scouts there, and no real history of success in the far East compared to their peers. 2. The Sox international pool is in the smaller end of the pools. While the Sox may well have a large amount of money left over because they are one of the worst spending team internationally, but there already talks of teams revoking signings to be able to offer Sasaki more money than the Sox ever could. 3. 121 losses. 4. The Sox are very probably to be into Sasakis arbitration years before they hit .500 again. Even if Chris Getz somehow turns the Titanic around, we are probably now into his last year or two of control when this could be a legitimate playoff operation again. That means choosing between risking losing him for nothing or trading him to a place he didn't choose to be in. Sasaki is smart enough to know this timeline. 5. Chicago is in the middle of the country and doesn't have a particularly big Japanese population, especially when compared to all of the West Coast. Even when Iguchi was here, there really was no surge of fan base from the community. 6. The West Coast cities are 3-5 hours closer to Japan. 7. Because Sasaki has to go through the six years of control, his primary source of income will be endorsements. Between the horrible ratings the Sox have, their complete lack of significant carriage agreements on cable, and the size of the Japanese community as a proportion of the metro population, he would be looking at significantly more money in a lot of other markets. 8. Many of the other teams will be in the playoffs this year. Others are going to be in the playoff race. A 1st round playoff share would be a huge bump for a guy making league minimum. A World Series championship would about double his salary. 9. Besides a potential playoff share, a playoff appearance also means more national exposure, further opening up more endorsement chances. That's not happening in Chicago. 10. The Sox have a league wide reputation on a lack of resources for players. Despite the noise about that changes, would someone be willing to bet their formative years and the chance at a powerball sized contract on it when you KNOW other teams already have done it. 11. The Sox have a brand new manager, GM, scouts, analytics crew and pretty much every thing else, except a couple of positions. 12. Between the Sox stadium fight, and rumors of ownership changes happening, and an owner pushing 90, the team that is selling Sasaki probably won't be the one who will be around to talk about his first big contract. Even if the are, the Sox have never paid anyone more than $75 million. Do you want to sign somewhere that almost certainly not offer you a mega contact when free agency approaches, or be hoping for a new ownership group who might? Why wouldn't you just go to someone who you know will be willing to pay you when time? I am probably forgetting some things, but this is a good start.

That’s hyperbole. However, unsurprisingly, Julks sucks and is a DFA candidate. I’m surprised he’s even still on the roster.

I don't disagree with either of you, the mocking is well earned/deserved. Just pointing out we'd also torch them for not trying too.

Aikman has been rightfully critical of Williams. Usually we get the 3rd string announcers who hold back, but this game has really shown how far off he is. Caleb looks terrible. If he doesn’t drastically improve next season, we may need to have some uncomfortable questions about his future.

Not sure why you engage with the same 5 posters for over a year over the same argument... No minds are being changed. They blame Getz everything. This is the same group that thought the Corey Julks trade was the end of the world and a fireable offense because they gave away Luis Rodriguez. We are about a page and a half from you and SS2K doing the whole “Getz should have known Moncada, Robert, and Eloy would be hurt within the first month” back and forth I have read 5,000 times.

If they weren’t such a joke of a team with a joke of an owner, they’d have a chance at signing international players like Sasaki, but they have neglected this area for years and aren’t a desirable location to land in. The Sox made their bed and now they get to lay in it.

It would probably help if the A's weren't wildly outspending them going into a AAA stadium for three years.

Draft: Drafted by the Milwaukee Brewers in the 4th round of the 2016 MLB June Amateur Draft from Saint Mary's College of California (Moraga, CA). High School: Centennial HS (Bakersfield, CA) School: Saint Mary's College of California (Moraga, CA) Pretty sure Bakersfield was even a Giants' farm team in the California League, too. Dodgers as well.

When all is said and done this will simply be another opportunity for the Sox organization to say, "we had a seat at the table...we tried..." without any real chance to succeed.

I mean, everyone could have seen this coming. This is not an NFL line, 72 should not be starting under any circumstance. But here we are.

Bellinger is the CFer there...definitely not Santander. He would push Judge back to RF in NY.

That was my assumption as well. But I could see some confusion when one is posting it on a Sox message board.

I’m sure Bannister understands this but I’m sure he also thinks it sucks that Jerry won’t extend any of them. Crochet is only 25 and age-wise, he fits their competitive window. Money-wise to Jerry, he does not.

The smart play is to hold onto him and hope he has a great an injury free first half. The problem is the guy has done nothing but let me down, so I don't know if I think it's possible.

Minnesota? Byron Buxton just played 102 games this season. The first time he's played more than 100 since 2017. As you imply, that's a failure of development. Dodgers? Half their pitching staff is out at any given time. They have to sign every single free agent because all of the players they "develop" never were developed to not get injured. Athletics?!? Sean Murphy and AJ Puk are the only positive WAR players they've drafted and put on the field in the last decade. That's sure the core of their next World Series winner!! I guess that's what "consistent" means to these kids, nowadays! LOL.

Funny how the guy who was in a so called "entry level position" was qualified to run an entire baseball franchise's front office operations after all of those failures.

And the built-in flaw in that excuse is if Getz had NOTHING to do with the failure of the organization to develop talent, then what qualifications does he have to be its GM now since he wasn't doing anything prior? Or is it a systemic flaw in the organization, from owner down, that keeps rewarding blind loyalty to mediocrity via promotions.

Imagine loving all these pitchers you help develop and having to watch them be traded because your ultimate boss is a cheap bastard.

If you have to think, you are already half a step behind.

Don't really like them as a trade partner but can't hurt to have them in the mix I guess.

I’ve got the underwear. Gonna make a run to CostCo tomorrow morning for the raspberry juice…

Enter Ryan Fuller

Under the circumstances does it even matter? Like I was told by my friend, the long time Sox front office employee, after they traded Crochet, all JR is interested in right now is having as much money as possible to give to his family and grand children.

This is sad to say but i feel more sure about RF than other positions. Slater's down year last year apparently is part concussion related but he has had good years. It's about time the Sox do a Tampa approach and straight platoon RF for a whole year. There's no savior that'll swoop in and be an every day guy

I don’t disagree, but at the end of the day we’re a top 3 metro market, who can offer him a zero pressure environment where he can develop in the majors, and can provide him the opportunity of being the face of the franchise. We won’t get him because we have allowed ourselves to become a joke, but a competent owner and front office could at least squeak themselves into the mix here.

Chris Getz was hired in October 2016. Since then, the White Sox have drafted in the top 10 three times. 2016 - Zach Collins taken at 10. He had a known hitch in his swing, and the pick was panned. That was a notoriously shallow draft. 2017 - Jake Burger at 11. Tore his Achilles tendon twice. 2018 - Nick Madrigal at 4. Spent one full season in the minors. He hit .300 for the White Sox before being traded for being injured too often. 2019 - Andrew Vaughn at 3. He had 245 PAs in minor league ball before being promoted to the bigs. 2020 - Garret Crochet at 11. Skipped the minors. 2021 - Colson Montgomery at 22. Was a top 20 in the game prospect before injuries at AA. Still top 50. 2022 - Noah Schultz at 26. Top 20 in the game prospect. I'm not sure what you're arguing, here. You're not even correct with your assertions about Chris Getz' tenure. Eloy, Yoan, Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Kopech all were promoted to the bigs. Are you saying that Cease wasn't developed?

I could have, but I've been pretty deep in the bottle lately.

The 2024 international bonus pool period does not end until December 15. Currently, the Los Angeles Dodgers and Baltimore Orioles have the most money available, but that does not mean other teams cannot trade assets to acquire more money from other teams. And if the posting process isn't completed by December 15, Sasaki would be signed as a part of the 2025 class, meaning every team would have its maximum allotment of money to spend. 1. LAD 2. Mets Cohen 3. Cubs Imanaga/Suzuki, not so much Fukudome "The Chicago Cubs recently sent president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer to Japan on a scouting trip to show Sasaki's camp that they mean business. And why wouldn't they? Chicago wants a rotation upgrade but doesn't want to spend for Burnes, Max Fried or Blake Snell, and Sasaki fits the bill perfectly. Plus, the team's recent success with Japanese players including Shota Imanaga and Seiya Suzuki will likely help their case with Sasaki." 4. Orioles, desperately need an ace to replace Burnes, most money in current signing period avail 5. Padres SoCal and Darvish, lost Musgrove to TJS White Sox can't even afford the airfare to send a contingent to Japan...