Robertson to WASH was close, now at stalemate

[ptatc]

I think they will challenge for worst offense in baseball. They'll hit some homers because of Frazier and Abreu. They won't be on base often enough to sustain anything though. They have a #1 starter. A #3 starter (with tremendous upside) 2 #5 starters and Shields who is probably toast.

The offense won't be that bad. There will be 6-7 teams which score fewer runs. They have 4-5 professional hitters.

 

I agree with the starters except Gonzalez is closer to a 4 than 5. Hopefully, Rodon improves again and can be a 2. It's still decent. Don't forget the pen which will probably be the default strength of the team.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The offense won't be that bad. There will be 6-7 teams which score fewer runs. They have 4-5 professional hitters.

 

I agree with the starters except Gonzalez is closer to a 4 than 5. Hopefully, Rodon improves again and can be a 2. It's still decent. Don't forget the pen which will probably be the default strength of the team.

 

 

Which offenses are worse?

[ptatc]

Which offenses are worse?

Off the top of my head San Diego, Atlanta and Philadelphia, Oakland. I'm sure once I look closely there will be a few others as well.

 

edit: Probably Milwaukee and Miami too.

Edited February 9, 2017 by ptatc

[Y2Jimmy0]

Off the top of my head San Diego, Atlanta and Philadelphia, Oakland. I'm sure once I look closely there will be a few others as well.

 

 

It's obviously not the only measure but check out how bad fan graphs thinks they are: http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?...LL&teamid=4

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Off the top of my head San Diego, Atlanta and Philadelphia, Oakland. I'm sure once I look closely there will be a few others as well.

 

edit: Probably Milwaukee and Miami too.

 

 

Miami is definitely better than the Sox. San Diego and Philadelphia are the only ones that are definitely worse IMO.

 

1. Anderson SS

2. Abreu 1B

3. Cabrera LF

4. Frazier 3B

5. Davidson DH

6. Lawrie 2B

7. Garcia RF

8. Soto C

9. Tilson CF

 

That's a bad offense.

[shipps]

Miami is definitely better than the Sox. San Diego and Philadelphia are the only ones that are definitely worse IMO.

 

1. Anderson SS

2. Abreu 1B

3. Cabrera LF

4. Frazier 3B

5. Davidson DH

6. Lawrie 2B

7. Garcia RF

8. Soto C

9. Tilson CF

 

That's a bad offense.

 

Yes and if any of 2-4 on the list go down its bottom 3 worst in the league.

[ptatc]

Miami is definitely better than the Sox. San Diego and Philadelphia are the only ones that are definitely worse IMO.

 

1. Anderson SS

2. Abreu 1B

3. Cabrera LF

4. Frazier 3B

5. Davidson DH

6. Lawrie 2B

7. Garcia RF

8. Soto C

9. Tilson CF

 

That's a bad offense.

I would put Atlanta in the group as well. Miami probably is better. However, as I said they will not be the worst offense in MLB. I'm still predicting there will be at least 5 teams that score fewer runs than the Sox.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I think Philadelphia will be better than the Sox too.

[OmarComing25]

I see 3 or 4 teams that could very well only have 50 something wins. I just don't see the Sox as that depleted. They have a below average offense, and assuming Quintana stays, they may hold their own as as average, or slightly below average staff. Infield defense should be solid, outfield defense not so much. That isn't the makings of a team that will lose 105 games IMO.

Which teams are going to have 50 something wins? The only team to lose 100 last year was Minnesota, and they greatly underperformed their run differential and Base Runs record, I doubt they come close to 103 losses again. The Rays had 68 wins but I see them doing much better this year, as they also greatly underperformed both their run differential and Base Runs. After that the worst record in the NL still had 68 wins. Of that bottom group the Padres definitely got worse but the Phillies, Braves and Reds should be improved. Oakland is the only other team in the AL that I think could challenge us for the bottom spot though I think their rotation has the potential to be pretty good, so I'd put them above us too. They don't need to lose 105 games to be one of the 5 worst teams in baseball, 95 losses last year would have been enough for the 2nd pick in the draft.

Edited February 9, 2017 by OmarComing25

[fathom]

The more I think about it, the more I think Hahn is making a big blunder keeping Robertson on the roster this year. If you want to maximize Jones' value, you get him experience as a closer. Hard to imagine a contender that needs a closer giving up valuable prospects for Jones if he has no closing experience.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The more I think about it, the more I think Hahn is making a big blunder keeping Robertson on the roster this year. If you want to maximize Jones' value, you get him experience as a closer. Hard to imagine a contender that needs a closer giving up valuable prospects for Jones if he has no closing experience.

 

 

You can trade Robertson at the deadline and then auction off Nate Jones at the winter meetings.

[Bob Sacamano]

The more I think about it, the more I think Hahn is making a big blunder keeping Robertson on the roster this year. If you want to maximize Jones' value, you get him experience as a closer. Hard to imagine a contender that needs a closer giving up valuable prospects for Jones if he has no closing experience.

 

Well he can close from June/July til the end of the year and then be traded in the off-season. Not every trade has to happen now/by July.

[bmags]

The #Nats and #Whitesox appeared close to a David Robertson trade early in week but now at a stalemate as camps open http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...assic/97834948/

[GreenSox]

Miami is definitely better than the Sox. San Diego and Philadelphia are the only ones that are definitely worse IMO.

 

1. Anderson SS

2. Abreu 1B

3. Cabrera LF

4. Frazier 3B

5. Davidson DH

6. Lawrie 2B

7. Garcia RF

8. Soto C

9. Tilson CF

 

That's a bad offense.

Especially considering Cabrera, Frazier and Lawrie, and perhaps Abreu, should be on the first train out of town.

[shipps]

The #Nats and #Whitesox appeared close to a David Robertson trade early in week but now at a stalemate as camps open http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...assic/97834948/

 

Hahn is just raiding the Nats system. Honestly they would probably be smart to not deal with him anymore.LOL

[Chicago White Sox]

I saw an article from over the weekend at a Nationals fan site that suggested Kieboom & Voth for Robertson. Honestly, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat and give Nate Jones four months to close up until the deadline.

[reiks12]

Nightengale..

 

I'll believe it when one of the big boys starts tweeting about it

[elrockinMT]

Especially considering Cabrera, Frazier and Lawrie, and perhaps Abreu, should be on the first train out of town.

 

Are you real?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

??

 

While Nightengale is certainly a "big boy" I think he probably should have said someone who isn't connected to the Sox.

[southsider2k5]

The #Nats and #Whitesox appeared close to a David Robertson trade early in week but now at a stalemate as camps open http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...assic/97834948/

 

Such an odd winter for this stuff to still be active.

[GreenSox]

Are you real?

You suggest keeping those players, let their contracts run out and get nothing for them?

 

On another note, as for Robertson, his value could increase by holding onto him for a couple of months. He's likely to have a bounce back year- worth the risk unless someone offers a real intriguing prospect. They can still give Jones closing opportunities. And while closing opportunities would help Jones, there also is a risk with Jones that he simply doesnt pitch as well as his peripherals indicated he pitched last year. Hahn has a tightrope to walk- his patience is probably the correct approach with both players.

Edited February 13, 2017 by GreenSox

[steveno89]

Such an odd winter for this stuff to still be active.

 

It seems like the "stalemate" is over Robertson's contract. I'm guessing the Sox do not want to pick up much, if any, of the contract given what free agent relievers were signing for this offseason.

 

https://www.outsidepitchmlb.com/david-rober...nationals/63029

 

The rumored package of Kieboom and Voth seems fairly reasonable, but obviously I would prefer Fedde or Soto involved. Robles is not happening.

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/9/1...spects-for-2017

 

This recent article ranks Kieboom #4 ("B-") and Voth #6 ("B-") in the Nationals system. Both solid prospects in their own right, but neither have a hugely high ceiling.

 

"4) Carter Kieboom, SS, Grade B-: Age 19, first round pick in 2016 from high school in Georgia; hit .244/.323/.452 with four homers, 12 walks, 43 strikeouts in 135 at-bats in rookie ball; rookie ball stats showed more power but less batting average than anticipated, granted sample is small; expected to be a solid across-the-board hitter when he matures with more pop than typical for shortstop; strong throwing arm, may shift to third base if he loses too much range as he gets older. ETA: late 2020."

 

"6) Austin Voth, RHP, Grade B-: Age 24, fifth round pick in 2013 from University of Washington; 3.15 ERA with 133/57 K/BB in 157 innings in Triple-A, 138 hits; fastball generally 88-93 with a touch higher at times; plays up due to command and contrast with solid-average slider and change-up; whole tends to be greater than the sum of the parts here; should be workhorse fourth starter or reliable bullpen presence. ETA 2017."

 

Quality depth for our system for sure, but not the sort of prospects that I would want to eat a significant portion (or any) of Robertson's contract for

[Dominikk85]

I think they key is eating the contract.

 

Fangraphs wrote an article that Robertsons value is around 30 m the rest of his contract and he costs about 25. That means he only has 5m of surplus value which is only a minor prospect.

 

But if you eat all of the money you get 30m of surplus value which is worth a top50 to 60 prospect and maybe a little throw in on top (about 4 to 5 war of contract value).

[southsider2k5]

You suggest keeping those players, let their contracts run out and get nothing for them?

 

On another note, as for Robertson, his value could increase by holding onto him for a couple of months. He's likely to have a bounce back year- worth the risk unless someone offers a real intriguing prospect. They can still give Jones closing opportunities. And while closing opportunities would help Jones, there also is a risk with Jones that he simply doesnt pitch as well as his peripherals indicated he pitched last year. Hahn has a tightrope to walk- his patience is probably the correct approach with both players.

 

Nothing is exactly what teams are willing to pay for them. This isn't OOTP where you just put a player on the block and wait for bids to come in.

[Soxfest]

So Nats want Sox to pay most of DRob salary and give up nothing back on top of it yeah ok . Sox do not have to dump salary